Am 08.03.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Amarneethi R:
> Since the mailing list was down for a while, I'm re-sending the message.
>
> Hi Inkscape Team and Brynn,
>
> I'm sorry about the last couple of emails and the heated conversation.
>
> I would like to know how and where to document the changes I'm
> suggesting to the UI, so people can refer to that link instead of emails
> as it becomes difficult to keep track of discussion here in the emails.
>
> I would like some guidance from the Inkscape team on this.
>
> Best
> Amarneethi
Hi Amarneethi,
Martin and Jabier usually use the website gallery for this.
It offers the option to upload text files, vector files or raster images
(and more), and to add a description. We've also got a category 'UI
Mockups' set up for this purpose.
If you don't have an account yet, you can register at
https://inkscape.org/user/register/
and then upload images to your 'Inkspace'.
If at some point you need more space than the standard 10 Mb, just send
a message to the devel list, and we can raise your quota.
There's also the Inkscape Wiki (http://wiki.inkscape.org), if you prefer
to write longer, formatted text. If you'd like an account there, please
request one via this mailing list, stating your desired user name.
Maren
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Amarneethi R <amarneethi@...400...
> <mailto:amarneethi@...400...>> wrote:
>
> Hi Inkscape Team and Brynn,
>
> I'm sorry about the last couple of emails and the heated conversation.
>
> I would like to know how and where to document the changes I'm
> suggesting to the UI, so people can refer to that link instead of
> emails as it becomes difficult to keep track of discussion here in
> the emails.
>
> I would like some guidance from the Inkscape team on this.
>
> Best
> Amarneethi
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Sebastian Zartner
> <sebastianzartner@...400... <mailto:sebastianzartner@...400...>> wrote:
>
> Just to clarify things:
> Amarneethi didn't mention the 85-90% in the first emails, but it
> was written at the top of the page showing the layout and in the
> second mail it was said that there is some functionality missing.
>
> Anyway, let's keep this discussion sober from now on.
>
> Sebastian
>
> On 6 March 2016 at 20:13, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
> <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:
>
> I apologize if I've offended you. I did say clearly that
> I'm only an
> Inkscape user, and that my comments are coming from the
> perspective of a
> user, who has little experience with development.
>
> It's possible I've not received all of your messages. When
> you mentioned
> that you had said several times that you were only showing
> part of the
> interface, I re-read every single message I have from you.
> And that was
> not said once. So I think that somehow I don't have all
> your messages.
>
> Again, I apologize if I said something to offend you. I do
> not intend any
> ill will.
>
> All best.
>
> _________________________
> From: Amarneethi R
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 1:57 AM
> To: Brynn ; inkscape-devel@...142...ge.net
> <mailto:inkscape-devel@...842...rceforge.net>
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape
>
>
> I guess you have no experience with UI design or User
> Experience. BTW I was
> not just addressing you, I was addressing the whole
> developer list and the
> change is not for no apparent reason. Again you can read the
> mail thread as
> I have explained the thought process and the reason behind
> the redesign.
>
>
>
> Almost all the design products(not just adobe products) use
> a dark UI and
> it's not just a coincidence. There are benefits to a dark UI
> from saving
> energy to being neutral to the colors that you use on a
> design and so on.
> You can google and find out.
>
>
> I highly recommend you to take some time and pay attention
> and make comments
> or refrain from making comments if you dunno what you are
> talking about.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
> <mailto:inkscape-devel@...1794...s.sourceforge.net>> <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:
>
> Hi Amarneethi,
>
> Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I
> have been
> constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are
> there and the rest
> "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be
> accommodated
> gracefully in the same UI.
>
> I must not have seen all your messages, because I didn't see
> that.
>
> I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is
> someone who has to
> approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.
>
> I would like some help on how to take this further from here.
>
> I'm the wrong person to ask about that. As I mentioned, I'm
> only an
> Inkscape user. I guess you could try and do some research,
> to find out how
> the current interface and icons were chosen. I know I've
> been using
> Inkscape since version 0.44, and the icons have never
> changed. So that's
> one reason this may not be an easy change to be
> implemented. (Also might be
> hard to research so long ago.)
>
> Another reason (as I see it, being a simple user who has
> only observed the
> development community for a year or so) you are proposing 2,
> or possibly 3
> different and some are major things: 1) You want to change
> ALL the icons.
> 2) You want to change.... well now, since you said your
> interface mockup is
> missing some things -- I'm not sure how much is missing and
> how much is a
> change. So possibly you want to change some of the dialogs,
> and possibly
> you want to change how some things are displayed in the
> window (the zoom and
> mouse position centered at the bottom) 3) And the 2-tone
> color theme is a
> major change for many users.
>
> One of the first things I would do is mockup the entire
> interface. If the
> developers are to seriously consider it, they will need to
> see the whole
> proposal. Right?
>
> Or maybe someone who actually knows the answer, about how to
> have your
> mockup seriously considered, will answer.
>
> Personally, I suspect it's highly unlikely the project would
> just up and
> change the interface, for no apparent reason. If they do, I
> hope they make
> it optional, since I'm not a big fan of white on black.
>
> Good luck!
> From: Amarneethi R
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:54 PM
> To: Brynn
> Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape
>
>
> That's awesome Brynn, such detailed comments, we can use
> your knowledge of
> Inkscape during the process. Like you said, it's a stage to
> stage
> implementation and we can address the issues you had
> mentioned in the stages
> when we are actually implementing that part of the new design.
>
>
> Also I don't know if you had a chance to read my emails, I
> have been
> constantly mentioning that 85-90% of the UI/functions are
> there and the rest
> "ARE MISSING" and I have also mentioned that it can be
> accommodated
> gracefully in the same UI.
>
>
> I don't know how it works and I don't know if there is
> someone who has to
> approve the features or a change like this into Inkscape.
>
> I would like some help on how to take this further from here.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Amarneethi
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...
> <mailto:inkscape-devel@...1794...s.sourceforge.net>> <mailto:brynn@...3133...>> wrote:
>
> if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really
> make any
> comments,
> since I'm a Windows user.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
> Since it sounds like this is an overall ui design, I'll make
> some more
> comments.
>
> 1 - I think these are some big changes which cannot happen
> all at once.
> Maybe if they are implemented in stages, like each time
> there's a new
> version release, some more changes are added, it might work.
>
> 2 - I would like to see this as an option, and not forced on
> users.
> Personally I don't like white on black (or dark gray)
> themes. And I have
> not seen anywhere (screenshots from other users, since I
> only use Windows at
> present) any 2-tone ui or icon sets that I like. As I
> mentioned before, I
> have very few complaints with the current interface.
> Although....
>
> This is a big "although". I would really, really, really
> like to see some
> way for Inkscape to have interchangeable themes, or
> sometimes I've seen
> called "skins", which can be changed easily from Inks Prefs;
> and in such a
> way that anyone could create their own personal theme, or
> create themes that
> they can share with the community.
>
> Since I don't like the 2-tone ui in the first place, I'm not
> sure if it
> would be fair for me to make further comments.... Well, at
> least not about
> the icons' appearance, but I could make some comments that
> don't relate to
> the 2-tone nature of the interface.
> ____________
>
> 1 - Re your image, toolbox_names.jpg
>
> I would not be in favor of the Gradient tool being hidden
> under the Paint
> tool. Imo, the Paint Bucket tool is more of a raster
> feature that's made to
> work for Inkscape. So it should not hide the Gradient
> tool. I use the
> Gradient tool by faaarr more often than PB. Actually it
> doesn't make sense
> to me to have them grouped at all, even if PB was hidden
> under Gradient
> tool.
>
> Let's see, we currently have 20 tools, that you've somehow
> condensed down to
> 9. I'm not sure exactly which tools you consider a shape
> tool. (Rect, Ell,
> Star, Spiral, and maybe 3D Box?) So 9 plus 4 = 13. And
> then 1 more for
> hidden Gradient is 14.
>
> Missing are Selection, Connector, Dropper, Eraser, Measure,
> and Zoom
>
> I guess maybe you're having Zoom controlled from the bottom
> of the window?
> But where are the other 5 tools?
>
> How do you decide which dialogs/panels will appear in the
> toolbox? What
> about Filters Editor? (I keep forgetting to make wishlist
> for a button for
> Filters Editor, to go in command bar with F/S, Text, Layers,
> etc.) And
> there are others that might work there as well.
>
> The Layers icon looks too much like a New Document, New
> File, or maybe even
> a Pages icon. I haven't found your version of the New File
> icon yet, to be
> able to compare.
>
> Align dialog icon needs a 3rd bar, to be more clear what it
> is. What
> happened to Distribute?
>
> The Node tool icon needs to have at least 1 node in it.
>
> The Transform Panel icon doesn't give me any indication what
> it's for.
> Without the text, I'd be confused. It could be the Node
> tool or a Fill
> tool, or even a shape tool.
>
> Also I don't get the Paint tool icon, whatever it is. Imo,
> the bucket is a
> better symbol.
>
> What happened to the Selection tool?
>
> 2 - Re your image, panels.png
>
> For Text panel, why is there a color option? Can't we just
> use the color
> palette (or panel) to change text color?
>
> For Transform panel, where do you choose units?
>
> For Align panel, what happened to Distribute options? Are
> they in a
> separate panel?
>
> For Layers panel, the little eye that opens and closes is
> classic. I
> suspect there would be constant complaints about the diamond
> shape for
> show/hide. Also, I'm not sure if you're showing all locked
> or all unlocked
> layers. (The current lock/unlock icons are also classic.)
>
> I could take or leave having the palettes in a panel. It's
> one of those "if
> it isn't broken, don't fix it" things, imo. What are those
> 2 icons in
> top-right corner -- a dashed line and a solid line. Is that
> how you choose
> a different palette?
>
> 3 - Re inkscapeUI_v07.jpg
>
> Whoa!! What happened to the status bar??!
>
> I see that you put the Style Indicator section of the status
> bar in
> the....I'm guessing that's the Selection tool control bar.
> (Although I still
> haven't found the Selection tool icon yet.) What happens if
> you're using a
> different tool? Is the Style Indicator permantently in the
> control bar?
>
> What happened to the Layer Indicator? I can see where maybe
> it's not
> needed, especially if the Layers dialog is open. But it's
> very convenient
> if Layers dialog is not open.
>
> But MUCH more importantly, where's the Notification Area?
> In my opinion,
> the notification area is the single most important part of
> the interface!!
>
> I see a whole LOT of blank space between the white rectangle
> and the toolbox
> on the left and dialog buttons on the right. From an image
> further down the
> page, it looks like the space on the right is where the
> dialogs open. But
> is that just wasted space on the left? And there's blank
> space above and
> below the white rectangle too. Where does the canvas
> start? Are there
> features that will use this space? Why not fill it up with
> more canvas
> space?
> ____________
>
> Ok, those are all my comments :-)
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
> ___________________________________
> From: Amarneethi R
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:57 AM
> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> <jabier.arraiza@...2893... <mailto:jabier.arraiza@...2893...>>> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
> First thanks to Sebastian, Brynn and others for their
> comments, suggestions
> and kind words.
> I will try to summarize the thought process behind the redesign.
>
>
> The main thought process behind the new interface design for
> inkscape was to
> make it more organized and user-friendly than just a theme
> change. For
> example, right now the "Text and Font panel" (Ctrl+Shift+T)
> has three
> different tabs which is unnecessary in my opinion, if you
> look at the new
> text panel it covers almost all of the functionalities in
> all the three
> panels put together. There are a few functionalities in the
> panel which I
> don't understand, so I thought I can get an understanding
> from you guys when
> we actually implement it in development. As I have mentioned
> in my original
> mail, the missing functionalities can still be accommodated
> gracefully
> without sacrificing the visual appeal.
>
>
> I had a conversation in the IRC channel with a inkscape user
> whether we
> should adapt the new icons and theme right away. Any product
> development
> change takes time and is done in phases, so we can look at
> re-organizing the
> panels with the existing iconography in phase one but some
> controls might
> have to be changed. We can take the same Text Panel as an
> example, the font
> chooser can be a "dropdown" instead of a "scrolling list" as
> the user will
> be able to see a consistent number of fonts whether a single
> panel is docked
> or multiple panels are docked. Right now if I have more than
> one panel
> docked, I'm not able to see more than five fonts and the
> scrolling becomes
> more painful. Another example is whenever I choose a font
> it doesn't
> reflect on the selected text item, I have to press "apply"
> button every time
> which is not very intuitive for the end-user, at least I
> should be able to
> apply when I double click on the font name in the current
> control, if it is
> dropdown it should apply the chosen font on the selected text.
>
>
>
>
> These are my observations as a windows Inkscape user and
> just one example of
> the entire thought process. Having said all this I'm not
> sure of the
> limitations in terms of technology/framework. But I'm sure
> we can find
> elegant controls/solutions with GTK itself as I can already
> see those
> controls in the current design itself, but for different
> actions/functions.
> For example, instead of putting the "superscript",
> "subscript" in the
> variants tab and under an accordion we can use a similar
> control as the
> "left","right","center" alignment icons and put them under
> font tab, which
> is easier for the users to access than being hidden in
> another tab and under
> an accordion. :)
>
>
> Once we are done with the re-organization of the tools and
> panels, we can
> look at switching the theme which I assume is a matter of
> changing the icon
> images or something similar.
>
>
> Like Sebastian has mentioned UX is more than just a skin
> change and I think
> Inkscape can benefit from a UX overhaul.
>
>
> Best
> Amarneethi
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz
> <mailto:inkscape-devel@...1794...s.sourceforge.net>> wrote:
>
> Maybe Im on the bad way but I love all GTK widgets changed
> to HTML
> widgets, so changin style is more easy and independent to
> programing
> layer.
>
> Is this posible or is a cracy thing?
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
>
> El sáb, 05-03-2016 a las 04:05 -0700, Brynn escribió:
>
> I'll be glad to make some comments, simply as an Inkscape
> user. I'm
> not a
> developer.
>
> I see that you must have put a lot of thought and long hours
> of work
> into
> this. And congratulation for that!
>
> How did you decide what changes to make? Is it all just
> your own
> personal
> preference?
>
> I think it would be very interesting, and very helpful, if
> someone
> (or a
> team) who wanted to make a new interface, would do some
> polling, to
> find out
> what changes are wanted/needed by the greater community as a
> whole. In my
> opinion, that's the kind of change in the interface which
> has the
> best
> chance of being adopted and used by the project. Although
> personally, for
> the most part, I'm happy with the current interface.
>
> Or is this only for the Linux system, where it's my
> understanding
> it's
> easier to change the interface theme? If you intend this to
> be an
> overall
> interface change, for all systems, I could make some
> comments for
> you. But
> if this is just for Linux and/or Mac, I shouldn't really
> make any
> comments,
> since I'm a Windows user.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
> ____________________________________
> From: Amarneethi R
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:00 PM
> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Inkscape-devel] User-Interface design for Inkscape
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
>
> I have been working on a new user-interface for Inkscape,
> you can
> find the
> design in the link below.
> I'm a fan of open source softwares and been using them for
> over 5
> years now
> and wanted to give back to the open source community.
> Let me know what you guys think. :)
>
>
> http://artntechasone.com/forInkscapeTeam.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Amarneethi
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Inkscape-devel@...842...rceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> -----------
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Inkscape-devel@...842...rceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
> Amarneethi
> Never care for things they say!
> Never care for games they play!!
> Life is ours we live it our way...
> Cos nothing else matters..!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Inkscape-devel@...842...rceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
> Amarneethi
> Never care for things they say!
> Never care for games they play!!
> Life is ours we live it our way...
> Cos nothing else matters..!
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
> Amarneethi
> Never care for things they say!
> Never care for games they play!!
> Life is ours we live it our way...
> Cos nothing else matters..!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Inkscape-devel@...842...rceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> *Amarneethi*
> Never care for things they say!
> Never care for games they play!!
> Life is ours we live it our way...
> Cos nothing else matters..!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> *Amarneethi*
> Never care for things they say!
> Never care for games they play!!
> Life is ours we live it our way...
> Cos nothing else matters..!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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