Am 15.12.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Maren Hachmann:
I always felt this Alt/Shift thing was a convention - Ctrl always *restricts* (direction, angle), Shift is for *large steps* (scale, move), and Alt is for *small steps*. This pattern repeats for inset, outset, moving objects, nodes, scaling various things, see https://inkscape.org/en/doc/keys092.html
So Alt for small steps is totally logical to me.
But that's exactly my point: It's not working like that (it's only - wrongly? - documented like that)! If I open Inkscape at the then default zoom level of (35%) the Alt key causes *larger* steps. Personally I've actually given up using modifiers to move objects as I found it to be unpredictable and typically set numerical values manually when I need precise positioning and can't use snapping for some reason.
All the color sliders (probably the most used ones?) do not allow any control at all. Numerical inputs (i.e. plain spinbuttons) do not allow any control at all.
If we make this a convention (and try to follow it) I'm fine with it, but I hate inconsistent UI that is said to follow conventions that people only *think* exist (because they somehow got used to the quirks) but basically does whatever it wants in most cases leaving users who actually try with logic out in the rain.
The "Ctrl restricts movement" is a valid argument and I would like if it could be adapted for sliders (e.g. 10% steps in a 100% slider or 16/32 steps in 256 value slider).
On Linux, to be able to use Alt+Click and many other shortcuts, you need to deactivate Alt as a Window management key anyway (admittedly, that's not nice, we have an extra FAQ item for it...), so I don't really see a new issue here. Alt+Click is even more important than small steps in some slider, and it's only available when you change your window management settings.
I'm not sure what you're saying here? As an ignorant Windows user I'm hearing "most Linux users are not able to use the Alt key anyway, so why bother? those who figure out how to make it usable can probably figure out what it does, too"... If it really is that hard to get it working - should we really rely on it for central functionality we want to add to a new widget?
Maren
Am 15.12.2017 um 20:00 schrieb Eduard Braun:
Am 15.12.2017 um 16:11 schrieb C R:
Inkscape's speed/increment modifier convention is currently:
Alt = slower increment Shift = faster increment No modifier = normal (default) increment
We should definitely keep this consistent wherever it's possible to do so.
My 2p. -C
And where can I find a control in Inkscape that follows this "convention"? If we have a convention I'm totally fine with sticking with it, I'm just not aware of any (and if there is none I personally prefer Ctrl over Shift over Alt). If there is a convention it first of all needs proper documentation, so a) devs are aware of it and have a chance implementing it and b) users will have a chance of being aware of it and use it.
The only related thing I could find: While moving objects around and doing similar tasks we sometimes allow:
- No modifier = default increment
- Alt = move by 1 pixel instead of default increment according to keys and mouse reference However this does not only seem to be problematic now that we use mm as default units, it also does not seem to work as advertised: When pressing Alt the change is relative to the current zoom level instead, so it might well be larger as the default increment without modifier
- Shift = increase amount by 10 (can be used in any combination)
Maybe you were referring to that? With the confusing behavior it's hardly a convention either, though...
If in the end we really have no convention it might be a good time to think about one!
Best Regards, Eduard
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