Re: [Inkscape-devel] [UI] Name for a new function

7 May 2016

      On 7 May 2016 at 17:38, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arraiza@...2893...>
wrote:
...
HI I just evaluate as 4 option the CR one:
4. Retain stroke to path and add deconstruct object retaining lines as
lines
I don't understand "retaining lines as lines". What does it mean?
My option (1) was to retain "Stroke to path" and add "Deconstruct object".
How is (4) different from (1) ?
...
To me this 4 option -agree with the Olaf 1-3- give:

More logic to naming in -a pro- user point of view

Usualy we need two steps to archive this kind of result
Final user need to be informed about the two steps process.

Cheers, Jabier.
El sáb, 07-05-2016 a las 17:22 +0200, Olof Bjarnason escribió:
...
On 7 May 2016 at 16:57, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
...
Yes, to me, "Deconstruct" implies separation of line from fill, but
nothing about conversion of the line to fill.
If we ever have a function that just separates all parts of a shape
object
into separate shape objects with lines in-tact,
"deconstruct"  would fit
much better, I think.
Conceptually it really boils down to whether this command Jabier
developed
is an improvement of "Stroke to path" or a brand new command.
So we get three options, in my opinion:

Add a new menu item called "Deconstruct object" (or "Stroke to

fill")
2. Modify the meaning of "Stroke to path"
3. Modify the meaning, and name, of "Stroke to path" to "Stroke to
fill"
(or "Deconstruct object")
Here's my take on all three, please do your own evaluation too:
(1) has the consequence of yet another command on that menu, but no
confusion to old users (and a little higher threshold to new users)
(2) has the consequence of (possibly) confusing old users, but
slightly
improving the situation for new users (the new command is undoubtedly
less
surprising in behaviour than current Stroke to path) but not so much
(the
name is still confusing)
(3) has the consequence of (possibly) confusing old users, but
improving
the situation a lot for new users
I prefer (3) even if I'm an old time user, and like (1) least of the
options, since I don't like bloat in neither UI nor code. (2) is
middle
ground for me.
...
-C
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
...
Nice!
It's "new and improved" Stroke to Path.  Can it just replace
Stroke to
Path?  Or call it "super" stroke to path.  Just kidding.  But
"deconstruct"
could be confusing.
...
From simple user :-)
brynn

From: "Jabier Arraiza" <jabier.arraiza@...2893...>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 4:58 AM
To: "Brynn" <brynn@...3133...>; "Inkscape-Devel"
inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] [UI] Name for a new function
...
Here are some screenshots working, notice the not default paint
order:
Before apply:
View mode :
https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85deconstruct-object
-14
Line mode :
https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85deconstruct-object
-24
Apply : No screen shot my screnshot dont fire when menu path is
open. I
put a temp item after "stroke to path" menu
After apply :
View mode :
https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85deconstruct-object
-34
Line mode :
https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85deconstruct-object
-44
Also another cuestion if finaly is a diferent item in the menu
could be
good have a shortcut.
Cheers, Jabier.
El sáb, 07-05-2016 a las 11:57 +0200, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz
escribió:
...
The new effect convert a object with one or more of this
fill,strokes
or marker to a item with all converted to paths, same visual,
no more
markers or strokes. Also retain paint order.
El sáb, 07-05-2016 a las 03:36 -0600, Brynn escribió:
>
>
> Seeing how it works would help understanding.  From a
> simple user:
>
> "deconstruct object" sounds like breaking up any object to
> individual
> pieces, maybe like Ungroup, or Break Apart.  And I can't
> imagine
> how
> "stroke
> to fill" fits with either of those. ("stroke to fill"
> sounds like
> some kind
> of a stripe pattern)
>
> All best  :-)
> brynn
>
> ____________________________
> From: C R
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 3:13 AM
> To: Olof Bjarnason
> Cc: Inkscape Devel List
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] [UI] Name for a new function
>
>
> Yes please draw some use case diagrams.
> (And I like the renaming too. I'm still much more of a user
> than a
> developer
> of inkscape and that name (stroke to path) has annoyed me
> for
> years!)
>
>
> Will do! And yes, I'm going to recommend renaming it as
> well. It's
> always
> been a bit of a sticking point in my head as well.
>
>
> -C
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2016 11:03, "C R" <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
>
> I think stroke to path is already a naming convention for a
> very
> similar
> functionality, so I will keep this name if possible if the
> feature
> is
> not
> too different. If a user will receive most of the time the
> same
> result I
> will try to keep it to avoid confusion. Having too many
> features
> with
> similar behaviours could be frustrating.
>
>
> Agreed. This is my main reason for proposing a modification
> to the
> behaviour
> of Stroke to Path (We can think about renaming it later,
> however
> that
> may be
> confusing to our current user base. As a daily user, I'm
> all for
> changing it
> to "Strike to Fill", which is what Stroke to Path actually
> does.
>
> I would strongly suggest not to create a new menu option if
> the
> behaviour is
> not too different from the expected one if we think the
> users are
> going to
> keep using it as they were doing before.
>
>
> To clarify:
> 1. Make a red circle with a black stroke
> 2. Path > Stroke to Path
>
>
> Watch the red circle vanish
>
>
> Note that I didn't ask Inkscape to throw away the fill, it
> just
> does
> it
> because there is no shape to contain it anymore.
> Since we have Paint Order in trunk now, this is even more
> of an
> issue; you
> don't want Stroke to Path to throw away everything you did
> to make
> that
> shape look the way it is, which may include a stack of LPEs
> and
> markers, not
> to mention the fill may include a complex gradient that you
> have to
> copy and
> paste-in-place to recover. The way it has worked has always
> been a
> major
> workflow bottleneck, and Jabier's new function fixes the
> problem
> entirely.
>
>
> Would folks like to see some use case and work flow
> diagrams?
> If so, I can have them ready tomorrow.
>
>
> -C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Otherwise, reading the feature explanation, "decompose
> object" or
> "deconstruct object"sounds self-explanatory to me.
>
>
> I don't have an answer, but I would raise some questions
> about how
> we
> think
> it is going to be used: what is the purpose, what is the
> expected
> outcome
> and I would compare to the stroke to path option to ensure
> that are
> enough
> different.
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarn
> ason@...3363...
> il
> .com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mvh
>
>
>
>
> /Olof
> -----------------
> Är du systemutvecklare?
> Spana in https://cilamp.se
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2016 at 10:14, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
>
> Basicly, this is how Stroke to Fill should work.
>
>
> How it works now:
> Ctrl+Alt+C > Stroke to Path
>
>
> Result: stroke is indeed converted to path, but the fill
> and all
> other parts
> of the selection that are not strokes vanish. If any LPEs
> are
> applied
> to the
> path they are thrown out as well (you need to convert
> object to
> path
> before
> this operation to preserve the appearance).
>
>
>
>
> How it should work (this "deconstruct" alternative):
> Ctrl+Alt+C > Stroke to Path
>
>
> Result: All LPE's applied to stroke, then the stroke is
> converted
> to
> path.
>
>
> My thought is, if we use the convention that a fill is only
> turned
> into an
> object if there is a fill set on the object, then we can
> please
> anyone who
> prefers the old behaviour. All they have to do is get rid
> of the
> fill
> colour
> on the object before applying Stroke to Path.
>
>
> The current way it's handled is counter-intuitive. Most of
> the
> time,
> all you
> want to do is convert the outline to a fill, not throw away
> tons of
> data.
> The point is to preserve appearance, and the Jabier's new
> function
> does this
> much much better.
>
>
> Thanks, that is a good explanation. However the wording
> "stroke to
> path"
> isn't that clear to me.
>
>
> Now that I understand what is going on I think
> "deconstruct" is
> actually a
> quite good albeit little techy word for the operation.
> "Decompose"?
> "Path to
> fills"?
>
>
> The end result is a bunch of filled paths, and the input is
> what
> exactly? I
> think "X to Y" is a good but then the X and the Y should be
> closer
> to
> what
> the operation is actually doing ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> My 2p.
> -C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarna
> son@...3387...
> l.
> com>
> wrote:
>
> Is there any image giving an example of what the command
> does...?
> Like
> before/after with arrows and descriptive text?
>
>
> It's kind of hard to understand what is happening from the
> very
> brief
> description at the top of that thread...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mvh
>
>
>
>
> /Olof
> -----------------
> Är du systemutvecklare?
> Spana in https://cilamp.se
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2016 at 09:53, Jabiertxo Arraiza Cenoz <jabier.arr
> aiza@...3285...
> ke
> r.es>
> wrote:
>
> Hi to all UI power!
> I Just to know a name for the patch https://bugs.launchpad.
> net/inks
> ca
> pe
> /+bug/1556592
>
> See the ScislaC proposal on #5
> Bryce like "Deconstruct object", me too.
>
> Is ok the name? Another one?
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
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