http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-nodesculpting.png
An entirely new way of manipulating paths in Node tool is added in this version: Node sculpting. Normally, when you have several nodes selected and you drag one of them, all selected nodes move by the same amount. Now, if you Alt-drag one of the selected nodes, only that node is fully displaced; other selected nodes are moved less than the full amount, so that those farthest from the drag point remain stationary.
So, for example, if you select several nodes on a straight line and Alt+drag the middle selected node, the path will bend into a smooth bell-like curve. Nodes' handles are also adjusted correspondingly to keep the overall shape smooth and natural. (If you don't have enough nodes on a path fragment that you want to reshape in this way, just select the end nodes of that fragment and press Ins a few times to populate it with nodes.)
Moreover, node sculpting is sensitive to pressure of your tablet pen. If you press slightly, your curve will have a narrow sharp tip (i.e. the nearest neighbors of your dragged node will move only a bit); if you press hard, the curve's tip will be wide and blunt (i.e. the nearest neighbors will move almost as much as the dragged node). (Hint: to stop dragging without losing your shape, first release Alt and then lift the tip of the pen.)
There are many possible applications of the sculpting technique. To take a simple example, selecting all nodes of an ellipse-like shape and Alt+dragging one of them will smoothly and naturally stretch and skew the entire shape in any direction. Doing the same to a complex path, such as star or spiral, will twist and punch it without destroying its intricate structure - this is the way to get squashed or self-intersecting stars, eccentric spirals and other shapes not easily doable before. Selecting only part of all nodes allows you to smoothly reshape parts of the figure without disturbing the rest.
Especially useful node sculpting is for complex natural paths, such as calligraphic strokes or bitmap traces, where you often want to do large-scale pushes and bends without destroying the small-scale features. Things like making a calligraphic stroke narrower in one place and wider in another, or extending the ear or flattening the nose of a head, or any other reshaping of complex paths - all this is now much faster and more natural to do using sculpting. Starting from en ellipse with added nodes, it takes just a few Alt+drags to tweak it into a silhouette of a head, or a map of Australia, or an Inkscape logo!
aw man, you implemented soft selection? Bulia, I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, but you rock man! Sounds great, looks great from the screenshot, cant wait for my svn to finish building so i can have a play.
Cheers
Sim
--- bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> wrote:
http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-nodesculpting.png
An entirely new way of manipulating paths in Node tool is added in this version: Node sculpting. Normally, when you have several nodes selected and you drag one of them, all selected nodes move by the same amount. Now, if you Alt-drag one of the selected nodes, only that node is fully displaced; other selected nodes are moved less than the full amount, so that those farthest from the drag point remain stationary.
So, for example, if you select several nodes on a straight line and Alt+drag the middle selected node, the path will bend into a smooth bell-like curve. Nodes' handles are also adjusted correspondingly to keep the overall shape smooth and natural. (If you don't have enough nodes on a path fragment that you want to reshape in this way, just select the end nodes of that fragment and press Ins a few times to populate it with nodes.)
Moreover, node sculpting is sensitive to pressure of your tablet pen. If you press slightly, your curve will have a narrow sharp tip (i.e. the nearest neighbors of your dragged node will move only a bit); if you press hard, the curve's tip will be wide and blunt (i.e. the nearest neighbors will move almost as much as the dragged node). (Hint: to stop dragging without losing your shape, first release Alt and then lift the tip of the pen.)
There are many possible applications of the sculpting technique. To take a simple example, selecting all nodes of an ellipse-like shape and Alt+dragging one of them will smoothly and naturally stretch and skew the entire shape in any direction. Doing the same to a complex path, such as star or spiral, will twist and punch it without destroying its intricate structure - this is the way to get squashed or self-intersecting stars, eccentric spirals and other shapes not easily doable before. Selecting only part of all nodes allows you to smoothly reshape parts of the figure without disturbing the rest.
Especially useful node sculpting is for complex natural paths, such as calligraphic strokes or bitmap traces, where you often want to do large-scale pushes and bends without destroying the small-scale features. Things like making a calligraphic stroke narrower in one place and wider in another, or extending the ear or flattening the nose of a head, or any other reshaping of complex paths - all this is now much faster and more natural to do using sculpting. Starting from en ellipse with added nodes, it takes just a few Alt+drags to tweak it into a silhouette of a head, or a map of Australia, or an Inkscape logo!
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid%120709&bid&3057&... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-user mailing list Inkscape-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Sun, 14 May 2006, John Cliff wrote:
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 01:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John Cliff <simarilius@...36...> To: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Re: [Inkscape-user] NEW: node sculpting
aw man, you implemented soft selection?
You call it "soft selection" and bulia called it "node sculpting". Are either of these terms used by existing applications to describe the same exactly the same behaviour?
Avoiding unncessary new terminology will help keep the learning curve less steep, and if the terminology is to be changed now - when it is new - is the time to change it.
On 5/14/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
You call it "soft selection" and bulia called it "node sculpting". Are either of these terms used by existing applications to describe the same exactly the same behaviour?
I don't know if it is the same - at least in vector editors I never saw "soft selection", it seems to be a 3D term. But even if it's similar, I really find it way too confusing to use - it makes me think that I have to select nodes in some special "soft" way which is not the case. The selection is just regular selection, it's not "soft" by itself. This feature is about what you do _to_ selection, so "sculpting" is much more to the point.
--- bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> wrote:
On 5/14/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
You call it "soft selection" and bulia called it "node sculpting".
Are
either of these terms used by existing applications to describe the
same
exactly the same behaviour?
I don't know if it is the same - at least in vector editors I never saw "soft selection", it seems to be a 3D term. But even if it's similar, I really find it way too confusing to use - it makes me think that I have to select nodes in some special "soft" way which is not the case. The selection is just regular selection, it's not "soft" by itself. This feature is about what you do _to_ selection, so "sculpting" is much more to the point.
Its not that your selecting it in a 'soft' way, its that it behaves like a soft body when you move it rather than a rigid body. It is mainly a 3d term and i agree, sculpting is a more immediately understandable name for it. Dont really care what we call it, just glad to have it :)
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Tue, 16 May 2006, John Cliff wrote:
On 5/14/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
You call it "soft selection" and bulia called it "node sculpting". Are either of these terms used by existing applications to describe the same exactly the same behaviour?
I don't know if it is the same - at least in vector editors I never saw "soft selection", it seems to be a 3D term. But even if it's similar, I really find it way too confusing to use - it makes me think that I have to select nodes in some special "soft" way which is not the case. The selection is just regular selection, it's not "soft" by itself. This feature is about what you do _to_ selection, so "sculpting" is much more to the point.
Its not that your selecting it in a 'soft' way, its that it behaves like a soft body when you move it rather than a rigid body. It is mainly a 3d term and i agree, sculpting is a more immediately understandable name for it. Dont really care what we call it, just glad to have it :)
Initially I was thinking this could succinctly be described as a warp tool - making it in to a whole seperate tool might provide a way to avoid any awkward fiddling around with Alt+Click.
I was hoping users of Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw might tell us what term those applications use. Adobe does seem to have some kind of warp tools but without having a copy of it myself I cannot be sure if the functionality is similar but it might provide ideas on how to present the same underlyign functionality to users in an easier way.
On 5/17/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Initially I was thinking this could succinctly be described as a warp tool
- making it in to a whole seperate tool might provide a way to avoid any
awkward fiddling around with Alt+Click.
I disagree. Let's not go down the Adobe Illustrator path which has a separate "tool" for each single kind of action. This is just stupid UI, and is way more awkward and inconvenient than any modifiers. Node sculpting is a way to reshape paths by moving their nodes in a special way, so it rightly belongs in the Node tool.
On Wed, 17 May 2006, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 01:41:04 -0300 From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re: [Inkscape-user] NEW: node sculpting
On 5/17/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Initially I was thinking this could succinctly be described as a warp tool
- making it in to a whole seperate tool might provide a way to avoid any
awkward fiddling around with Alt+Click.
I disagree.
Dont you always.
Let's not go down the Adobe Illustrator path which has a separate "tool" for each single kind of action.
It isn't perfect but think about it a bit more and you might realise they must have had some reason for doing it that way.
This is just stupid UI, and is way more awkward and inconvenient than any modifiers.
To dimiss it so quickly is stupid. For one thing serperate tool approach only requires one hand, holding down a modifier can be very inconvenient. Plenty of able bodied users struggle with modifiers too but I think especially if you are using a pen and tablet (or really have only have one arm) this would be an easier system to get to grips with. Discovering the a modifier and node sculpting functionality exists might also be difficult for beginners.
The current approach may be the best approach for you and in fact probably for most users but try not to be so dimissive just because you cannot think of why an alternate approach might be useful, it only make you look foolish.
Node sculpting is a way to reshape paths by moving their nodes in a special way, so it rightly belongs in the Node tool.
Given the lack of response from anyone else it does seem like there is no obvious existing terminology to cover this but I did think it was worth bringing up since so many posters described the feature differently.
If anyone besides me thought there might be a better term than 'node sculpting' I expect they would have spoken up by now so I'll let it go but you need to at least consider these suggestions, or risk getting stuck in local maximum.
On 5/17/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Let's not go down the Adobe Illustrator path which has a separate "tool" for each single kind of action.
It isn't perfect but think about it a bit more and you might realise they must have had some reason for doing it that way.
Alan, you have recently linked from our wiki an excellent critique of Illustrator which summarizes most of my own sentiment:
http://adventisti.lv/blog/?page_id=19
And I could add much, much more. In my view, AI is an example of an atrocious usability design in most of its aspects. Unfortunately, the majority of users care very little about usability and are happy to use what they were taught to use.
To dimiss it so quickly is stupid. For one thing serperate tool approach only requires one hand, holding down a modifier can be very inconvenient.
A professional who works with only one hand is seriously disadvanatged, to put it mildly. And a newbie will have no problem pressing just one modifier key, if it's documented well. I'm not inventing Emacs-like 10-key combos here.
On Wed, 17 May 2006, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:54:53 -0400 From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Re: [Inkscape-user] NEW: node sculpting
On 5/17/06, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
Let's not go down the Adobe Illustrator path which has a separate "tool" for each single kind of action.
It isn't perfect but think about it a bit more and you might realise they must have had some reason for doing it that way.
Alan, you have recently linked from our wiki an excellent critique of Illustrator which summarizes most of my own sentiment:
I found that while looking for something else and it is more than just a rant, it is well reasoned rant. Keep in mind he is a dedicated Corel user but I think his points about Adobe failing to keep their own products consistent were very strong.
And I could add much, much more. In my view, AI is an example of an atrocious usability design in most of its aspects. Unfortunately, the
Maybe but it is the dominant application and I think it is well worth looking at so as to increase the chances of copying the bits users do actually like, and seizing opportunities to get people to switch. (I'm probably being overly optimistic here but it seems worth considering.)
majority of users care very little about usability and are happy to use what they were taught to use.
If only more users did actually get taught! Most wade right in as best they can, and a rare few actually read the manual if they cannot figure things out through guesswork.
It seems like most users struggle to use computers but never learn to type. I'm regularly surprised by the level of basic literacy I encounter with many users not knowing what a colon is, let alone knowing how to type.
To dimiss it so quickly is stupid. For one thing serperate tool approach only requires one hand, holding down a modifier can be very inconvenient.
A professional who works with only one hand is seriously disadvanatged,
Alexandre was just commenting on another list how it dangerous to _require_ users to use both hands. Is is not more like real drawing to only require the use of one hand?
It is an advantage to be able to optionally use modifiers but requiring them is not good for everyone (accessibility, discoverability).
pressing just one modifier key, if it's documented well. I'm not inventing Emacs-like 10-key combos here.
"It could be worse!" :(
Multiple keybindings can be great for advanced users and of course documentation helps. However it is good for some users to be able to use these tools without the requiring manual dexterity needed to use multiple keybindings. (It is accessability in the general sense but there are other ways of looking at it. Laptops are more popular than ever and I'm sure some users will struggle to use try to use Inkscape with only an awkward little trackpad for input.)
I dont want to overload inkscape with too many different ways of doing the same thing but I do think it is important to be able to control things with only a simple pointer/pen device, but also conversely control things heavily from the keyboard for users who do not have strong motor control or who are more into the techincal drawing.
The hope would be to have a nice overlap where users like you (bulia) can use both the pointer and keyboard in tandem and achieve a high level of proficiency, accuracy, and efficiency.
Alan Horkan wrote:
It isn't perfect but think about it a bit more and you might realise they must have had some reason for doing it that way.
Could it perhaps be because for the most part they used to design UIs very poorly (by todays standards) in the late 80s? You should take into account that Illustrator is almost 20 years old now and changing their UI isn't really an option for them because they've trained their audience to do things a certain way.
-Josh
On May 17, 2006, at 8:30 AM, Joshua A. Andler wrote:
Alan Horkan wrote:
It isn't perfect but think about it a bit more and you might realise they must have had some reason for doing it that way.
Could it perhaps be because for the most part they used to design UIs very poorly (by todays standards) in the late 80s? You should take into account that Illustrator is almost 20 years old now and changing their UI isn't really an option for them because they've trained their audience to do things a certain way.
And there are two other large factors for Adobe's UI design that must be kept in mind
1) "I don't care if this sucks, we need it thus-and-so so that we can sell more copies of Photoshop"
2) "who cares how if functions, the marketing department said we need to do these so they can put it on brochures"
Jon A. Cruz wrote:
And there are two other large factors for Adobe's UI design that must be kept in mind
- "I don't care if this sucks, we need it thus-and-so so that we can
sell more copies of Photoshop"
Hi all this is one of those imho posts. Im a user not a dev. Have used AI FH and now learning Inkscape.
I dont necessarily agree that it needs to look like AI to be practical, however they are interesting to look at because yep the ui from PS and AI have commonality, the ui for many macintosh apps had commonality, this was part of the apple way of doing things. It meant that people *could* futz around and see where the common things happened and look further right in the menu listing for things specific to that application or that sort of thing.
I'm new to all of this but I can se that there is already a lot of cooperation between the graphics tools developers and areas where we overlap with gnome. I dont think we need to develop a mac or win interface but using the libre meets to encourage common approaches and ways of accessing things is great because the people that use these apps most often use them as a combined group of apps wangling something in gimp, importing it into inkscape, tracing some vectors, exporting stuff back out and into scribus or pdf or openoffice.
So I guess I'm saying yep reducing the learning load per application is a great idea. Using the applications and desktops which can participate in that collaboration to get as much congruent ui as possible is probably my point of difference. eg Gnome, Scribus, Inkscape, Gimp, etc That way at least the groups participating in finding common ways to do things are talking about their own functionality and what best fits with its partners rather than trying to play catch up on the uis of people who dont operate like that and will be designing to suit different kinds of functions / file formats / constraints / marketing depts =).
Cheers
Janet
Hi.
It's funny how similar debates happen on inkscape-devel (AI vs Inkscape) and gimp-devel (PS vs GIMP). I'd like to add Bulia's "look at what really is a common practice, not solely what AI does" -- look at what other free software packages do first.
I would prefer a slightly more obscure behavior if it was consistent across my free software toolbox rather than having each tool have its own. With a lot of effort you can unlearn workflows when you convert/upgrade to a new tool. But it's almost impossible to flip a switch in your head when you work simultaniously in GIMP & Inkscape and go forth and back.
At the moment, holding a spacebar in GIMP selects the move tool no matter what tool you are using (that would be object select as an appropriate Inkscape counterpart). Releasing spacebar will return to your previously selected tool. Does that sound more appropriate than panning on canvas? My opinion is that if Inkscape is not aiming to be "free illustrator" then yes. Not only is that consistent with GIMP's behavior, editing shapes and moving objects is probably 80% of what I do in Inkscape. Why not make it more convenient.
cheers
On 5/18/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:
I would prefer a slightly more obscure behavior if it was consistent across my free software toolbox rather than having each tool have its own. With a lot of effort you can unlearn workflows when you convert/upgrade to a new tool. But it's almost impossible to flip a switch in your head when you work simultaniously in GIMP & Inkscape and go forth and back.
Last year I started collecting info on basic hotkeys etc. in various "creative" open source applications. Here it is: http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/index.php/User_interaction_implementation...
It can be easily extended to cover more aspects of user interaction, so that one could have a good start for analysis.
Alexandre
Wonderfull,
adding that immediately in he user manual and even in the Best New Feature report ;)
cedric
On Sunday 14 May 2006 00:37, bulia byak wrote:
FANTASTIC! Very useful! I like it. I LOVE it. :)
http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-nodesculpting.png
An entirely new way of manipulating paths in Node tool is added in this version: Node sculpting. Normally, when you have several nodes selected and you drag one of them, all selected nodes move by the same amount. Now, if you Alt-drag one of the selected nodes, only that node is fully displaced; other selected nodes are moved less than the full amount, so that those farthest from the drag point remain stationary.
First problem. Alt seems to be very bad choice when using KDE. With alt+left click you move entire window. It would be great to have toolbar icon for turning this move on permanently. Or I will spend more time turning application window into original position then drawing anything.
Moreover, node sculpting is sensitive to pressure of your tablet pen.
I have strange problem at this one (partially related to this new feature). I use wacom tablet. In "stylus" mode there is no pressure sensitivity (works fine with calligraphic tool), but "eraser" mode does the job (again fine with calligraphic). Same strange problem with rectangle tool -- every other works fine. More strangeness: Only rapid movement with "stylus" are drawing tiny, tiny rectangles.
There are many possible applications of the sculpting technique.
Leave that to users. They'll appreciate your efforts... :)
Are we now one step closer to perspective tool? :)
Regards, Vlada
P.S. If you are interested to see samples of work I've done using Inkscape let me know. I wanted to send something to the list, but it was 120kb big file, and I gave up. It still could be done offlist.
On 5/14/06, Vladimir Savić <vladimir@...958...> wrote:
First problem. Alt seems to be very bad choice when using KDE. With alt+left click you move entire window. It would be great to have toolbar icon for turning this move on permanently. Or I will spend more time turning application window into original position then drawing anything.
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#How_to_make_Alt.2Bclick_and_Alt....
I would really suggest that everyone using Inkscape would disable this. We're having more and more useful functionality for Alt+mouse, and there's no way we could move it all elsewhere. I'm sure as Linux programs become more and more complex and professional, not only Inkscape will run into this problem. (E.g. Xara LX developers have also been discussing this.)
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
I have strange problem at this one (partially related to this new feature). I use wacom tablet. In "stylus" mode there is no pressure sensitivity (works fine with calligraphic tool), but "eraser" mode does the job (again fine with calligraphic). Same strange problem with rectangle tool -- every other works fine. More strangeness: Only rapid movement with "stylus" are drawing tiny, tiny rectangles.
That's strange, but I can't really debug this because it works fine for me. Please file a bug with as much detail as possible. Also please search bug reports for "tablet" and have a look - maybe you'll see something similar to your symptoms.
P.S. If you are interested to see samples of work I've done using Inkscape let me know. I wanted to send something to the list, but it was 120kb big file, and I gave up. It still could be done offlist.
Of course, we are always interested in seeing more Inkscape art. Especially now that we started collecting 0.44 screenshots. So if you have anything graphically interesting _and_ illustrating some 0.44 feature we'll want it for a screenshot.
On Sunday 14 May 2006 21:49, bulia byak wrote:
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
This option is available in KDE but is not the default.
Cheers, JFL
On Sun, 14 May 2006, [iso-8859-2] Jean-François Lemaire wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 21:49, bulia byak wrote:
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
This option is available in KDE but is not the default.
Isn't almost *every* WM using the ALT as moving the window?
Stefan
On Sunday 14 May 2006 20:51, Jean-François Lemaire wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 21:49, bulia byak wrote:
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
This option is available in KDE but is not the default.
Sure it is... But I can't find it. Little more help on this if you are KDE user, please.
Vlada
Cheers, JFL
On Monday 15 May 2006 01:19, Vladimir Savić wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 20:51, Jean-François Lemaire wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 21:49, bulia byak wrote:
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
This option is available in KDE but is not the default.
Sure it is... But I can't find it. Little more help on this if you are KDE user, please.
Right click on a window bar, select "Configure Window Behaviour" then select Actions, then Window Actions tab, Modifier key: Meta.
Cheers, JFL
On Monday 15 May 2006 16:23, Jean-François Lemaire wrote:
On Monday 15 May 2006 01:19, Vladimir Savić wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 20:51, Jean-François Lemaire wrote:
On Sunday 14 May 2006 21:49, bulia byak wrote:
Gnome now has an option to use Win key instead of Alt for this window action - this makes a lot more sense. Gnome users, please bug Gnome devs to make this the default!
KDE users, please bug KDE devs to provide this option as well and also make it the default!
This option is available in KDE but is not the default.
Sure it is... But I can't find it. Little more help on this if you are KDE user, please.
Right click on a window bar, select "Configure Window Behaviour" then select Actions, then Window Actions tab, Modifier key: Meta.
Yes. Great!
Thanks, Vlada
Cheers, JFL
On Sunday 14 May 2006 19:49, bulia byak wrote:
On 5/14/06, Vladimir Savić <vladimir@...958...> wrote:
I have strange problem at this one (partially related to this new feature). I use wacom tablet. In "stylus" mode there is no pressure sensitivity (works fine with calligraphic tool), but "eraser" mode does the job (again fine with calligraphic). Same strange problem with rectangle tool -- every other works fine. More strangeness: Only rapid movement with "stylus" are drawing tiny, tiny rectangles.
That's strange, but I can't really debug this because it works fine for me. Please file a bug with as much detail as possible. Also please search bug reports for "tablet" and have a look - maybe you'll see something similar to your symptoms.
I've already tried that, but with no progress. Will run through archive once again and complaint if nothing useful comes up.
P.S. If you are interested to see samples of work I've done using Inkscape let me know. I wanted to send something to the list, but it was 120kb big file, and I gave up. It still could be done offlist.
Of course, we are always interested in seeing more Inkscape art. Especially now that we started collecting 0.44 screenshots. So if you have anything graphically interesting _and_ illustrating some 0.44 feature we'll want it for a screenshot.
Sent off-list. Because it's rather big file... Two, actually...
Vlada
I have strange problem at this one (partially related to this new
feature). I
use wacom tablet. In "stylus" mode there is no pressure sensitivity
(works
fine with calligraphic tool), but "eraser" mode does the job (again fine
with
calligraphic).
This is probably an issue of which tools have been enabled in the input devices dialog.
Same strange problem with rectangle tool -- every other works
fine.
What do you expect pressure-sensitivity to do in the rectangle tool?
More strangeness: Only rapid movement with "stylus" are drawing tiny,
tiny rectangles.
This part is the tablet event-dropping bug that I've been looking at, #1455685.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1455685&gro...
-mental
On Monday 15 May 2006 15:50, MenTaLguY wrote:
I have strange problem at this one (partially related to this new
feature). I
use wacom tablet. In "stylus" mode there is no pressure sensitivity
(works
fine with calligraphic tool), but "eraser" mode does the job (again fine
with
calligraphic).
This is probably an issue of which tools have been enabled in the input devices dialog.
Any known way of solving it?
Same strange problem with rectangle tool -- every other works
fine.
What do you expect pressure-sensitivity to do in the rectangle tool?
Nothing actually. It was I who gave the imprecise description. Sorry. Somehow better description is sentence below (and problems are not pressure related, but "tablet" related).
More strangeness: Only rapid movement with "stylus" are drawing tiny,
tiny rectangles.
This part is the tablet event-dropping bug that I've been looking at, #1455685.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1455685&gro... 3438&atid=604306
Yes, exactly my problem. Hope you'll have it sorted out soon. BTW, GIMP works just fine.
Vlada
-mental
I forgot to mention one important application of node sculpting: Twisting text. Just convert your text to path, select all or some of the nodes and Alt+drag one of them. I have updated the screenshot to demonstrate that:
http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-nodesculpting.png
On May 15, 2006, at 10:43 AM, bulia byak wrote:
I forgot to mention one important application of node sculpting: Twisting text. Just convert your text to path, select all or some of the nodes and Alt+drag one of them. I have updated the screenshot to demonstrate that:
http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44- nodesculpting.png
On Mon, 15 May 2006 19:02:48 +0000, Vladimir Savić <vladimir@...958...> wrote:
On Monday 15 May 2006 15:50, MenTaLguY wrote:
This is probably an issue of which tools have been enabled in the input devices dialog.
Any known way of solving it?
Go to the dialog and enable the stylus tool, presumably.
-mental
On Monday 15 May 2006 19:51, MenTaLguY wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2006 19:02:48 +0000, Vladimir Savić
<vladimir@...958...> wrote:
On Monday 15 May 2006 15:50, MenTaLguY wrote:
This is probably an issue of which tools have been enabled in the input devices dialog.
Any known way of solving it?
Go to the dialog and enable the stylus tool, presumably.
Seems like I misunderstood your post. Stylus is enabled, that's for sure. Thanx anyway.
Vlada
-mental
FANTASTIC! Very useful! I like it. I LOVE it. :)
Awesome!
First problem. Alt seems to be very bad choice when using KDE. With alt+left click you move entire window. It would be great to have toolbar icon for turning this move on permanently. Or I will spend more time turning application window into original position then drawing anything.
Right, alt+drag is way too popular for windows dragging under X.
Karol
Bulia,
I've said it before and I will say it again... YOU ROCK BEYOND ALL BELIEF! (yes it required shouting and top posting, I am just that happy) THANKS YOU!
Now... Unfortunately I had a hectic weekend and this is my first time back at a computer. That means no further progress on the mask/clippath/pattern tutorial. My question is, should I add info about this to the Advanced tutorial as a higher priority than that other tutorial? I personally think so, but want other opinions.
Anyway, off to grill... and let me say again... THANK YOU!!!!!
-Josh
bulia byak wrote:
http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-nodesculpting.png
An entirely new way of manipulating paths in Node tool is added in this version: Node sculpting. Normally, when you have several nodes selected and you drag one of them, all selected nodes move by the same amount. Now, if you Alt-drag one of the selected nodes, only that node is fully displaced; other selected nodes are moved less than the full amount, so that those farthest from the drag point remain stationary.
The new node sculpting is the cat's meow....
And given an inch, I'll take a mile!
It would be nice to be able to specify how the nodes are displaced. The current algorithm appears to be based on displacing a node as a Gaussian (Bell curve) function of the distance along the path from the dragged node. This works nicely in adjusting small sections of a path (or spirals). It is not quite as effective in sculpting text (try sculpting just a few letters). One could imagine other useful algorithms:
1. Displacement as a function of linear distance from dragged node.
2. Displacement as a function of perpendicular distance from a line through the dragged node and parallel to the direction of the drag.
3. Displacement as a function of closest distance along path for closed paths. This would avoid a discontinuity in the displacement between the first and last points of a closed path.
4. Displacement proportional to 1 - x^2/x'^2, where x is the perpendicular distance from the dragged node and x' the perpendicular distance of the end selected nodes. This would allow "wrapping" an object around a can given #2 is implemented. (OK, this is really a parabolic displacement and one should also move points in the perpendicular direction to wrap an object around a can, but this would be a good enough approximation in many cases.)
5. When more than one path or sub-path is selected (as in selecting a few characters or parts of a few characters), use the end nodes of the first and last path as the reference points. Currently the first and last points of the sub-path with the dragged node are used.
6. Choosing the reference points (other than the selected end nodes) where the displacement is zero.
Trying to sculpt text exposes two problems. The first is that the Object->Path function creates two overlapping end points for each closed path. I think that these two points should be merged. The second is that "Add Nodes" creates two extra overlapping nodes at the beginning/end of a close path.
Tav
On 5/16/06, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
It would be nice to be able to specify how the nodes are displaced. The current algorithm appears to be based on displacing a node as a Gaussian (Bell curve) function of the distance along the path from the dragged node. This works nicely in adjusting small sections of a path (or spirals). It is not quite as effective in sculpting text (try sculpting just a few letters). One could imagine other useful algorithms:
- Displacement as a function of linear distance from dragged node.
Added yesterday. So far it's a hidden preference that you can enable, we just need to decide where to put the UI for it (controls bar or prefs dialog?)
- Displacement as a function of perpendicular distance from a line
through the dragged node and parallel to the direction of the drag.
Interesting, yes, can be added too.
- Displacement as a function of closest distance along path for closed
paths. This would avoid a discontinuity in the displacement between the first and last points of a closed path.
It already works this way. More precisely, there are two modes of measuring distance: linear and spatial. Linear mode measures distances along the path; it is used when all selected nodes are on the same subpath (i.e. are connected). In that mode there should be no discontinuities ever. Spatial mode measures distance directly along a straight line to the node, and it is used when selection is on more than one subpath. In that mode, unfortunately, there may be discontinuities - though I have an idea of how to minimize them (this needs more research). Apart from the possible discontinuities, the two modes look and feel very similar to the user, so I don't think we need to tell the user anything about them. They should "just work" as you expect them to.
- Displacement proportional to 1 - x^2/x'^2, where x is the
perpendicular distance from the dragged node and x' the perpendicular distance of the end selected nodes. This would allow "wrapping" an object around a can given #2 is implemented. (OK, this is really a parabolic displacement and one should also move points in the perpendicular direction to wrap an object around a can, but this would be a good enough approximation in many cases.)
I'm not sure I understand this, can you draw an illustration?
- When more than one path or sub-path is selected (as in selecting a
few characters or parts of a few characters), use the end nodes of the first and last path as the reference points. Currently the first and last points of the sub-path with the dragged node are used.
Currently the reference point in this case is the _farthest_ selected node no matter where it is, and this is what may cause discontinuities. But, as I said above, I already have an idea of how to fix it: basically, instead of a single farthest (reference) point, we should have one such point in each direction, and for each direction calculate the displacement based on how far the selection reaches in that direction. In a simpler way, this is already done in the linear mode: the two directions from the dragged node on the path each have its own farthest node, so each half of selection is bent smoothly within its own range and there are no discontinuities (except when you drag the first/last node of selection, of course, but then you have only yourself to blame).
- Choosing the reference points (other than the selected end nodes)
where the displacement is zero.
I think the UI for that would be too cumbersome for the user. We just need to make it work automagically in most if not all cases :)
Trying to sculpt text exposes two problems. The first is that the Object->Path function creates two overlapping end points for each closed path. I think that these two points should be merged. The second is that "Add Nodes" creates two extra overlapping nodes at the beginning/end of a close path.
Can you please submit bug reports (with examples) for that?
One more UI improvement:
On a node-dense path in zoom-out, it's very difficult to grab one of selected nodes because all selected nodes show their Bezier handles and these get in the way. So I added a toggle button on the Node tool Controls bar that lets you switch on or off the display of the handles on selected nodes (it's on by default, of course).
You must have changed some things in the last few days. Node sculpting works much better!
- Displacement as a function of linear distance from dragged node.
Added yesterday. So far it's a hidden preference that you can enable, we just need to decide where to put the UI for it (controls bar or prefs dialog?)
Excellent... on the control bar as I could imagine switching back and forth often. Question becomes, what would be a good icon?
- Displacement as a function of perpendicular distance from a line
through the dragged node and parallel to the direction of the drag.
Interesting, yes, can be added too.
Great! I could also see a control bar icon here.
- Displacement as a function of closest distance along path for closed
paths. This would avoid a discontinuity in the displacement between the first and last points of a closed path.
It already works this way. More precisely, there are two modes of measuring distance: linear and spatial. Linear mode measures distances along the path; it is used when all selected nodes are on the same subpath (i.e. are connected). In that mode there should be no discontinuities ever. Spatial mode measures distance directly along a straight line to the node, and it is used when selection is on more than one subpath. In that mode, unfortunately, there may be discontinuities - though I have an idea of how to minimize them (this needs more research). Apart from the possible discontinuities, the two modes look and feel very similar to the user, so I don't think we need to tell the user anything about them. They should "just work" as you expect them to.
I see. I realized that what was actually occurring was a discontinuity due an open sub-path (with the end nodes on top of each other, hiding the opening, due to the bug listed below). The distance along the path from the dragged node to each end was different so the end nodes moved by different amounts. With the latest SVN, things works as you describe above and this problem has disappeared.
- Displacement proportional to 1 - x^2/x'^2, where x is the
perpendicular distance from the dragged node and x' the perpendicular distance of the end selected nodes. This would allow "wrapping" an object around a can given #2 is implemented. (OK, this is really a parabolic displacement and one should also move points in the perpendicular direction to wrap an object around a can, but this would be a good enough approximation in many cases.)
I'm not sure I understand this, can you draw an illustration?
See the attached illustration of attempting to put text on a can. The 'd' is clearly orientated wrong. The lower black line shows the curve obtained with node sculpting. The upper black line shows the curve that would be obtained with the displacement option requested above. It is a better approximation to the displacement needed to simulate an object wrapped around a can.
- Choosing the reference points (other than the selected end nodes)
where the displacement is zero.
I think the UI for that would be too cumbersome for the user. We just need to make it work automagically in most if not all cases :)
You are probably right.
Trying to sculpt text exposes two problems. The first is that the Object->Path function creates two overlapping end points for each closed path. I think that these two points should be merged. The second is that "Add Nodes" creates two extra overlapping nodes at the beginning/end of a close path.
Can you please submit bug reports (with examples) for that?
The first problem appears to occur only when text is converted to a path. I will file bug reports.
Tav
On 5/17/06, Tavmjong Bah <tavmjong@...8...> wrote:
Excellent... on the control bar as I could imagine switching back and forth often. Question becomes, what would be a good icon?
Let's wait a release to see if this becomes a popular enough feature to deserve a space on the toolbar. We'll need at least 5 buttons there, 3 for selecting profile (bell, elliptic and linear) and 2 for selecting the surface drag (current) or shot-through drag (distance from line of drag, not dragged node) behavior.
See the attached illustration of attempting to put text on a can.
I see, this would be the ellpitic profile.
participants (15)
-
Alan Horkan -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
bulia byak -
cedric GEMY -
Jakub Steiner -
Janet Hawtin -
Jean-François Lemaire -
John Cliff -
Jon A. Cruz -
Joshua A. Andler -
Karol Krenski -
MenTaLguY -
Stefan de Konink -
Tavmjong Bah -
Vladimir Savić