Re: [Inkscape-devel] Tango icons as default set
Aaron Spike wrote:
Could you please include the Tango toolbar before your modifications in the picture for comparison?
Yes, I uploaded a new version with some corrections and the comparison of the three sets. http://www.ohweb.com.ar/screenshots/Inkscape/Tango-Icons-Colors.png
The icons file: http://www.ohweb.com.ar/screenshots/Inkscape/tango-icons-colors.svg.tar.gz
Bulia Byak wrote:
That is better. Though I think now there's too much color in the shape tools. Especially the 3D box is too dark and saturated.
I lowered the saturation of the 3D box and made it lighter, it blends better to the rest of the tools now.
Do we really need to have white lines in Pen/Pencil, Calligraphic, and Spiral? Is it against some guidelines to draw crisp, visible black lines, which would also match the default style of these tools? (they draw black lines, not white!)
I also made the lines dark. The problem with this (or just black) is how the theme works in dark GTK themes. The black or dark lines disappear. Although I changed those lines and made them dark, the white line with outline strokes work better both in light and dark gtk themes. I'd change them back to white.
With this comparison, I cannot help noticing that it is definitely the Tango icons that look more childish, naive, clumsy - not our current set.
Both look childish. That's because of the colors. Now both look like a plastic children toy :) I have to admit that that's an opinion based on the current trends, not in an usability test. Of course different colors are easier to identify, but now the trend for design applications is to use desaturated interfases and icons. A multi-color icon theme looks cheap. Not because it is cheap, but it's something similar than when you watch an original Star Trek episode: all that lights and sounds looked high tech back on its days, but now they look old. (this metaphore is appliable to Knight Rider episodes too :-)
But, apart of the colors, the current set lacks sistematization. Some color guidelines, consistent usage of outlines, etc.
Sorry but this is how I see it. I would accept the change if the majority votes for it, but it will be a sad day for me when this happens.
No offense taken. I respect your opinion and I'd prefer to achieve a tango set that is acceptable for you rather than making you sad. :-) Anyway, it would be great if someone creates an UI for easy selection of themes, and it would be also great if someone takes the current oficial set and fixes it to make it more consistent.
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Guillermo Espertino <gespertino@...400...> wrote:
Do we really need to have white lines in Pen/Pencil, Calligraphic, and Spiral? Is it against some guidelines to draw crisp, visible black lines, which would also match the default style of these tools? (they draw black lines, not white!)
I also made the lines dark. The problem with this (or just black) is how the theme works in dark GTK themes. The black or dark lines disappear.
Then why not make it black middle, white outline? That would be much crisper than those thick gray spaghetti :)
With this comparison, I cannot help noticing that it is definitely the Tango icons that look more childish, naive, clumsy - not our current set.
Both look childish. That's because of the colors. Now both look like a plastic children toy :)
But the old set copes much better with color thanks to its strong, graphic black outline. It's the outline that holds them together graphically, color is just a decoration. With the anemic outline-less Tango ones, color indeed mostly fails. There's nothing to hang that color on, basically :)
On 2009-January-27 , at 06:26 , bulia byak wrote:
With this comparison, I cannot help noticing that it is definitely the Tango icons that look more childish, naive, clumsy - not our current set.
Both look childish. That's because of the colors. Now both look like a plastic children toy :)
But the old set copes much better with color thanks to its strong, graphic black outline. It's the outline that holds them together graphically, color is just a decoration. With the anemic outline-less Tango ones, color indeed mostly fails. There's nothing to hang that color on, basically :)
The design principle of Tango, as far as I can tell, is to use a different value of the same hue for the stroke. You can see in the Tango color swatches[1] that there are three swatches for each color/ hue. You are supposed to use the central one for the main color and surround it with two strokes of the lighter then darker versions (so that the icon works well on light or dark backgrounds). This, to me, gives their distinctive look to the Tango icons. In some cases, I find that it works well in holding the central color and giving the icon some consistency (see the blue rectangle for example). I agree that the outline could be made a bit darker in some other icons and this is within the Tango guidelines: "The common practice when drawing icons is to use the palette as a base, applying it on large areas. Shading with gradients, creating highlight and shadows by changing value, and minor changes of saturation are also allowed and endorsed. Colors do not have to come exclusively from this set, as additional colors may be used. Starting from the base color and changing value, saturation or even hue slightly gives more consistant results than starting from arbitrary colors."
I would suggest lowering the value for the dark outline of the following icons: zoom 3d box star flow fill (the bucket in particular) connector pipette (the glass part in particular) This would probably make them more coherent with the current theme.
[1] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Color_Palette and included as a swatches palette with Inkscape
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
Some more opinions about the icons. As if you need any more... but here goes:
Pros for the new: - I think the new finger icon is much better than the current tsunami icon. I'm always surprised when I hover over the tsunami and find it means "tweak". - The new 3D box is better than the current one. The view-from-below perspective on the current one is disconcerting and doesn't match with the perspective used in any other icon. The color on the old one is maybe a tad nicer, though (less dark as Bulia said) - The heavy black outline on the current circle always looks badly aliased. The softer edge on the new one avoids that nicely.
Pros for the current: - The ink/pencil lines look better in black than the new white or gray. I think Bulia's suggestion of just putting a light colored outline around the thin black lines sounds like a good one if contrast is a problem with the current lines. - The pen/pencil/cal tools look more 3d in the current set. The tool is proportionally too small in the new ones, I'd say, leaving not enough pixels to give them a nice 3d appearance, and making it harder to distinguish one from the other.
Tie for the lose: - The old eraser has a more eraser-like aspect ratio. But it looks more like a flat rectangle than an eraser. The new one has an un-eraser like aspect ratio (too square) but it at least looks like a physical object. - Both gradient icons look very little like they are creating a gradient to me. The subtle green-to-light green transition is just too subtle. Maybe a blue to yellow gradient would be a little more obvious. And also for the new one, making the outline the same color makes it look like the whole square is a highlighted button or something instead of a rectangle with a gradient fill.
For the rest I'd say both versions look just fine to me. I did *not* like the gray Tango ones because it looks to me like half of them are disabled, since half *do* have some color. Either they should all have color or none should, in my opinion.
--bb
Hello
I am a simple (non-professional or non-expert) user of Inkscape and I am watching the Tango icon discussion.
I like the simplicity of the default Inkscape icons, especially the ones where a lot of shapes are involved (alignment, node editing etc). I don't think they are childish or unprofessional but I see the point that they could have a round of unification or refreshment.
To be honest I haven't read the Tango guidelines, and there might be interesting to implement features. However, they look kinda washed off and this is not specific to the new proposed icon set. Gimp looks the same to me; I got used to it and I navigate around intuitively, but they still seem a bit washed off for my tastes. On the other hand the new proposed icon set has some good ideas (see below).
----------------
I gave a try to refresh of the default icon set based on ideas I had gathered from my personal Inkscape experience.
Screenshot: http://infolab.cs.unipi.gr/people/katsikaros/projects/inkscape/default-tango...
The set: http://infolab.cs.unipi.gr/people/katsikaros/projects/inkscape/default-refre...
Idea: Use color in order to provide information, whenever it really adds value and it shows that you do sth with the colored area. I keep the blue and blue/yellow colors in objects inside the icon as I feel that they provide valuable information and in the same time contrast. Examples: - the shapes are recognized from their contour - the bucket itself doesn't need to be blue (blue is already used very consistently in other parts like alignment, storke/fill). - I like the fact that the star-polygon toolbar has the star and polygon in yellow since they make them stand out.
Changes: -Shapes -Bucket -Selection bottom/up/etc (removed the gradient from the highlighted bars, they are far too small)
From the proposed Tango set I stole :) things I liked a lot such as: 3d tool: - main toolbar icon - x,y,z icons (that was smart!) draw_tweak: - main toolbar icon - blue in the black icons ( <-- will do that, didn't have the time)
TODO: - I don't have a devel version now and there is no eraser icon. Could use the Tango one it's nice and more intuitive. - add a white contour around stand alone lines as bulia proposed for the Tango theme.
I would like to hear your comments and whether you like the refreshment. Do you think it is of interest?
Regards Vangelis Katsikaros
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participants (5)
-
Bill Baxter -
bulia byak -
Guillermo Espertino -
jiho -
Vangelis Katsikaros