On 3/17/06, Joshua A. Andler <joshua@...533...> wrote:
In AI, if you clip an object and use the (black) selection tool, it moves the entire "group". If you use the (white) direct selection tool, you can manipulate the clippath (or clipped objects) while the clip is still applied.
In Xara, if you clip an object and use the selector tool, it will move the entire "group". If you ctrl+click using the selector tool, you can manipulate the clippath (or clipped objects) while the clip is still applied.
OK, so these apps allow you to edit clippath without unclipping. That's good, and eventually we'll need to do this as well. However my point is that:
- even without it, clipping is quite usable if you have reliable clip and unclip commands;
- implementing editing clippath without unclipping would not be made any easier or more difficult by placing it in defs or not. Even when not in defs, clippath is still a special invisible object, and you still need special code to enable editing it as a regular path. It'll take work no matter which way you go.
The way that I'm talking about grouping is the behavior, not necesarilly a document structured group (but I would imagine it is, but just a special type). You're right, what I do need is the correct behavior. From the way it seems, if anyone that uses masks or clippaths in other vector software comes to Inkscape, they'll be confused by lack of ease with editing. Please try to clip some objects and manipulate them in both Xara & AI with my instructions above, and the "grouping" I talk about will probably make more sense to you then.
Please be more specific. I have already explained the situation with transforming clipped objects, and with editing clippath without unclipping (both are doable but need work). What else do you need to get the desired "grouped" behavior?
I would personally prefer not moving them out of defs as well, but if it's the best solution, then it is what it is. And even though we both prefer to keep clippaths and masks in defs, I feel the need to repeat your own question and following statement back to you. "Why would you, as a user, care about document structure at all? What you need is the correct behavior, not structure."
Because I am not a user, so I care about structure. I think that keeping them in defs would be much easier overall, because we have a lot of legacy code that assumes that everything is in defs.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org