> If you have problems like this, please fix it in GTK and not in every
> GTK app. GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit by the definition on there
> website and not only an Linux toolkit that works on windows too.

I couldn't agree more, and I think the i-beam problem has been solved precisely because the later builds use more up-to-date versions of GTK.

> But we need a file dialog that fits better into windows. So I would suggest
> to write a gtk dialog, that looks like a windows dialog.
> The pros are, that all windows gtk apps will benefit from it and that we
> can still use the preview and the bookmarks.

I would have to disagree with you there. It will be very difficult for a facsimily of the Windows dialog to look consistent in it's finer details - leaving Windows users rather unsatisfied. The details really do matter. The dialog should not be nearly the same (all except for that one little thing), it needs to be exactly the same. When one calls the OpenFileName API you get the open file dialog for the version of windows which you are using. But, I suspect it'll be impossible for use to make clones of the file dialogs of *all* windows versions - especially when you take forwards compatibility with future versions of Windows into account. This is why we need to use the Windows API.

I'm very impressed that the Print dialog is now the native windows file dialog - it just looks so much better!

For versions of Windows before Vista, there is scope for making slight changes to the dialog by modifying the "dialog template". This basically allows you to add extra controls to it. Vista has a slightly more refined, better supported way of allowing you to do the same thing. So there would need to be different code for all versions prior to vista to all versions vista and onwards. I myself am very happy to take on this rather fiddly task, because I place a very high value on consistency.

> I can only agree with you, that Windows is an very important platform.
> But please don't hack the Windows support into Inkscape but make it the
> "right way". ;)

I wouldn't have it any other way.

---

From: Tobias Jakobs <tobias.jakobs@...128...>
Sent: 26 June 2007 12:08
To: Joel Holdsworth <joel@...1709...>
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Getting the GdkWindow in which a verb was invoked

Am Dienstag, den 26.06.2007, 18:09 +0100 schrieb Joel Holdsworth:

> One thing I notice quite regularly is that
> because this a GTK app, it is inevitably primarily designed for Gnome. An
> example of this problem is the edit box I-beam cursor. In 0.45.1 when you
> hover over an edit box in windows you get a GTK style I-beam, rather than
> the windows system I-beam. I'm very glad that this has now been fixed in the
> developement builds. A second example is scrollbars. When you scroll to the
> maximum or minimum extent, the arrow buttons grey out. That behaviour makes
> sense, but it's not Windows standard, so it sticks out like a sore thumb.
>
If you have problems like this, please fix it in GTK and not in every
GTK app. GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit by the definition on there
website and not only an Linux toolkit that works on windows too.


> I guess I got a similar impression of the file dialogs. Far from making me
> feel like a first class citizen, it made me feel like it was one of those
> linuxy things that noone had got round to fixing sorting out yet - Linux
> being the primary platform for the project, and I being a mere "M$ Windoze"
> user. I definitely don't think we should add more options to resolve this -
> as they tend to be an excuse for dodging hard design decisions. I agree that
> it would be a shame to loose bookmarks and preview, but then I don't think
> many Windows users will know what they're missing. Instead they'll be happy
> that the application has the humility to "play the Windows game the Windows
> way".
>
I agree with you that we need other file dialogs on windows. An old
usability rule is: "The Platform is the King." That means, it's not
important to have the same dialogs on every platform, but to fit into
the platform as good as possible.
So the first question is, is there a standard Windows file open dialog?
Look at Word, Photoshop, Coral Draw, Notepad and you will find 4
different file open dialogs. So we don't need "the standard windows file
open dialog" because the users are used to different file dialogs. But
we need a file dialog that fits better into windows. So I would suggest
to write a gtk dialog, that looks like a windows dialog.
The pros are, that all windows gtk apps will benefit from it and that we
can still use the preview and the bookmarks.

> I think it's quite important that we try and show Windows users that we take
> their platform sersously, because the majority of developers work on that
> platform, so we could do with attracting their input to get more inovation,
> and faster progress.

I can only agree with you, that Windows is an very important platform.
But please don't hack the Windows support into Inkscape but make it the
"right way". ;)

Regards,
Tobias