Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients
Hi fellow inkscapers,
I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers, I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.
To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).
Tav
Hi Tavm
So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
--Victor Westmann
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,
I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.
To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).
Tav
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.
--Victor Westmann
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers, I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment. To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing). Tav
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net
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On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 20:50 +0200, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.
A feature could be done for that for the website, but it requires that the svg be embeded in the page and not just an <img tag. If browsers render the SVG then you can get away with an SVG in an img tag, which is much more secure.
So the website currently requires an administrator to turn on svg embedding per item. And the feature isn't exposed to users in any way, so there's no button that says "I see you're trying to use mesh gradients, do you want to apply for embedding review to turn on the pollyfil"
Anyone else got any ideas of how to safely operate user content so it does't hack our website 😉
Best Regards, Martin Owens
One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside the SVG itself optionally?
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 13 jul. 2018 20:52, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> escribió:
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.
--Victor Westmann
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers, I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment. To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing). Tav
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net
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Also we can use Houdini to render mesh gradients ;)
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 14 jul. 2018 3:27, en 3:27, Jabier Arraiza <jabier.arraiza@...2893...> escribió:
One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside the SVG itself optionally?
Enviado desde TypeApp
En 13 jul. 2018 20:52, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> escribió:
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript
"polyfill"
to their files that use meshes.
--Victor Westmann
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers, I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator
got
this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG
2.0
specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment. To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing). Tav
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
http://sdm.link/slashdot__________
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On Sat, 2018-07-14 at 03:25 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside the SVG itself optionally?
Still needs some work but handles fills without smoothing quite well:
http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/POLYFILL/MESH/mesh.html
Enviado desde TypeApp En 13 jul. 2018, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> escribió:
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm
So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.
--Victor Westmann
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,
I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.
To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).
Tav
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
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I seem to recall that Tavmjong addressed this in a blog entry, back when the decision was made to push gradient mesh into 0.92. Let's see if I can find the link....
Here's the one about SMIL: http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=1262
Here's the one about gradient mesh: http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=1554
Hhmm, that's not what I was thinking of. But I can't seem to find it. Maybe it wasn't his blog.... [banging head - arrgggh!] It must have been a mailing list thread.... You could probably use the dates of those blog posts to narrow down a search of the list archives, and find that thread. Sorry I don't have time to search just now.
I seem to recall that they were just thinking about not supporting gradient meshes though. Did you see some definite decision about it? I also thought removing SMIL was decided, so maybe you have some new info that I haven't heard yet? Or maybe I just had a misunderstanding?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Victor Westmann Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 10:05 PM To: Inkscape-Devel ; inkscape-user Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients
Hi fellow inkscapers,
I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi Brynn,
Thank you for the info and the links.
I believe that this might help us shed some light into SMIL and Chrome (for instance). https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/SVG/SVG_animation_with_SMIL which will lead you to this link: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/5o0yiO440LM... (which seems to have some important message from google folks).
And this other site seems to provide interesting coverage of the SMIL feature on most popular browser vendors. https://caniuse.com/#feat=svg-smil
Hope this helps somehow! Have a great day.
--Victor Westmann
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 3:51 PM, brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
I seem to recall that Tavmjong addressed this in a blog entry, back when the decision was made to push gradient mesh into 0.92. Let's see if I can find the link....
Here's the one about SMIL: http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=1262
Here's the one about gradient mesh: http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=1554
Hhmm, that's not what I was thinking of. But I can't seem to find it. Maybe it wasn't his blog.... [banging head - arrgggh!] It must have been a mailing list thread.... You could probably use the dates of those blog posts to narrow down a search of the list archives, and find that thread. Sorry I don't have time to search just now.
I seem to recall that they were just thinking about not supporting gradient meshes though. Did you see some definite decision about it? I also thought removing SMIL was decided, so maybe you have some new info that I haven't heard yet? Or maybe I just had a misunderstanding?
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Victor Westmann Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 10:05 PM To: Inkscape-Devel ; inkscape-user Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients
Hi fellow inkscapers,
I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.
But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?
I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
participants (5)
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unknown＠example.com -
brynn -
Jabier Arraiza -
Tavmjong Bah -
Victor Westmann