There are actually lots of things (too many perhaps) being discussed at once. To simplify, our options are:
1. Finish the already-worked-on manual at flossmanuals (GPL v3) then I guess link to that from Inkscape's website 2. Rewrite the content, because while GPL v3 works great for Inkscape and floss code, it's not that great for manuals, which are not code. This is why there are different Copyleft licenses that the FSF produced for user produced content like manuals (it would be better to use one of those instead, if we are going the copeleft approach). Hacking and rewording the GPL to try and fit manuals is/was/will always be a terrible idea, and I think we should avoid that problem by not repeating the mistakes made in the past. For example, a hacked version of the GPL that replaces the word "software" with "document" is legally incompatible with the GPLv3 for software, because they are now differently worded. Worse, any subsequent changes have to be released under the same hacked GPL license... it's absurd.
That's pretty much it. Whether we print the thing out and sell it is irrelevant. We should be talking about the content and the license for the content first. After that we can do anything else with it. Being a physical copy of content does not change anything, hardback or otherwise.
Sorry for the confusion. hope that clears it up a little.
From my perspective anyone should be able to take parts of the
official inkscape manual and: 1. Modify it, update it, correct it 2. Combine it with other teaching content (rules out GPL3, GPL2, and CC-BY-SA) 3. Use it in commercial products, or part of a compilation of manuals (Rules out CC-BY-NC-SA) 4. Use it any other way they like, because it's just tutorials for using Inkscape, and anyone who wants to learn or spread the word about Inkscape should be able to do so however they like. There's literally no wrong way to do that. :)
imho we should avoid licenses that were not made for documentation entirely (GPL anything).
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:38 PM, brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
I don't know C R.
I'm stuck on copyright, because the link Victor gave in his original post showed an image of a hardback book. Since I'm old and old fashioned, I naturally think a published hardback book probably has a copyright. I do realize there are other kinds of publishing.
I'm a little confused still, but I'm hoping Maren can clear it up soon. First we were talking about this book of tutorials. Then we realized that we should get this long awaited, much discussed, and pretty much direly needed manual off the ground. For a minute, we were all on the same page.
Then for some reason, you and Maren and Martin were discussing about using the website's gitlab account for writing something - the manual? the book? I don't know what you were discussing. I remain confused on that point. And part of that seems to involve some kind of license, whether public domain or other, I didn't catch that part.
Maren mentioned an idea she has for combining both projects, but hasn't had a lot of time lately. But soon, hopefully she can clarify.
So that's where I'm coming from.
I see a manual as part of official documention ought to have an open license, if only to facilitate allowing anyone to make future edits, so we aren't held back by needing a single author to edit it.
But a published book of tutorials -- I see that as a money-making project of a single author or maybe small team, which could only have a copyright, to get published (the old-fashioned hardback way) and make sales.
As I said, I have a hard time seeing these 2 different projects married. But I look forward to hearing Maren's idea.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 4:14 AM To: brynn Cc: Nicolas Dufour ; Maren Hachmann ; inkscape-devel ; Inkscape-Docs
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)
Is anyone discussing a copyrighted book or manual at this point? If so, let's not. It's Copyleft or Public Domain. No proprietary books or content should be included in official Inkscape documentation. We need to be able to freely revise, edit, distribute without the legal entanglements.
-C
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 8:28 AM, brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
- How does version control work for booktype?
This question will probably make more sense when you make the next post you promised from a different message. I had asked why we were talking about using gitlab and all that, if we were still focused on the FLOSS translation/manual. And you said you had an idea to present that you didn't have time at that moment.
I can't really see a marriage of these 2 projects (free manual, copyrighted book of tutorials). But I'm looking forward to hearing your proposal :-)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 1:28 PM To: Nicolas Dufour ; brynn ; C R Cc: inkscape-devel ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)
Hi Nicolas :D,
thank you!
What I would like to know (and what is now buried deep in the email stream) is:
- How does version control work for booktype? Could it be combined with
a git repository, or does it use a fully independent system? (I couldn't find a direct hint, maybe it's just using the django database to keep track of changes/edits?)
- What is the source file format of booktype? Markdown? (guessing from
the requirements for pip)
Regards, Maren
Am 01.05.2017 um 21:08 schrieb Nicolas Dufour:
Hi all,
I'm just back from two weeks away, and as the thread is very long now I didn't find time to read everything. Sorry if I'm off-topic.
Le Lundi 1 mai 2017 13h07, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3165...> a écrit :
I only wish Nicolas or Elisa could be here to give us some more in-depth
info about their server's capabilities
Not sure what you mean. Of course the Inkscape project can use the French FM server for the translation, but note that an English version also exists (http://write.flossmanuals.net/). It would probably be easier to work on the English server directly.
and their book's licencing.
If I remember correctly, the GPLv2 was the first license that was chosen when the FM project was created about 10 years ago, and some books still use it. But the server allows users to choose a different license when creating a new book (CC, GPL, PD). As for the Inkscape book, I see it's under a GPLv3. I don't know if it can be changed (and how) or not. Elisa could probably give more details.
Regards, -- Nicolas