bulia byak wrote:
On 3/17/06, Joshua A. Andler <joshua@...533...> wrote:
- In Inkscape, currently you can not edit a clippath on canvas
(presumably because it's located in defs). I wouldn't imagine this wouldn't be too painful to change, but the aspect of residing in defs brings up the other major difference/problem.
OK, suppose you have a clipped object and you want to edit the clippath. What's wrong with this: you unclip ("release") it so that the clippath becomes a regular path, edit it, and then clip back? I always thought that's the way you do it in AI (but I may be wrong on this, as I never used clipping much anywhere).
In AI, if you clip an object and use the (black) selection tool, it moves the entire "group". If you use the (white) direct selection tool, you can manipulate the clippath (or clipped objects) while the clip is still applied.
In Xara, if you clip an object and use the selector tool, it will move the entire "group". If you ctrl+click using the selector tool, you can manipulate the clippath (or clipped objects) while the clip is still applied.
From what I recall of Freehand, which I haven't used in a few years, you could also live edit clipped objects and the clipping paths but by normal selection the acted as "groups".
With good UI, if I need to make 20 tweaks to a clippath (or it could be 2 tweaks to 10 clippaths), I shouldn't have to visit the menus 40 times to do it. A ctrl+click like Xara saves the menu trips and is faster, more user-friendly, and I never have to leave the canvas.
For note, I do use clippaths quite a bit in my work.
- In Xara or Illustrator when you clip objects, they're "grouped"
together (clipped objects and the clipping path/mask). It doesn't seem like this is easily achieved because of the structure of SVG and defs preceding regular items in the doc.
What do you mean by "grouping"? Why would you, as a user, care about document structure at all? What you need is the correct behavior, not structure. Most importantly, the clippath must be transformed together with the clipped object. This is already true for some kinds of objects (eg ellipses) and I know how to make it true for all objects. And this is doable regardless of whether the clippath is in defs or not.
The way that I'm talking about grouping is the behavior, not necesarilly a document structured group (but I would imagine it is, but just a special type). You're right, what I do need is the correct behavior. From the way it seems, if anyone that uses masks or clippaths in other vector software comes to Inkscape, they'll be confused by lack of ease with editing. Please try to clip some objects and manipulate them in both Xara & AI with my instructions above, and the "grouping" I talk about will probably make more sense to you then.
So, unless I'm missing something, I don't see any need for moving clippaths out of defs as Mental suggested.
I would personally prefer not moving them out of defs as well, but if it's the best solution, then it is what it is. And even though we both prefer to keep clippaths and masks in defs, I feel the need to repeat your own question and following statement back to you. "Why would you, as a user, care about document structure at all? What you need is the correct behavior, not structure." And it seems like to get the correct behavior, we may have to not use the "best practice" of having it in defs and modify our structure... unless you have any other suggestions.
-Josh