On 22-1-2012 23:14, Ivan Louette wrote:

Hello

As I wasn't able to add a mockup png image to the following blueprint I join it to this message.

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/inkscape/+spec/merging-export-and-create-bi...

Maybe you can rename the copy button to "Copy to clipboard"? That makes it easier for me too find. I was exactly looking for this functionality!

:) Johan

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

Thanks for the comment ; here it is !

I removed the "Export" button. It's now unnecessary because the command will be done by one of the three buttons on top.

I'm not sure I understand how that's supposed to work. Do I have to do my settings and afterwards confirm them with a button at the top of the dialog? If that's the case, then why is one of the buttons in a clicked state in the mockup? It looks more like some sort of tabs, so that the content of the dialog is changed with the top row of buttons.

TL;DR: IMO buttons to confirm the settings done in the dialog should be at the bottom.

[...]

ivan

Tobias

[...]

Here is the latest version of this mockup.

ivan

________________________________ De : Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Lundi 23 janvier 2012 14h15 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

Thanks for the comment ; here it is !

I removed the "Export" button. It's now unnecessary because the command will be done by one of the three buttons on top.

I'm not sure I understand how that's supposed to work. Do I have to do my settings and afterwards confirm them with a button at the top of the dialog? If that's the case, then why is one of the buttons in a clicked state in the mockup? It looks more like some sort of tabs, so that the content of the dialog is changed with the top row of buttons.

TL;DR: IMO buttons to confirm the settings done in the dialog should be at the bottom.

[...]

ivan

Tobias

[...]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

Create bitmap copy does correspond to the command Edit/Make bitmap copy which places a bitmap copy on top of the selected object in the document.

Copy to the Clipboard allows to share the bitmap copy with other programs too.

The "Flatten transparency" option creates a bitmap with an opaque background (which inherits the background color) like does the save png option.

My idea is to unify the settings and the capabilities between the three options (Create bitmap copy, Copy to Clipboard, Export bitmap) for more consistency. On the other hand my proposal adds some features I miss at the moment :

- You cannot export a bitmap with opaque background (you must go through Save png for that)

- Edit/Make a bitmap copy cannot create a copy with an opaque background

- Edit/Make a bitmap copy cannot copy the other objects parts shown inside the selected object bounding box

ivan

________________________________ De : Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Lundi 23 janvier 2012 16h36 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

Here is the latest version of this mockup.

ivan

That's way better.

Just one question: what's the difference between a bitmap copy and the export? Is one the current "Export bitmap" and the other the code path you use when using PNG in the save dialog? The latter never worked for me (because of missing transparency) so i'm not sure what the differences really are, but maybe they can be merged in a way that the user decides what he wants to have (like "get rid of the transparent bg") and not if he wants to use cairo to create the image or some other way.

---

De : Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Lundi 23 janvier 2012 14h15 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re :  Merging Export and Create bitmap

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

...

Thanks for the comment ; here it is !

I removed the "Export" button. It's now unnecessary because the command will be done by one of the three buttons on top.

I'm not sure I understand how that's supposed to work. Do I have to do my settings and afterwards confirm them with a button at the top of the dialog? If that's the case, then why is one of the buttons in a clicked state in the mockup? It looks more like some sort of tabs, so that the content of the dialog is changed with the top row of buttons.

TL;DR: IMO buttons to confirm the settings done in the dialog should be at the bottom.

[...]

...

ivan

Tobias

[...]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

Here is a proposal about alpha.

I used Flatten transparency to match the Gimp.

ivan

________________________________ De : Mark Schafer <mschafer@...2596...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mardi 24 janvier 2012 2h07 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

Could we change "flatten transparency" to "do not save alpha" or something that tells me there will be no alpha in image formats that support alpha. Obviously its difficult as jpg etc don't save it. But the word flatten can mean to collapse a number of layers into a single layer so its confusing IMHO.

Cheers, Mark...

On 1/24/2012 7:33 AM, Ivan Louette wrote: Create bitmap copy does correspond to the command Edit/Make bitmap copy which places a bitmap copy on top of the selected object in the document.

Copy to the Clipboard allows to share the bitmap copy with other programs too.

The "Flatten transparency" option creates a bitmap with an opaque background (which inherits the background color) like does the save png option.

My idea is to unify the settings and the capabilities between the three options (Create bitmap copy, Copy to Clipboard, Export bitmap) for more consistency. On the other hand my proposal adds some features I miss at the moment :

- You cannot export a bitmap with opaque background (you must go through Save png for that)

- Edit/Make a bitmap copy cannot create a copy with an opaque background

- Edit/Make a bitmap copy cannot copy the other objects parts shown inside the selected object bounding box

ivan

---

De : Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Lundi 23 janvier 2012 16h36 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

...

Here is the latest version of this mockup.

ivan

That's way better.

Just one question: what's the difference between a bitmap

copy and the export?

Is one the current "Export bitmap" and the other the code

path you use when

using PNG in the save dialog? The latter never worked for me

(because of

missing transparency) so i'm not sure what the differences

really are, but

maybe they can be merged in a way that the user decides what

he wants to have

(like "get rid of the transparent bg") and not if he wants

to use cairo to

create the image or some other way.

...

---

De : Tobias Ellinghaus <houz@...173...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Lundi 23 janvier 2012 14h15 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re :  Merging Export and

Create bitmap

...

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2012 schrub Ivan Louette:

...

Thanks for the comment ; here it is !

I removed the "Export" button. It's now

unnecessary because the command

...

...

will be done by one of the three buttons on top.

I'm not sure I understand how that's supposed to work.

Do I have to do my

...

settings and afterwards confirm them with a button at

the top of the

...

dialog? If that's the case, then why is one of the

buttons in a clicked

...

state in the mockup? It looks more like some sort of

tabs, so that the

...

content of the dialog is changed with the top row of

buttons.

...

TL;DR: IMO buttons to confirm the settings done in the dialog

should be at the

...

bottom.

[...]

...

ivan

Tobias

[...]

---

Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft

developers

is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5,

CSS3, MVC3,

Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you

subscribe now!

http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

---

Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2

Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

It'd be great if we can remove the coordinates from the three first selections. Page, Drawing and Selection have no need to see those and they do increase use fear about the complexity of the interface.

I'd also add a preview, but I don't know if that's feasible.

Martin,

On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 08:13 +0000, Ivan Louette wrote:

Here is a proposal about alpha.

Thanks ! I was not aware of that ! But then the Save Cairo png format should take account of the background color and this isn't the case.

On the other hand if you have for example a semi-transparent red background color you cannot export an opaque bitmap with a background color which matches the tint of the semi-transparent red. You must open your png image in Gimp and remove alpha channel there. My proposal remove this additional step.

However that doesn't solve the question for "Make bitmap copy" which never take account of the background or the unselected objects in the area.

There are no reasons to treat differently "Export bitmap" and "Make bitmap copy" (or the "Copy to clipboard I add to the possibilities in my mockup).

ivan

________________________________ De : Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...528...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mardi 24 janvier 2012 9h47 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

On 23-01-12 19:33, Ivan Louette wrote:

...     - You cannot export a bitmap with opaque background (you must go through Save png for that)

You can, if the document has an opaque background the png will have an opaque background as well. If for some reason you want an SVG file with a transparent background, but export it with an opaque background, then you are right that export bitmap does not do that.

To clarify, if you go to the document properties, then on the first tab, almost at the top, you can select the background color. By default this color is transparent white. If you set this to opaque white you will get an opaque white background in your pngs as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

On 24-01-12 15:31, Ivan Louette wrote:

Thanks ! I was not aware of that ! But then the Save Cairo png format should take account of the background color and this isn't the case.

True. Actually, I'm not sure why we have that format (I think I remember that it came up before on the mailing list, but I forgot the reason for its existence).

On the other hand if you have for example a semi-transparent red background color you cannot export an opaque bitmap with a background color which matches the tint of the semi-transparent red. You must open your png image in Gimp and remove alpha channel there. My proposal remove this additional step.

My point is, if you want the SVG to have a semi-transparent red background, why shouldn't the PNG? If you want an easy method to change a semitransparent background to an opaque background with the same look (assuming that the background is drawn over a white "backbackground"), why not create a button/extension to do that, why link it to bitmap export?

However that doesn't solve the question for "Make bitmap copy" which never take account of the background or the unselected objects in the area.

There are no reasons to treat differently "Export bitmap" and "Make bitmap copy" (or the "Copy to clipboard I add to the possibilities in my mockup).

Indeed, and "not taking into account the background" is exactly that behaviour. Basically "export to bitmap" gives you a bitmap version of the entire drawing, while "make bitmap copy" gives you a bitmap version of some object (which naturally does not contain a background).

I'm not saying that your proposal is a bad idea (in fact, I quite like the idea of consolidating these different features), just trying to understand why you wish to do something special with the alpha channel.

Interesting solution too !

________________________________ De : Jon Cruz <jon@...18...> À : Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...528...> Cc : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mardi 24 janvier 2012 17h34 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Re : Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

On Jan 24, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Jasper van de Gronde wrote:

Indeed, and "not taking into account the background" is exactly that behaviour. Basically "export to bitmap" gives you a bitmap version of the entire drawing, while "make bitmap copy" gives you a bitmap version of some object (which naturally does not contain a background).

I was thinking that for clarity in the UI, one might go with "Duplicate as bitmap" instead of "Create bitmap copy" to compliment the existing "Duplicate" menu item. Then "Copy as bitmap" could be the other choice that goes to clipboard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

I completed the Batch export feature with the proposal that if you choose "Make a bitmap copy" each object in a multiple selection get an individual bitmap copy. No change for the Copy to clipboard option.

ivan

________________________________ De : Jon Cruz <jon@...18...> À : Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...528...> Cc : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mardi 24 janvier 2012 17h34 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Re : Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

On Jan 24, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Jasper van de Gronde wrote:

Indeed, and "not taking into account the background" is exactly that behaviour. Basically "export to bitmap" gives you a bitmap version of the entire drawing, while "make bitmap copy" gives you a bitmap version of some object (which naturally does not contain a background).

I was thinking that for clarity in the UI, one might go with "Duplicate as bitmap" instead of "Create bitmap copy" to compliment the existing "Duplicate" menu item. Then "Copy as bitmap" could be the other choice that goes to clipboard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

I give you a simple example of use of removing transparency while creating a bitmap copy : you want visually isolate some area, move it slightly and give it a shadow like if it was detached on top of the page like a scree capture. At the moment you need several operations to do it, specially if you want an opaque background.

(But of course one could also imaginate a "Drag and release" style Clip or Mask which accelerates the process...!)

Imagine also that you want break your drawing in multiple pieces (with opaque background) and scatter them.

Lots of possibilities could be offered by removing transparency (and taking account of the apparent color of the background of course).

ivan

________________________________ De : Jasper van de Gronde <th.v.d.gronde@...528...> À : inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mercredi 25 janvier 2012 9h40 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re : Re : Merging Export and Create bitmap

On 24-01-12 19:53, Ivan Louette wrote:

I persist to think that allowing to unify all kind of bitmap creation settings could be a great facility ! In Xara (the commercial version) exporting bitmaps and creating bitmap copies have exactly the same dialog box. I used it a lot in the past and that's fantastic for productivity for example when you must create lots of small bitmaps for brushes or scattering.

Completely agree, this part is totally fantastic.

About background opacifying two filters do it : Flatten transparency and Fill Background (the latter even allows to fill background with an image).

But what I would see in Inkscape is a true "quick area resterizing" which could work with or without transparency. But this kind of "area capture" could be done also as an instant bitmap conversion of a clipped or masked area (however at the moment this isn't possible with Mask because of the SVG1 alpha problem) The two in one Clip and rasterize would be a very productive feature !

I understand, but why does this need to remove transparency and/or add a background that wasn't even there? What's the use case? In the end, if you or others feel it's necessary to have this extra option, fine. I just suspect that it might really be something else that's wanted, that's why I'm asking about this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel