Vote: Update Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement (FSA) with SFC
Dear All,
# Background
This vote is a result of the leadership committee meeting on August 12th. The full video and chat recording of the meeting can be found at https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/ink-exm-ate for full context. Big thanks to Karen from the SFC for attending the meeting and giving us such good advice.
The first goal of the membership project is to change our Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement so that it points at a file that's easier to change than the existing AUTHORS file. This is best done by using a fixed url which can then be populated by any list of people which we decide should count as members.
To start this process, I have copied the existing AUTHORS file to the url https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt to keep this vote focused, any discussion of new mechanisms, or adding non-developers should be kept out of this email chain. But please come to the chat room and lets talk about it more.
# Current FSA Language
https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/9584/2015-09-12-Inkscape-FSA-2015-05.pd... ``` Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s AUTHORS file (“Inkscape Community”). ```
# Proposed New Language
``` Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s membership list located at https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt (“Inkscape Community”). ```
# Options
* [ ] Change the FSA to use the new membership list * [ ] Do not change the FSA to point to the new list * [ ] Do something else (different language etc)
# Next Steps
On the advice of Karen, after this vote we will send the result and the new language to the SFC and they will help us with the next parts of the process to update the agreement.
Thanks everyone!
Best Regards, Martin Owens
[x] Other
I'm generally not in favor of the suggested language for a couple reasons: I don't think that we should put a specific URL in the FSA. It means that we have to update the FSA for instance if we changed website backends. I don't think the website is a good place to put the list as it lacks a sufficient mechanism to audit changes. I would suggest: Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community. A list of contributors will maintained by the Committee and posted publicly.
Practically speaking I think it would be good to keep the list in the PLC git repo and then published like meeting minutes. This way there's always an attribution to who changed the file (and hopefully a comment why). We could also obfuscate things like email addresses easier. Ted On Aug 16 2021, at 3:00 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear All,
# Background This vote is a result of the leadership committee meeting on August 12th. The full video and chat recording of the meeting can be found at https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/ink-exm-ate for full context. Big thanks to Karen from the SFC for attending the meeting and giving us such good advice.
The first goal of the membership project is to change our Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement so that it points at a file that's easier to change than the existing AUTHORS file. This is best done by using a fixed url which can then be populated by any list of people which we decide should count as members.
To start this process, I have copied the existing AUTHORS file to the url https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt to keep this vote focused, any discussion of new mechanisms, or adding non-developers should be kept out of this email chain. But please come to the chat room and lets talk about it more.
# Current FSA Language https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/9584/2015-09-12-Inkscape-FSA-2015-05.pd...
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s AUTHORS file (“Inkscape Community”).# Proposed New Language
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s membership list located at https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt (“Inkscape Community”).# Options
- [ ] Change the FSA to use the new membership list
- [ ] Do not change the FSA to point to the new list
- [ ] Do something else (different language etc)
# Next Steps On the advice of Karen, after this vote we will send the result and the new language to the SFC and they will help us with the next parts of the process to update the agreement.
Thanks everyone! Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Mon, 2021-08-16 at 15:26 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I don't think that we should put a specific URL in the FSA. It means that we have to update the FSA for instance if we changed website backends.
URLs are backend agnostic. It could even point to a list kept on gitlab, if that's what needed. The language is intended to settle a specific location where the publishing happens but not in any way it's mechanism. So long as future websites can mkdir and touch lists.txt there should be no issue with having this language in the FSA.
Practically speaking I think it would be good to keep the list in the PLC git repo and then published like meeting minutes. This way there's always an attribution to who changed the file (and hopefully a comment why). We could also obfuscate things like email addresses easier.
I don't like git because it forces a lot of work onto a committee that is already not capable enough to handle the tasks before it. Today we're struggling to get passwords into the hands of non-developers, and likewise this would put important clerical work out of reach of many possible contributors and future committee members.
But I take the point seriously about auditing. Fortunately we don't have to decide any of the specific mechanisms in this vote. To make it easier for us to get this step done and move on to the substantive discussion of mechanisms next.
Regards, Martin
Voting: [X] Change the FSA to use the new membership list
We should probably denominate these with letters like we used to. The asterisks aren't really doing it for me. ;)
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 01:41 Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
On Mon, 2021-08-16 at 15:26 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I don't think that we should put a specific URL in the FSA. It means that we have to update the FSA for instance if we changed website backends.
URLs are backend agnostic. It could even point to a list kept on gitlab, if that's what needed. The language is intended to settle a specific location where the publishing happens but not in any way it's mechanism. So long as future websites can mkdir and touch lists.txt there should be no issue with having this language in the FSA.
Practically speaking I think it would be good to keep the list in the PLC git repo and then published like meeting minutes. This way there's always an attribution to who changed the file (and hopefully a comment why). We could also obfuscate things like email addresses easier.
I don't like git because it forces a lot of work onto a committee that is already not capable enough to handle the tasks before it. Today we're struggling to get passwords into the hands of non-developers, and likewise this would put important clerical work out of reach of many possible contributors and future committee members.
But I take the point seriously about auditing. Fortunately we don't have to decide any of the specific mechanisms in this vote. To make it easier for us to get this step done and move on to the substantive discussion of mechanisms next.
Regards, Martin _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
On Aug 16 2021, at 7:41 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
On Mon, 2021-08-16 at 15:26 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I don't think that we should put a specific URL in the FSA. It means that we have to update the FSA for instance if we changed website backends.
URLs are backend agnostic. It could even point to a list kept on gitlab, if that's what needed. The language is intended to settle a specific location where the publishing happens but not in any way it's mechanism. So long as future websites can mkdir and touch lists.txt there should be no issue with having this language in the FSA.
"there should be no issue" is rude and insulting. I have an issue with it, I'm allowed to have that issue. While perhaps the example of how a URL could be complicated doesn't hold weight with you, I still do believe putting an implementation detail in the FSA is a bad idea. I'd rather it require the Committee to keep the list and post it publicly, which is what we want. Let future PLCs decide and modernize the implementation appropriately without needing to update the FSA.
Fortunately we don't have to decide any of the specific mechanisms in this vote.
I'll crop out your snippy asides and agree with you that we don't need to decide the mechanisms in this vote. And as I stated, I don't think the text should specify the mechanisms either. Ted
On Tue, 2021-08-17 at 09:00 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
"there should be no issue" is rude and insulting. I have an issue with it, I'm allowed to have that issue.
No technical issue.
I'll crop out your snippy asides and agree with you that we don't need to decide the mechanisms in this vote. And as I stated, I don't think the text should specify the mechanisms either.
I was trying to explain why it doesn't specify one.
Martin,
I vote a. 1. or first named box (ok Chris, I take the point 😉 let's use letters again)
Votes:
2. Change the FSA to use the new membership list (Martin, Chris) 0. Do not change the FSA to point to the new list 1. "... and posted publicly" (Ted) 2. "... and posted to the website" (Tav, Josh) 1. Abstain (Marc, no actual vote in the email)
Resolution:
No consensus reached for specific language, so no request for changing the FSA can be made. I'm going to try a new vote (see followup) without the url and with two specific options.
Thank for voting everyone.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Aug 16 2021, at 3:00 pm, Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear All,
# Background
This vote is a result of the leadership committee meeting on August 12th. The full video and chat recording of the meeting can be found at https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/ink-exm-ate for full context. Big thanks to Karen from the SFC for attending the meeting and giving us such good advice.
The first goal of the membership project is to change our Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement so that it points at a file that's easier to change than the existing AUTHORS file. This is best done by using a fixed url which can then be populated by any list of people which we decide should count as members.
To start this process, I have copied the existing AUTHORS file to the url https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt to keep this vote focused, any discussion of new mechanisms, or adding non-developers should be kept out of this email chain. But please come to the chat room and lets talk about it more.
# Current FSA Language
https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/9584/2015-09-12-Inkscape-FSA-2015-05.pd...
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s AUTHORS file (“Inkscape Community”).# Proposed New Language
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s membership list located at https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt (“Inkscape Community”).# Options
- [ ] Change the FSA to use the new membership list
- [ ] Do not change the FSA to point to the new list
- [ ] Do something else (different language etc)
# Next Steps
On the advice of Karen, after this vote we will send the result and the new language to the SFC and they will help us with the next parts of the process to update the agreement.
Thanks everyone!
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
I'm OK to maintain a list on the website, no specific opinion on an URL in the agreement.
The main issue I can see with website vs git is the history (with a repo we can know exactly when a name was added and by whom, + associate an email address with the commit), while a webpage is inherently static information that we have to trust (and maintain).
If not a fixed URL, we could use something like:
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community. The project shall keep a list of the contributors willing to participate in that election process publicly available on its website.
I vote [x] other.
I would not put the URL in the agreement. Either the text suggested by Mark or Ted would be fine with me.
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Marc Jeanmougin" marc@jeanmougin.fr | To: "Martin Owens" doctormo@geek-2.com, "Inkscape Board" inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 2:58:11 PM | Subject: [Inkscape-board] Re: Vote: Update Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement (FSA) with SFC | | I'm OK to maintain a list on the website, no specific opinion on an | URL | in the agreement. | | The main issue I can see with website vs git is the history (with a | repo | we can know exactly when a name was added and by whom, + associate an | email address with the commit), while a webpage is inherently static | information that we have to trust (and maintain). | | If not a fixed URL, we could use something like: | | Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to | the Inkscape community. | The project shall keep a list of the contributors willing to | participate in that election process publicly available on its | website. | | -- | Mc | | | Le 16/08/2021 à 22:00, Martin Owens a écrit : | > Dear All, | > | > # Background | > | > This vote is a result of the leadership committee meeting on August | > 12th. The full video and chat recording of the meeting can be found | > at | > https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/ink-exm-ate for full context. Big | > thanks to Karen from the SFC for attending the meeting and giving | > us | > such good advice. | > | > The first goal of the membership project is to change our Fiscal | > Sponsorship Agreement so that it points at a file that's easier to | > change than the existing AUTHORS file. This is best done by using a | > fixed url which can then be populated by any list of people which | > we | > decide should count as members. | > | > To start this process, I have copied the existing AUTHORS file to | > the | > url https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt to keep this vote | > focused, any discussion of new mechanisms, or adding non-developers | > should be kept out of this email chain. But please come to the chat | > room and lets talk about it more. | > | > # Current FSA Language | > | > https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/9584/2015-09-12-Inkscape-FSA-2015-05.pd... | > ``` | > Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors | > to | > the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals | > listed | > in the Project’s AUTHORS file (“Inkscape Community”). | > ``` | > | > # Proposed New Language | > | > ``` | > Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors | > to | > the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals | > listed | > in the Project’s membership list located at | > https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt (“Inkscape Community”). | > ``` | > | > # Options | > | > * [ ] Change the FSA to use the new membership list | > * [ ] Do not change the FSA to point to the new list | > * [ ] Do something else (different language etc) | > | > # Next Steps | > | > On the advice of Karen, after this vote we will send the result and | > the | > new language to the SFC and they will help us with the next parts | > of | > the process to update the agreement. | > | > Thanks everyone! | > | > Best Regards, Martin Owens | _______________________________________________ | Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- | inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org | To unsubscribe send an email to | inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org |
I vote other. Echoing what Tav said.
Cheers, Josh
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 1:00 PM Martin Owens doctormo@geek-2.com wrote:
Dear All,
# Background
This vote is a result of the leadership committee meeting on August 12th. The full video and chat recording of the meeting can be found at https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/ink-exm-ate for full context. Big thanks to Karen from the SFC for attending the meeting and giving us such good advice.
The first goal of the membership project is to change our Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement so that it points at a file that's easier to change than the existing AUTHORS file. This is best done by using a fixed url which can then be populated by any list of people which we decide should count as members.
To start this process, I have copied the existing AUTHORS file to the url https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt to keep this vote focused, any discussion of new mechanisms, or adding non-developers should be kept out of this email chain. But please come to the chat room and lets talk about it more.
# Current FSA Language
https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/9584/2015-09-12-Inkscape-FSA-2015-05.pd...
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s AUTHORS file (“Inkscape Community”).# Proposed New Language
Committee members (“Members”) shall be elected by the contributors to the Inkscape community, which is comprised solely of individuals listed in the Project’s membership list located at https://inkscape.org/*membership/list.txt (“Inkscape Community”).# Options
- [ ] Change the FSA to use the new membership list
- [ ] Do not change the FSA to point to the new list
- [ ] Do something else (different language etc)
# Next Steps
On the advice of Karen, after this vote we will send the result and the new language to the SFC and they will help us with the next parts of the process to update the agreement.
Thanks everyone!
Best Regards, Martin Owens _______________________________________________ Inkscape Board of Directors mailing list -- inkscape-board@lists.inkscape.org To unsubscribe send an email to inkscape-board-leave@lists.inkscape.org
participants (6)
-
C R -
Josh Andler -
Marc Jeanmougin -
Martin Owens -
tavmjong＠free.fr -
Ted Gould