I've here at Free Software Day (Boston) and have just completed a panel on the economics of Free Software development. Something which came up and something I want to have a serious discussion about is the implementation of an opportunity to donate screen like libreOffice:
http://donate.libreoffice.org/home/dl/deb-x86_64/4.3.1/en-US/LibreOffice_4.3...
If one clicks on this link, it waits a few seconds and gives you the file. But as well as the file it also offers you an opportunity to donate/contribute to the project.
I'd like to implement this for inkscape.org but it would have to be blessed by the community since other developers are users may have valid concerns which should be taken into account with this format.
Things I'm thinking about:
* Making sure we have suggested amounts * Offering something in return? Maybe offer an ability to buy swag? * What is SFC's position on these kinds of pages? * Have an invitation to contribute other things. Time, bug tracking etc? * Give donators a badge on their website user?
I'm looking for any contribution to this discussion, good or bad. Please let me know what you think.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sat, 2014-09-20 at 16:59 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
I'd like to implement this for inkscape.org but it would have to be blessed by the community since other developers are users may have valid concerns which should be taken into account with this format.
Things I'm thinking about:
- Making sure we have suggested amounts
- Offering something in return? Maybe offer an ability to buy swag?
- What is SFC's position on these kinds of pages?
- Have an invitation to contribute other things. Time, bug tracking etc?
- Give donators a badge on their website user?
I'm looking for any contribution to this discussion, good or bad. Please let me know what you think.
I think that's fine in general, the concern on SFC's part has been whether we're going against our mission as building Inkscape as Free Software.
For instance, we discussed having a "donation edition" in the various app stores that could, that could include extra templates or extensions. They were concerned that in those cases we could be seen as having a different version of the software (open core, per se) that we were selling. I think even that could be doable, we'd just have to figure out how to walk that line.
But, I don't think that anything you've suggested walks on that line and as long as it's a separate download or purchase independent of the download of Inkscape I don't think we have any issues.
I think that one issue we may have is that the download page is largely owned by Soureforge at the moment, we send someone there, but the page itself is their advertising. I'm not sure putting it at the page before the page where you download would be as effective as I think that you're trying to leverage the fact that they're waiting to see the opportunity to contribute.
Ted
On Sat, 2014-09-20 at 22:44 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
I think that one issue we may have is that the download page is largely owned by Soureforge at the moment, we send someone there, but the page itself is their advertising. I'm not sure putting it at the page before the page where you download would be as effective as I think that you're trying to leverage the fact that they're waiting to see the opportunity to contribute.
The whole thing depends on moving downloads to our server. Because you're right and I forgot to add this tot he email, we should have better downloads anyway and be able to deactivate more of inkscape's sourceforge infrastructure.
Additional question:
* Should downloads/donations be tracked per language or operating system? Help us with stats?
Martin,
Only my personal vote :
- Making sure we have suggested amounts
OK
- Offering something in return?
No
- What is SFC's position on these kinds of pages?
Of course should be taken in consideration
- Have an invitation to contribute other things. Time, bug tracking etc?
OK
- Give donators a badge on their website user?
No
Like with Net Neutrality, I wouldn't like to see growing a two speed Inkscape.
ivan
On 20-9-2014 22:59, Martin Owens wrote:
I've here at Free Software Day (Boston) and have just completed a panel on the economics of Free Software development. Something which came up and something I want to have a serious discussion about is the implementation of an opportunity to donate screen like libreOffice:
http://donate.libreoffice.org/home/dl/deb-x86_64/4.3.1/en-US/LibreOffice_4.3...
If one clicks on this link, it waits a few seconds and gives you the file. But as well as the file it also offers you an opportunity to donate/contribute to the project.
I have seen this too, and personally was quite annoyed by it. Just now I tried again, and was less annoyed. If we present it well, I think I can live with it. I feel we have to be very careful in too aggressively promoting donations, avoiding any misunderstandings with our users.
I'd like to implement this for inkscape.org but it would have to be blessed by the community since other developers are users may have valid concerns which should be taken into account with this format.
Things I'm thinking about:
- Making sure we have suggested amounts
- Offering something in return? Maybe offer an ability to buy swag?
I am very much against a "quid-pro-quo" donation thing. I think it would be awesome if we have a shop where people can buy mugs, t-shirts, etc., and for that I would not be opposed to including a small donation per item. But that is very different from offering something in return for a donation.
- Have an invitation to contribute other things. Time, bug tracking etc?
Not a bad idea. Seems good to make people more aware of the possibility of providing bug reports / feedback.
- Give donators a badge on their website user?
I do not fully understand. You mean a badge on their inkscape.org user profile page?
- Johan
El dom, 21-09-2014 a las 19:04 +0200, Johan Engelen escribió:
On 20-9-2014 22:59, Martin Owens wrote:
I've here at Free Software Day (Boston) and have just completed a panel on the economics of Free Software development. Something which came up and something I want to have a serious discussion about is the implementation of an opportunity to donate screen like libreOffice:
http://donate.libreoffice.org/home/dl/deb-x86_64/4.3.1/en-US/LibreOffice_4.3...
If one clicks on this link, it waits a few seconds and gives you the file. But as well as the file it also offers you an opportunity to donate/contribute to the project.
Blender folks did something like that too at blender.org
http://www.blender.org/download/ (after you click your desired option, it starts the download but also offers the chance to make a donation).
Ubuntu has that too, but in a more intrusive way.
I think it's fine, as long as the free access to the software isn't hindered by it.
With the right phrasing, it could be an incentive for people to donate.
The key is to make it clear that the download will start anyway (regardless of your donation), but you can choose to "pay what you want" if you decide to donate. Not tricking people into donating thinking that they must pay to get the program (like Ubuntu does, imo), not annoying them or making them feel guilty if they don't choose to get it without donating.
Gez.
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Gez <listas@...3059...> wrote:
Blender folks did something like that too at blender.org
http://www.blender.org/download/ (after you click your desired option, it starts the download but also offers the chance to make a donation).
I think that's pretty tasteful and the users get what they're coming for with no unnecessary reading prior to getting it. If they stick around and continue to read, they can choose an option to support us if they want.
Cheers, Josh
On Sun, 2014-09-21 at 15:52 -0700, Josh Andler wrote:
http://www.blender.org/download/ (after you click your desired option, it starts the download but
also
offers the chance to make a donation).
I think that's pretty tasteful and the users get what they're coming for with no unnecessary reading prior to getting it. If they stick around and continue to read, they can choose an option to support us if they want.
That's a really good example of how I see our functionality. Plus it'll incentivise us to make our download page less sucky, which is a shame because it's 70% of our website hits.
I see something like "How can you help: " and "Donate to Inkscape, to improve inkscape we need your help to bug fix, write documentation, blah blah copy editor goes here etc" - and have similar bits for developers and other jobs much like the blender page.
Additional question:
* Should we ever display how much we've gotten? asked for? need? plan to spend?
I'm thinking of transparency and how most organisations who take donations doesn't really say what they're taking in. I really liked kickstarter or kickstarting an honesty about how much money is involved and how that's carried over to other sites like subbable.
Martin,
As an Inkscape user and subscriber to this list (not so much developer), my honest response: I would not like to see this. There must be other ways to make suggested donations more prominent, without throwing it up in users' faces? Such as put a tiny, or at most, small icon, in the Inkscape window, which links to the donation page, e.g.. Or maybe think about using fund-raising for new features, through KickStarter type of deal? I've seen other "freeware" doing that -- most recently, Tupi.
But if it does happen, my response to the 5 points:
-- Suggested amounts should start low enough not to offend "free software" users. (I'm thinking $5 or $10 (usd) for the low end) -- If there has to be "something in return", it should be tangible, not just an opportunity to spend more money (buy swag, i.e.). Although it never has made sense to me, to ask for donations, and give something in return....because the something in return is Inkscape....right? -- Does the donation page have to be on SF? -- Invitation to contribute other things.... why not, as long as you're putting donations in users' faces anyway? -- make the badge an option -- some donors (like philanthropists) like to be anonymous
Thanks :-)
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...400...> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:59 PM To: "Inkscape Devel List" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Paying for Downloads
I've here at Free Software Day (Boston) and have just completed a panel on the economics of Free Software development. Something which came up and something I want to have a serious discussion about is the implementation of an opportunity to donate screen like libreOffice:
http://donate.libreoffice.org/home/dl/deb-x86_64/4.3.1/en-US/LibreOffice_4.3...
If one clicks on this link, it waits a few seconds and gives you the file. But as well as the file it also offers you an opportunity to donate/contribute to the project.
I'd like to implement this for inkscape.org but it would have to be blessed by the community since other developers are users may have valid concerns which should be taken into account with this format.
Things I'm thinking about:
- Making sure we have suggested amounts
- Offering something in return? Maybe offer an ability to buy swag?
- What is SFC's position on these kinds of pages?
- Have an invitation to contribute other things. Time, bug tracking etc?
- Give donators a badge on their website user?
I'm looking for any contribution to this discussion, good or bad. Please let me know what you think.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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participants (7)
-
Brynn -
Gez -
ivan louette -
Johan Engelen -
Josh Andler -
Martin Owens -
Ted Gould