El dom, 10-05-2015 a las 03:24 +0100, C R escribió:
YES. lol you give them what they need. Have you ever tried to open a pdf and change what's in it for a printer? It's a goddamn mess. AI files preserve all the layers, the layer names, and a lot of formatting information that makes it easy to edit. Also, some companies have software made to handle ai files in a specific way that the employees have absolutely no control over. For example the company that my company subscribes to for web services requires all web graphics be submitted in ai files because their software automates a lot based on the structure of the file. If you work in the industry, you run into these problems constantly. they are not trivial, and they often have little to do with a company's choice. Inkscape isn't visible enough to the industry (again we go back to user base) for it to be an option. The first thing they would ask is: Is it going to work with our printers, and parter companies, and what the industry expects to get our work done and get paid. if the answer is "NO!" then it's not really going to be an option.
No, that's wrong. PDF is a proper delivery format, there are special PDF variants specifically designed for press and they provide all the needs for printing a file properly. Minor mistakes can be fixed in the pre-flight software. If a preflight software is not enough, then the file should go back to its source in order to be fixed. Print shops don't have to fix files. That's an ill workflow and no serious print shop does that. Supporting AI or CDR is not mandatory for sending files to press. Although the free software stack could use some love to make the export of press-ready PDFs more straight forward, it is absolutelly possible to create industry-grade PDF files with free tools.
Most of my graphic design work goes to offset print shops, and I haven't had any problems during the last 6 or 7 years after I polished my pre-press workflow.
What about the problem of interchange formats? Let's push for open standards instead of supporting proprietary formats.
Sure, if we can agree on open standards (eventually... SVG 2), why not? Well, unless the industry doesn't support them. Then we may be a bit screwed in the same fundamental ways. ;)
On a personal level, I do push open formats. When we need an article printed, or website automated, we gotta give them what they need, not what we want them to use.
Also, what happens when there's only a handful of people working on the standards, and it takes them years (and years) to come to the full spec?
That gets harder when people use their efforts to support proprietary formats instead. A good enough implementation of proprietary formats could make the need of a proper open alternative less urgent. Supporting proprietary technologies does harm open formats. See ODF vs. DOCX and the rest of the MS XML office formats. Supporting proprietary technologies we're always a step behind. It's their format, and we have to catch up. That can never be good for free software.
I was a bit curious to see what you thought of my feature list, since you are apparently also a graphic designer. If you've lost interest, that's cool too.
Not at all. I disagree with you regarding several points, but we share the same interest of making free software better.
Regarding your feature list: 1. 2. are work in progress by Jabier, with good chances of being part of inkscape 0.92. Item 9. is also WIP afaik.
3. Would be nice. afaik is not possible at the moment because of Cairo. The workaround is taking the file to Scribus (the method I use). That works fine but the workflow could be improved a lot.
4. Agree. There's a debate about it. Apparently there's already code for that but it needs UI.
5. AFAIK It's on the radar. That would be very useful.
6. Import is possible since AI files are PDFs with some extra juice. The import is not perfect but there are some methods to get the appearance right. The imported stuff becomes RGB though. Not a show-stopper because you can use a late or intermediate binding workflow though. As I mentioned earlier, exporting shouldn't be a concern. Proper PDF support is what we need for press, not AI.
7. That would be really useful indeed.
8. If you look Illustrator closely, you'll find that all the non-vector features get rasterized by its "flattener". We don't have a tool for that, and the rasterization in the PDF exporter is flaky. You can still use manual workarounds (like moving the filtered objects to a layer and create a bitmap copy separated from the pure vector objects). It's not automatic but it gives you a great deal of control with little effort. That's what I do and the results I get are excellent and nobody in the print industry complains :-)
I'm also a professionl graphic designer with more than 15 years of experience and half of that using free software exclusively, we can share our views there.
It surprises me that you wouldn't understand the difficulties of using Inkscape in an industry dominated by Adobe products. Maybe you don't have to work for a company, or with other artists? Are you freelance only? How much of the 15 years is industry experience?
I own a small design firm. We use free software, and we hire freelancers who use free software too. We are commited to free software so we don't do things that requires the use of non-free software (like designer flash ads, for instance). But for the rest of our work, which is traditional graphic design, branding, printed stuff, large format prints, motion graphics and web, free software is enough. Not perfect, sure. But we get the job done, and none of our clients see any difference. We have some protocols to avoid the problems with proprietary formats, and they work most of the times. It's not that hard really.
Please do not mistake my questions for disrespect, I am genuinely curious. I also have respect for people who can make most of their money freelancing as well, so there is nothing "unprofessional" about freelancing in my opinion.
Sure. If if pays the bill it's technically "professional work".
Just a heads-up: working with Illustrator files is going to be high on most designer's priority list. Esp those who have worked in the field for any length of time. It's all you get from other people, customers, etc.
Not here. We use PDF as delivery format. It's good for press-ready files, and it's also good for logos, identity manuals, etc. Our clients hire us for final work, not for editable files, so we deliver files in a format they can view and print without any problems. If they need editable files we have files in open formats that don't require any expensive software to be opened and edited. Most of our clients see this as a benefit. It's how you sell it :-)
I did get one .xcf file for engraving once though. Even though it was the wrong format for engraving, seeing a GIMP file used in the wild it made my whole week! :D
Many free software advocates with no experience in print usually suggest that people should send SVGs to print shops. That's absolutely wrong. SVGs are not suitable for print, as XCF isn't an adequate format for print. The standard for press is currently PDF and TIFF. We can make them with free software.
Gez.