Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
Hi David Washington,
Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all).
This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.
Thanks,
Miguel Lopez
On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.netmailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington,
Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of *additional features* that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better *(That is if they even bother with that at all)*.
This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.
Thanks,
Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 <(206)%20605-2062> ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing listInkscape-devel@...1901...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
1. Exposure 2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
My 2p. Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington,
Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of *additional features* that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better *(That is if they even bother with that at all)*.
This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.
Thanks,
Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 <(206)%20605-2062> ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing listInkscape-devel@...1901...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug fixing for greater stability and speed).
--Victor Westmann
2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
- Exposure
- So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
My 2p. Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington,
Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of *additional features* that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better *(That is if they even bother with that at all)*.
This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.
Thanks,
Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 <(206)%20605-2062> ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing listInkscape-devel@...1901...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.
I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.
I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be inspired to listen to user's wants.
Which is bad.
These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about our project's appearance, cost and communication.
We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.
Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this project to a high standard.
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug fixing for greater stability and speed).
--Victor Westmann
2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
- Exposure
- So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
My 2p. Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...3445... m> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington, Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all). This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow. Thanks, Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
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If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.
Wait. Are you suggesting the $10 fee or suggested donation from users? Or are you suggesting MS pay us a fee? Haha!
In jest.
But really,
"If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange."
From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the
Windows store?
MS, Inkscape, Inkscape users?
Maybe considering who benefits more from having Inkscape in the store, should be considered?
Last thought.
From my primary role in the community, which is answering user questions in
forums (and now and then in the mailing list) having Inkscape in the Windows store will mean more *super newbies* asking questions.
Right now, people seek out Inkscape because they need vector graphics for their specific project. Putting Inkscape in the store will mean more casual, or simply curious users.
If the project is seriously considering this, in my humble opinion, the project needs to consider making itself easier for this kind of user to learn. Of course there are many ways that could be done (including the proposed new user-focussed manual). But right now, in my experience, the group who I think of as "super newbies" typically seem to find Inkscape is hard to learn.
So I wouldn't want Inkscape to gain such reputation, just because a lot of casual users haven't spent as much time as is needed to learn how to use it. I assume the Windows store has some easy buttons to rate the software?
All my opinion :-)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Owens Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:41 PM To: Victor Westmann ; C R Cc: dwashin@...3499... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.
I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.
I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be inspired to listen to user's wants.
Which is bad.
These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about our project's appearance, cost and communication.
We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.
Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this project to a high standard.
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug fixing for greater stability and speed).
--Victor Westmann
2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
- Exposure
- So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
My 2p. Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...3445... m> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington, Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all). This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow. Thanks, Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
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"From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the Windows store?"
If Inkscape can be ported into tightly locked down varient of Windows, then I'd imagine they'd be able to install Inkscape through the Store since desktop programs are not normally able to be installed there. People who wants a vector program through Surface RT, for example may have a use of this program. You might say that this applies to very few people, and I would agree with that, but that's still a small amount of people with no access to Inkscape as it is to be able to access Inkscape.
On 3/30/2017 5:57 AM, brynn wrote:
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.
Wait. Are you suggesting the $10 fee or suggested donation from users? Or are you suggesting MS pay us a fee? Haha!
In jest.
But really,
"If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange."
From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the Windows store?
MS, Inkscape, Inkscape users?
Maybe considering who benefits more from having Inkscape in the store, should be considered?
Last thought. From my primary role in the community, which is answering user questionsin forums (and now and then in the mailing list) having Inkscape in the Windows store will mean more *super newbies* asking questions.
Right now, people seek out Inkscape because they need vector graphics fortheir specific project. Putting Inkscape in the store will mean more casual, or simply curious users.
If the project is seriously considering this, in my humble opinion, the project needs to consider making itself easier for this kind of user to learn. Of course there are many ways that could be done (including the proposed new user-focussed manual). But right now, in my experience, the group who I think of as "super newbies" typically seem to find Inkscape is hard to learn.
So I wouldn't want Inkscape to gain such reputation, just because a lot of casual users haven't spent as much time as is needed to learn how to use it. I assume the Windows store has some easy buttons to rate the software?
All my opinion :-)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Owens Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:41 PM To: Victor Westmann ; C R Cc: dwashin@...3499... ; inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.
I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.
I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be inspired to listen to user's wants.
Which is bad.
These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about our project's appearance, cost and communication.
We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.
Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this project to a high standard.
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug fixing for greater stability and speed).
--Victor Westmann
2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
- Exposure
- So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
My 2p. Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
My 2p
On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <olof.bjarnason@...3445... m> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
Hi David Washington, Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all). This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow. Thanks, Miguel Lopez On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote: > Hi all, > > I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft > who wants to > help us simplify precesses on windows. > > Here is his email: > > === > David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this > afternoon I had > conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the > Inkscape app > to > the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs. > > The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop > apps with > little > or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking > advantage > of > the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the > Windows Store > also provides simplified options for automated updates, > easy > install > and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for > folks who may > have not found Inkscape before. > > Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that > we’d love > to > see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources > to help > with > the process of getting this ported using the Windows > Desktop Bridge > and > published to the Windows Store. The process itself is > lightweight, > and > our team is equipped help walk you through getting it > ported and > published. We’ve done some early investigation on the > Inkscape > binaries > and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published. > > If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can > get > together > on the phone and talk through the details for the next > steps of > getting > this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, > we’re > happy > to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to > work with > you on getting this published as early as next week. > > I look forward to working together. I’ve included some > folks from my > team who will be helping you. > > Thanks much, > David Washington > Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 > === > > Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff > on > windows, > could you take it from here if it seems interesting ? > > Thanks,
>
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This question has taken on some added importance with last week's release of Windows 10 S, a "tightly locked down" version of Windows that only runs applications from the Windows Store (1,2).
If Windows 10 S gains widespread traction in education (as the similarly positioned Chrome OS has), then the question of "who benefits" may eventually be a rather large audience.
Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?
1. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-s 2. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/microsoft-takes-on-ch...
On Mar 30, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
"From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the Windows store?"
If Inkscape can be ported into tightly locked down varient of Windows, then I'd imagine they'd be able to install Inkscape through the Store since desktop programs are not normally able to be installed there. People who wants a vector program through Surface RT, for example may have a use of this program. You might say that this applies to very few people, and I would agree with that, but that's still a small amount of people with no access to Inkscape as it is to be able to access Inkscape.
Windell H. Oskay, Ph.D. Co-Founder and Chief Scientist Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories 175 San Lazaro Ave, STE 150 Sunnyvale CA 94086 http://www.evilmadscientist.com/
The answer is probably "no" until Windows 10S proves to be something other than just another Windows RT.
If it's the same procedure as getting Inkscape in the Windows store for Windows 8/10, then I don't see why not. Someone is going to have to own one of these unenviable 10S devices to test however.
-C
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:44 AM, Windell H. Oskay <windell@...3474...> wrote:
This question has taken on some added importance with last week's release of Windows 10 S, a "tightly locked down" version of Windows that only runs applications from the Windows Store (1,2).
If Windows 10 S gains widespread traction in education (as the similarly positioned Chrome OS has), then the question of "who benefits" may eventually be a rather large audience.
Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?
- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-s
- https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/microsoft-takes-on-ch...
On Mar 30, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
"From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the Windows store?"
If Inkscape can be ported into tightly locked down varient of Windows, then I'd imagine they'd be able to install Inkscape through the Store since desktop programs are not normally able to be installed there. People who wants a vector program through Surface RT, for example may have a use of this program. You might say that this applies to very few people, and I would agree with that, but that's still a small amount of people with no access to Inkscape as it is to be able to access Inkscape.
Windell H. Oskay, Ph.D. Co-Founder and Chief Scientist Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories 175 San Lazaro Ave, STE 150 Sunnyvale CA 94086 http://www.evilmadscientist.com/
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On Wed, 2017-05-10 at 21:44 -0700, Windell H. Oskay wrote:
Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?
If you think about the word "support" it sounds awfully like there's a bunch of resource behind said endorsement to help people and ensure quality.
We try our best of course, but this loose confederation of people doesn't have anything but good will to support any operating system. So in terms of a commercial product, we support no system. (I just want to make this part clear)
If someone created a version of Inkscape for the Atari, I'd probably put it up on the website. Given some basic checking that it was a real thing. It wouldn't be top billing or anything, but that'd be the kind of "support" we'd offer.
And this is an os store, we don't need to host anything.
Without a relationship between Microsoft and the Conservancy and some sort of board vote for accepting money from the store. There's just no business relationship there, so anyone could support the Inkscape build into the Microsoft store, even Microsoft themselves could. We could hold the keys in some special place, or have a repository of build scripts which placate the store's installer, but that's about as much "support" as we'd be capable of offering.
So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go right ahead and start building that. I'll try and help with what raw support we can offer, but it's something that needs the meat of time from a dedicated person (or people).
Best Regards, Martin Owens
In that case, either Windell H. Oskay, and/or Microsoft can put Inkscape into the store, and especially if Windows 10S proves to be something that's not like the original Windows 10. Also, Windows 10S seem to be very much like the locked down version made for educational systems, parents who don't know much about computers (I wish my parents knew what linux is and cared for it since they don't know security which is what Windows 10 users top priority should be), and businesses. It'll be a Windows OS that patches so many holes that things like Comodo Internet Security, Avira, and so on aren't needed. I'm for it for W10S users to gain access to Inkscape.
On 5/11/2017 1:06 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2017-05-10 at 21:44 -0700, Windell H. Oskay wrote:
Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?
If you think about the word "support" it sounds awfully like there's a bunch of resource behind said endorsement to help people and ensure quality.
We try our best of course, but this loose confederation of people doesn't have anything but good will to support any operating system. So in terms of a commercial product, we support no system. (I just want to make this part clear)
If someone created a version of Inkscape for the Atari, I'd probably put it up on the website. Given some basic checking that it was a real thing. It wouldn't be top billing or anything, but that'd be the kind of "support" we'd offer.
And this is an os store, we don't need to host anything.
Without a relationship between Microsoft and the Conservancy and some sort of board vote for accepting money from the store. There's just no business relationship there, so anyone could support the Inkscape build into the Microsoft store, even Microsoft themselves could. We could hold the keys in some special place, or have a repository of build scripts which placate the store's installer, but that's about as much "support" as we'd be capable of offering.
So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go right ahead and start building that. I'll try and help with what raw support we can offer, but it's something that needs the meat of time from a dedicated person (or people).
Best Regards, Martin Owens
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JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known problem with gtk2)
The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's manageable to maintain.
Mc, because Eduard uploaded a screenshot to the website, I had a chance to see what it looks like - may I ask you where the 'support' link goes?
Also, I'd like to know if it would be okay to add a note to the Windows download page - just to have an indication on the website that that download is legit, too.
Maren
Am 11.05.2017 um 21:55 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:
JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known problem with gtk2)
The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's manageable to maintain.
It goes to https://inkscape.org/en/learn/ which looked the most logical way to direct people asking for general inkscape support (you can test it on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h btw)
The "generic" image for windows store dl is https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53fce470e4b0374adfdd30bc/t/54764a68e4...
and the url it should go to can be either the store webpage, or better "ms-windows-store://pdp/?productid=9pd9bhglfc7h" which should open with the store application on windows
Am 11.05.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:
It goes to https://inkscape.org/en/learn/ which looked the most logical way to direct people asking for general inkscape support (you can test it on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h btw)
Thanks, yes, I agree, that's a very good choice :) If you remove the /en/, it will redirect to a page in the user's language, if available. Btw. what happened to the Inkscape logo there? It looks a bit strange with that huge dark rim.
(LOL, the shop tells me that 'This app does not work on your device.' If only they knew...)
The "generic" image for windows store dl is https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53fce470e4b0374adfdd30bc/t/54764a68e4...
and the url it should go to can be either the store webpage, or better "ms-windows-store://pdp/?productid=9pd9bhglfc7h" which should open with the store application on windows
As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere to the bottom of the Windows download page?
Maren
I don't think there is much I can do about it, it's likely the icon pulled from the package, but probably transformed with a very poor transparency support (converted at some point to a 1-bit alpha channel, I guess), so the filter in the inkscape icon looks ugly.
I'm CCing David, maybe they can fix it on their side :p
Am 11.05.2017 um 23:22 schrieb maren:
As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere to the bottom of the Windows download page?
Well, I still have my reservations, but I don't want to impose my principles on the project and as Mc put in the work to create the package I wont make a stand against it. ;-)
That being said, the reasons for using the Store version and the implications of it should be made clear, e.g. something along the lines of: "Are you using a platform that requires you to install software from Windows Store (e.g. Windows 10 S) or do you prefer to install the store version for some other reason? [Download it here]" "Please note that this version is not compatible with regular installations (your settings will be lost). Functionality might be limited and we can only offer reduced support."
Regards, Eduard
Thank you, Eduard and Marc! I've added it to the website with Eduard's note: https://inkscape.org/en/download/windows/
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 12.05.2017 um 00:10 schrieb Eduard Braun:
Am 11.05.2017 um 23:22 schrieb maren:
As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere to the bottom of the Windows download page?
Well, I still have my reservations, but I don't want to impose my principles on the project and as Mc put in the work to create the package I wont make a stand against it. ;-)
That being said, the reasons for using the Store version and the implications of it should be made clear, e.g. something along the lines of: "Are you using a platform that requires you to install software from Windows Store (e.g. Windows 10 S) or do you prefer to install the store version for some other reason? [Download it here]" "Please note that this version is not compatible with regular installations (your settings will be lost). Functionality might be limited and we can only offer reduced support."
Regards, Eduard
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This is great Marc,
As Maren said, we can decide how best to put it on the website for people who want to confirm it's the real deal.
Did you use a shared key or are you willing to hold onto that for now?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 21:55 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known problem with gtk2)
The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's manageable to maintain.
I just pushed the windows store credentials to the credentials repo
On 05/12/2017 02:44 AM, Martin Owens wrote:
This is great Marc,
As Maren said, we can decide how best to put it on the website for people who want to confirm it's the real deal.
Did you use a shared key or are you willing to hold onto that for now?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 21:55 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known problem with gtk2)
The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's manageable to maintain.
Let me recap part of this discussion:
1. Someone from Microsoft (not me) offered to help get Inkscape on the Windows store.
2. There was an ensuing discussion on this mailing list about that topic.
3. I contributed a data point to this discussion, noting that a new OS version requiring apps to use the Windows store was released last week.
4. Amongst the responses to this were some including that classic FOSS sentiment, "if you want it, go build it yourself." (Which, as Coding horror notes, sometimes means "F**k you.")
Now, Inkscape on the Windows store has never been a goal of mine.* I'm glad that it's there now, but it doesn't particularly affect _me_ one way or the other. This was not a feature request; I was merely trying to contribute a useful data point to a discussion underway.
However, I am disappointed in _us_ as a community, for responding this way to a discussion.
We've had discussions on this list in the past about ways to be considerate and welcoming, rather than just responding to feature requests with things like "patches welcome" -- and this wasn't even a feature request. It doesn't bother me (much) personally to have someone suggest that I go code something-- sometimes I do! -- but it does bother me (a lot) if our community thinks that this is an appropriate response.
Please, let us all collectively try to be more considerate and welcoming to others interested in improving Inkscape.
-Windell
(* Just saw the message from Marc Jeanmougin -- Looks like the question in the original discussion is moot, since Inkscape is already on the Windows store. Thank you for your work on this, Marc.)
On May 11, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Martin Owens <doctormo@...400...> wrote:
So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go right ahead and start building that.
On May 11, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...> wrote:
In that case, either Windell H. Oskay, and/or Microsoft can put Inkscape into the store, [...]
Windell H. Oskay, Ph.D. Co-Founder and Chief Scientist Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories 175 San Lazaro Ave, STE 150 Sunnyvale CA 94086 http://www.evilmadscientist.com/
If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange.
I'm not sure of Microsoft's Windows Store policies on this, but it might be possible to have Inkscape added to the store with two listings for the same binary: a regular free listing, and one priced at a recommended donation amount ($5, $10 or whatever).
Even with Microsoft's 30% cut, having a lower friction way that users can donate might bring in money that wouldn't otherwise get donated by users if they had to go through the website to find the donate page and think up an amount to donate.
Cheers, Tim
On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 12:25 +0100, Tim Sheridan wrote:
I'm not sure of Microsoft's Windows Store policies on this, but it might be possible to have Inkscape added to the store with two listings for the same binary: a regular free listing, and one priced at a recommended donation amount ($5, $10 or whatever).
That's an idea worth thinking about. It's been done in other places.
Even with Microsoft's 30% cut, having a lower friction way that users can donate might bring in money that wouldn't otherwise get donated by users if they had to go through the website to find the donate page and think up an amount to donate.
The only other place, would be inside the app itself. Which is fine, but we'd have to develop a few of those UI pieces to integrate the community better. Donations, forums, alerts about new versions etc.
Martin,
Hi,
-> David did not suggest it should be a paying app, it was Martin. David just offered help to put it up on windows store.
-> I'd be personally *very* *strongly* opposed to a paying app, the goal is to increase outreach, not to make the less tech-savvy users that do not know our website pay.
-> Being on the windows store is probably like being on the play store for android, not an endorsement from MS or has any link or integration with Office products, or any link with cloud saving. Just being available via a simple store search in windows, maybe be featured as a top (free) drawing app from time to time.
-> I guess we can put any description we'd like on the store page, including a suggested donation with the website link.
-> Inkscape is not in beta^^
-> kickstarter does not magically solve things. It can be planned if there is assurance that we will have the developer resources available to deliver results (in this case, that we would have people familiar with inkscape code ready to spend time paid full-time on the kickstarter).
The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth our while?
* Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place, so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion... * From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the biggest potential gains: People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was available on the Windows store. My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular. * Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite): o It would be yet another package that has to be maintained. o As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained without direct access to the file system. o The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which obviously might influence performance but more importantly could cause new bugs that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows specific bugs as it is.
As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with. Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be specific to the Windows store.
Regards, Eduard
P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though): To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have change much about that...)
A small gain of people using it is still something. There is two apps that I use that are found on Microsoft Store. Netflix and Xodo. Xodo is actually pretty much like a free version of Adobe Acrobat DC (Look it up, and enjoy), and does exactly what I need in Adobe Acrobat DC as a future product designer. As someone said, I think there was some misunderstandings thanks to Martin Owens and my CFS and the aftermath, and I don't think the original guy who sent us the e-mail suggests we must put a price tag. So, I think we need to put into a vote, and send him a formal e-mail after we made our decision.
On 3/29/2017 7:53 AM, Eduard Braun wrote: The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth our while?
* Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place, so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion... * From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the biggest potential gains: People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was available on the Windows store. My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular. * Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite): * It would be yet another package that has to be maintained. * As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained without direct access to the file system. * The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which obviously might influence performance but more importantly could cause new bugs that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows specific bugs as it is.
As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with. Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be specific to the Windows store.
Regards, Eduard
P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though): To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have change much about that...)
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Am 29.03.2017 um 15:38 schrieb Miguel Lopez:
A small gain of people using it is still something.
Yeah, but what gain would that be compared to people downloading Inkscape from inkscape.org (where they also find all the other important information they might need) like they are doing now? Unless somebody says "all the cool kids download software exclusively from the Windows store these days" (and assuming we want to have the cool kids on board ;-) ) I don't see it.
As someone said, I think there was some misunderstandings thanks to Martin Owens and my CFS and the aftermath, and I don't think the original guy who sent us the e-mail suggests we must put a price tag.
No misunderstanding from my side here, I just wanted to follow up on some things people said before. The fact that the mention of "Windows store" immediately triggers a discussion about taking money for Inkscape kind of underlines my point from the last mail: App stores unnecessarily encourage monetization of software - simply because it's easy to do so - which in my opinion is being quite harmful to the FLOSS community and therefore counters Inkscape's idealism.
Yes, the whole "app thing" is one of the several reasons I had for reverting from Windows 10 back to Windows 7. I was already planning a shift to Linux, but Windows 10 forced it on me sooner than I expected.
And I would not want Inkscape to be thought of as an "app". What I see as Windows' new apps, is cheap software with limited capabilities. Perhaps suitable for "the masses" (emphasis on "perhaps"). But anyone who values individuality, and thinking and making decisions for oneself, as opposed to being mindless sheep, following the flock to wherever they may go, can immediately see what is missing.
To repeat myself, I would not want Inkscape to be associated with Windows' "apps".
All my opinion :-)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Eduard Braun Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 5:53 AM To: Marc Jeanmougin ; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth our while?
Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place, so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion...
From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the
biggest potential gains: People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was available on the Windows store. My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular.
Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite):
It would be yet another package that has to be maintained. As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained without direct access to the file system. The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which obviously might influence performance but more importantly could cause new bugs that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows specific bugs as it is.
As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with. Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be specific to the Windows store.
Regards, Eduard
P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though): To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have change much about that...)
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Windows Desktop Bridge sounds like part of MS' route to the cloud, for Windows. It won't be a choice for Windows users, in the future. But that's a whole other topic.
I wouldn't mind if Inkscape was available in the Windows store, as long as it's still available for free.
I don't clearly understand why you're suggesting users pay a fee. Certainly I wouldn't want Inkscape to provide income for MS. Even if Inkscape can be offered in the Windows store for free, now, who's to say down the road, if MS decides to "take a cut" for the privilege of being in the store.
If it's a donation to the Inkscape project, that's a different story. Better yet a "suggested donation".
But still, if users can still get Inkscape for free on the Inkscape website, why should they pay for it somewhere else? I'm not following your logic for charging a fee.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Owens Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:24 PM To: Marc Jeanmougin ; Inkscape Devel List ; dwashin@...3499... Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
Thanks Mc,
This is very interesting.
I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important that's it's Free Software.
Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people forgo the store and download from us directly.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,
I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to help us simplify precesses on windows.
Here is his email:
=== David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had conversation with Marc about potentially publishing the Inkscape app to the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store also provides simplified options for automated updates, easy install and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may have not found Inkscape before.
Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy to accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with you on getting this published as early as next week.
I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my team who will be helping you.
Thanks much, David Washington Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062 ===
Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows, could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
Thanks,
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It seems to me there are two benefits of the Windows Store:
- Discoverability. You may not know a lot of people who use the app store, but you're probably coming from a biased perspective of an experienced computer developer. For less tech-savvy users, this is one way they discover new programs.
- Trust. Many users have rightly been warned against downloading and running arbitrary executables from the Internet. I think the Trust factor of Inkscape's official download pages is pretty good (certainly a step up from SourceForge with all its pop-up ads), but again: for new computer users, the Windows store is a strong marker that this is a real, safe program. (Which Microsoft enforces with signing requirements and sandboxing limitations.)
I would urge everyone not to get overly caught up in the "app" terminology. An app is just an application, a program, some software, renamed thanks to Apple's massive advertising campaign of the last decade. Yes, many modern apps also share other features (like relying on internet services), or a certain mobile-focused look & feel, but that isn't essential, and isn't what is being proposed here.
One way to think of the Windows Desktop Bridge seems to simply be a new installer package, one that plays well with the Windows store and modern notifications and update methods on Windows. Functionally, the main change is that the software is sandboxed when running, so that all file system access goes through the app wrapper.
Docs for Windows Desktop Bridge are here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/porting/desktop-to-uwp-root
My remaining questions would be:
- In addition to the development time required to initially set up the Windows Desktop Bridge (Which David at Microsoft has offered to help with), how much additional maintenance work will be created by having a second Windows installer package? How much administrative complexity will be created by working with the Windows store?
- Will Inkscape scripts & extensions still work with a sandboxed application? What about command line features? If some features won't be available, how will this be communicated to users? Could there be some way to let someone upgrade to "developer mode"?
- Does the Windows store provide an environment for successfully communicating the key features of the project, linking to additional resources, and requesting donations? Alternatively, as Martin suggested, could some of this information be more effectively integrated into the app itself (such as a splash screen on load)?
(I agree with Marc that putting an obligatory price on app store downloads would effectively be penalizing new or less-savvy users. If it is possible to add an optional donation to the download page, that would be great, but it shouldn't be free if downloaded from one site and paid from another.)
participants (13)
-
Amelia Bellamy-Royds -
brynn -
C R -
Eduard Braun -
Marc Jeanmougin -
maren -
Maren Hachmann -
Martin Owens -
Miguel Lopez -
Olof Bjarnason -
Tim Sheridan -
Victor Westmann -
Windell H. Oskay