Re: [Inkscape-devel] button size
See what y'all think...
I think the size contrast may be a bit more pronounced. However, making secondary buttons smaller is bad, they're hardly visible already. Especially the raise/lower buttons are hard to decipher, they're too complex and dark, perhaps someone will have to redraw them eventually. The main toolbar buttons may be made a bit larger, IMHO.
Also, can we rearrange the toolbars so that the corner is occupied by the secondary toolbar, not the primary? Rationale: secondary toolbar may ultimately need lots of space for all its controls, so every pixel counts. The primary, on the other hand, is unlikely to grow significantly.
And if you do that, can you provide a bit of separation between the toolbars by moving the primary one to the bottom a little? Ultimately I would like to see in that interval a "handle" that will let me drag the toolbar e.g. to the right edge or make it floatable, but until then, let it be just a few pixels of empty space.
On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 21:52, bulia byak wrote:
I think the size contrast may be a bit more pronounced. However, making secondary buttons smaller is bad, they're hardly visible already. Especially the raise/lower buttons are hard to decipher, they're too complex and dark, perhaps someone will have to redraw them eventually. The main toolbar buttons may be made a bit larger, IMHO.
Could you all experiment with some different sizes and see what looks good to you?
The relevent #defines are TOOL_BUTTON_SIZE and AUX_BUTTON_SIZE in src/toolbar.c.
Also, can we rearrange the toolbars so that the corner is occupied by the secondary toolbar, not the primary? Rationale: secondary toolbar may ultimately need lots of space for all its controls, so every pixel counts. The primary, on the other hand, is unlikely to grow significantly.
Well, as it is the toolbar size forces the window to a fairly large minimum height. I'm a little uncomfortable forcing a much larger minimum size.
Do you think it would be okay to permit the button bar to be cut off if the window is resized smaller?
And if you do that, can you provide a bit of separation between the toolbars by moving the primary one to the bottom a little? Ultimately I would like to see in that interval a "handle" that will let me drag the toolbar e.g. to the right edge or make it floatable, but until then, let it be just a few pixels of empty space.
Well, perhaps I should use the GTK detachable toolbar widget there, though the plain GTK one is kind of weak. :/
-mental
The detachable GTK widget seems to be the best option as made precedent by other apps (gimp, gedit, etc). Plus, people can move it to wherever they want. I guess the pref. for where it is located is the only thing about that option, so its position is saved across states.
How hard is it to replace those icons with standard widgets, or is that better to do down the road?
Jon
On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 20:38, MenTaLguY wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 21:52, bulia byak wrote:
I think the size contrast may be a bit more pronounced. However, making secondary buttons smaller is bad, they're hardly visible already. Especially the raise/lower buttons are hard to decipher, they're too complex and dark, perhaps someone will have to redraw them eventually. The main toolbar buttons may be made a bit larger, IMHO.
Could you all experiment with some different sizes and see what looks good to you?
The relevent #defines are TOOL_BUTTON_SIZE and AUX_BUTTON_SIZE in src/toolbar.c.
Also, can we rearrange the toolbars so that the corner is occupied by the secondary toolbar, not the primary? Rationale: secondary toolbar may ultimately need lots of space for all its controls, so every pixel counts. The primary, on the other hand, is unlikely to grow significantly.
Well, as it is the toolbar size forces the window to a fairly large minimum height. I'm a little uncomfortable forcing a much larger minimum size.
Do you think it would be okay to permit the button bar to be cut off if the window is resized smaller?
And if you do that, can you provide a bit of separation between the toolbars by moving the primary one to the bottom a little? Ultimately I would like to see in that interval a "handle" that will let me drag the toolbar e.g. to the right edge or make it floatable, but until then, let it be just a few pixels of empty space.
Well, perhaps I should use the GTK detachable toolbar widget there, though the plain GTK one is kind of weak. :/
-mental
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, MenTaLguY wrote:
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:38:52 -0500 From: MenTaLguY <mental@...3...> To: Inkscape ML inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] button size
On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 21:52, bulia byak wrote:
I think the size contrast may be a bit more pronounced. However, making secondary buttons smaller is bad, they're hardly visible already. Especially the raise/lower buttons are hard to decipher, they're too complex and dark, perhaps someone will have to redraw them eventually. The main toolbar buttons may be made a bit larger, IMHO.
Could you all experiment with some different sizes and see what looks good to you?
My brain is saying different sizes := inconsistancy => bad! but try it and see.
Also, can we rearrange the toolbars so that the corner is occupied by the secondary toolbar, not the primary? Rationale: secondary toolbar may ultimately need lots of space for all its controls, so every pixel counts. The primary, on the other hand, is unlikely to grow significantly.
This would be good.
Well, as it is the toolbar size forces the window to a fairly large minimum height. I'm a little uncomfortable forcing a much larger minimum size.
Do you think it would be okay to permit the button bar to be cut off if the window is resized smaller?
Yes, the toolbar widget should have some indicator if the window has been shrunk too small for all the buttons to be seen. If it doesn't the widget needs to be fixed (custom widgets bad!) or Inkscape needs to use a newer version of GTK that incorportates the libegg toolbar that does this properly. (standard widgets good!)
And if you do that, can you provide a bit of separation between the toolbars by moving the primary one to the bottom a little? Ultimately I would like to see in that interval a "handle" that will let me drag the toolbar e.g. to the right edge or make it floatable, but until then, let it be just a few pixels of empty space.
Well, perhaps I should use the GTK detachable toolbar widget there, though the plain GTK one is kind of weak. :/
Hope that helps
Sincerely
Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
P.S. custom widgets aren'tall bad if maintaining custom widgets is what you are interested in, but I'm confident that developing a fully featured Vector Graphics program is what really interest you.
On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 05:31, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, MenTaLguY wrote:
Could you all experiment with some different sizes and see what looks good to you?
My brain is saying different sizes := inconsistancy => bad! but try it and see.
Hmm. I still have mixed feelings about this.
The difference in sizes is kind of ugly, but the two button roles do need to be visually distinguished somehow.
Perhaps it might look better if there were an obvious ratio (e.g. 2:3) between the sizes...
Also, can we rearrange the toolbars so that the corner is occupied by the secondary toolbar, not the primary? Rationale: secondary toolbar may ultimately need lots of space for all its controls, so every pixel counts. The primary, on the other hand, is unlikely to grow significantly.
This would be good.
I've just done this in CVS.
Yes, the toolbar widget should have some indicator if the window has been shrunk too small for all the buttons to be seen. If it doesn't the widget needs to be fixed (custom widgets bad!) or Inkscape needs to use a newer version of GTK that incorportates the libegg toolbar that does this properly. (standard widgets good!)
Can you elaborate on the libegg thing? I can't find anything in the online GTK docs, but I'd kill for a better toolbar widget...
And if you do that, can you provide a bit of separation between the toolbars by moving the primary one to the bottom a little? Ultimately I would like to see in that interval a "handle" that will let me drag the toolbar e.g. to the right edge or make it floatable, but until then, let it be just a few pixels of empty space.
Well, perhaps I should use the GTK detachable toolbar widget there, though the plain GTK one is kind of weak. :/
I've gone ahead with the standard GtkHandleBox for now, but we definitely need something better...
-mental
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, MenTaLguY wrote:
On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 05:31, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, MenTaLguY wrote:
Could you all experiment with some different sizes and see what looks good to you?
My brain is saying different sizes := inconsistancy => bad! but try it and see.
Hmm. I still have mixed feelings about this.
The difference in sizes is kind of ugly, but the two button roles do need to be visually distinguished somehow.
Perhaps it might look better if there were an obvious ratio (e.g. 2:3) between the sizes...
Golden ratio maybe?
Bryce
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, MenTaLguY wrote:
Can you elaborate on the libegg thing? I can't find anything in the online GTK docs, but I'd kill for a better toolbar widget...
Sorry for the late reply. (I was advised to step away from the computer and go out and get some fresh air. I've been spending a bit too much time in front of the computer and it was starting to show, so i took a few days offline).
Basically to the best of my limited knowledge (caveat lector!) LibEgg is a testing ground for new widgets that are likely to get folded back into Gtk and Gnome although from my limited knowledge I say some things were folded back in for GTK2.4 I really dont know much more than that.
Some applictions were not willing to wait for stuff to be rolled back into GTK and started using libegg (gnumeric i think it was that made me notice).
If the standard widgets are not good enough for Inkscape chances are improved versions are already in development or suggestions just need to be made.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 15:15, Alan Horkan wrote:
Basically to the best of my limited knowledge (caveat lector!) LibEgg is a testing ground for new widgets that are likely to get folded back into Gtk and Gnome although from my limited knowledge I say some things were folded back in for GTK2.4 I really dont know much more than that.
Another point on libegg is that it is ment to be copied into the codebase that is using it - it isn't intended to be a 'library' per se. If we want widgets from there, we can take them, and there is a reasonable chance that they'll get rolled into the next GTK+.
--Ted
participants (6)
-
Alan Horkan -
Bryce Harrington -
bulia byak -
Jonathan Phillips -
MenTaLguY -
Ted Gould