Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

30 Mar 2017

      "From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in 
the Windows store?"
If Inkscape can be ported into tightly locked down varient of Windows, 
then I'd imagine they'd be able to install Inkscape through the Store 
since desktop programs are not normally able to be installed there. 
People who wants a vector program through Surface RT, for example may 
have a use of this program. You might say that this applies to very few 
people, and I would agree with that, but that's still a small amount of 
people with no access to Inkscape as it is to be able to access Inkscape.
On 3/30/2017 5:57 AM, brynn wrote:
...
...
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.
Wait.  Are you suggesting the $10 fee or suggested donation from users?  Or are
you suggesting MS pay us a fee?  Haha!
In jest.
But really,
"If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange."
From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the
Windows store?
MS, Inkscape, Inkscape users?
Maybe considering who benefits more from having Inkscape in the store, should be
considered?
Last thought.
 From my primary role in the community, which is answering user questionsin
forums (and now and then in the mailing list) having Inkscape in the Windows
store will mean more *super newbies* asking questions.
Right now, people seek out Inkscape because they need vector graphics fortheir
specific project.  Putting Inkscape in the store will mean more casual, or
simply curious users.
If the project is seriously considering this, in my humble opinion, the project
needs to consider making itself easier for this kind of user to learn.  Of
course there are many ways that could be done (including the proposed new
user-focussed manual).  But right now, in my experience, the group who I think
of as "super newbies" typically seem to find Inkscape is hard to learn.
So I wouldn't want Inkscape to gain such reputation, just because a lot of
casual users haven't spent as much time as is needed to learn how to use it.  I
assume the Windows store has some easy buttons to rate the software?
All my opinion  :-)
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Owens
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:41 PM
To: Victor Westmann ; C R
Cc: dwashin@...3499... ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed
to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a
certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not
systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.
I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I
see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old
chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.
I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it
aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need
food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay
on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be
inspired to listen to user's wants.
Which is bad.
These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their
user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no
value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call
themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about
our project's appearance, cost and communication.
We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and
Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our
project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is
a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the
great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.
Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and
glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a
terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at
LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from
everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good
and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this
project to a high standard.
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
...
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug
fixing for greater stability and speed).
--Victor Westmann
2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
...
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:

Exposure
So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.

My 2p.
Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a
full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...3445...
m> wrote:
...
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store
instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the
open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...>
wrote:
...
Hi David Washington,
Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting
this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the
impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue
for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however
that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a
way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's
start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the
software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some
sort of additional features that one must pay to have with
assurance that the money being paid for additional features is
a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should
remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional
features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office
programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well
rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered
later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store.
I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering
support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step
for that, and this also might encourage open-source office
programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even
bother with that at all).
This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office
programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server,
better program integration support, even better SVG rendering
on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There
also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile
support as a result of this. Essentially, development of
Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it,
I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is
only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG
support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go
forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering
that Inkscape development is very slow.
Thanks,
Miguel Lopez
On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
...
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install.
Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more
important
that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store.
Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most
people
forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft
> who wants to
> help us simplify precesses on windows.
>
> Here is his email:
>
> ===
> David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this
> afternoon I had
> conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the
> Inkscape app
> to
> the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
>
> The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop
> apps with
> little
> or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking
> advantage
> of
> the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the
> Windows Store
> also  provides simplified options for  automated updates,
> easy
> install
> and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for
> folks who may
> have not found Inkscape before.
>
> Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that
> we’d love
> to
> see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources
> to help
> with
> the process of getting this ported using the Windows
> Desktop Bridge
> and
> published to the Windows Store. The process itself is
> lightweight,
> and
> our team is equipped help walk you through getting it
> ported and
> published. We’ve done some early investigation on the
> Inkscape
> binaries
> and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
>
> If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can
> get
> together
> on the phone and talk through the details for the next
> steps of
> getting
> this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC,
> we’re
> happy
> to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to
> work with
> you on getting this published as early as next week.
>
> I look forward to working together. I’ve included some
> folks from my
> team who will be helping you.
>
> Thanks much,
> David Washington
> Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
> ===
>
> Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff
> on
> windows,
> could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
>
> Thanks,
>

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