On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:50:50 -0300 From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Plinnell <scribusdocs@...84...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape /Scribus IRC meet
Raise/Lower/Front/Back: we use PgUp/PgDn/Home/End, but since you are
I strongly advise against using Page Up and Page Down for anything other than going up and down the page, it bothers me that Inkscape (and so many other GTK applications) still do it. At the very least they should be combined with a modifier, but I still wouldn't recommend it, as they are awkward to reach keys.
I don't see how they are "awkward to reach" any more than any other
the easiest keys to reach are the home keys asdf and jkl; because that is where hands tend to be on the keyboard. The home keys f and j are particularly easy because most keyboards have notches on those keys allowing you to find them without looking.
the Esc key is easier to hit than any of the Function keys because it is on the top right and isolated, making it relatively easy to hit without looking.
key. And most importantly they're VERY intuitive for the meaning of Raise/Lower/etc - their labels are obvious synonyms of the
But they are EVEN MORE intuitive for scrolling the Page Up and Page Down.
You could just as easily argue that the arrow keys are best choice, but they are already being use for moving on the X and Y axis.
Inkscape is a weird case but in other other GTK applications if Page Up and Page Down are used for something else by default they cannot be rebound to actually go up and down the page, those who dont want it that way have no choice.
corresponding functions. I use them subcosciously now, whereas -
Forwards Ctrl+F Backwards Ctrl+B Back Ctrl+Shift+B Front Ctrl+Shift+F
this is what Xara uses, and I _STILL_ have to spend a fraction of a second thinking before I press them when in Xara, even though I've been using Xara for many years. Very unintuitive.
I think it is a matter of opinion what is best, I think it is unfair to presume that what you prefer is the most obvious or intuitive particularly when you yourself know that your bias is towards keybindings used by Xara.
And already taken in Inkscape, btw.
The keybindings in Inkscape can still be changed, it is not like there has been a version 1.0 release with any implied promise of stability and maintainance.
Inkscape particularly made me understand why trying to have keybindings for everything can be a problem, once a keybinding is set users are reluctant to change to a better one because they are already used to it.
It of course makes sense to look at what keybindings are used by Adobe InDesign or Quark Express because those are what your userbase are most likely to be familiar with.
Do not forget about Corel Draw and Xara (the two are similar in their
I can only assume you meant it makes sense for Inkscape it makes sense to look at those applications (it also makes sense to give greatest weight to Illustrator and Freehand which have the largest user base) because it makes sense for Scribus to look at other Desktop Publishing applications before anything else.
This is particularly horrendous, definately goes against the Gnome Guidelines and probably goes against the KDE style guide as most applications use F1 for help.
It's logical and very convenient.
Logic all depends on your starting point. Again you are being very subjective, convenient is debatable. It is certainly consistant to use Function keys for all the tools, and that is a logical methodology but it doesn't make it more logical than anything else.
The current choice of keybindings is efficient for some (for Corel Draw users most of all) but that does not necessarily make them the best defaults for an application like Inkscape that is willing to make changes to be much more attractive to a wider audience than Sodipodi, and to do things like work within the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines. People using Inkscape very heavily will get used to keybindings but consistant guidelines across the whole desktop works well because means less specific keybindings users have to learn and less confusion when they switch from application. To put it in perspecitive dont you just hate it when command line applications dont follow the style used by GNU applications for command line arguements.
I use it all the time. There are many other ways to access Help. And as for Scribus, currently it does not use F1 for anything.
The tutorials are the closest Inkscape has to help files for now so it is only a minor point, but it will become a glaring inconsistancy if Inkscape is going to try to follow the Gnome Guidelines.
To be fair I can see you are being subjective because I do it myself but hopefully between us we can cancel out our biases and give Inkscape the best keybindings for the majority of users.
Anyway I hope Plinnell will take this on board and be very careful when trying to choose keybindings that will best serve his users.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/