Hi,
I know that it might sound unbelievably silly, but no matter how hard I try I can't get guides to rotate on canvas. The release notes doesn't really explain how to do it. I tried all combinations of Ctrl, Alt and Shift above rotation circle mark. So, any clue?
Alexandre
You have to shift-click the guide "far enough" from the rotation center to activate rotation. If you shift-click "near enough to" or inside the rotation center circle you move it through its guide. I hope this helps you.
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Hi,
I know that it might sound unbelievably silly, but no matter how hard I try I can't get guides to rotate on canvas. The release notes doesn't really explain how to do it. I tried all combinations of Ctrl, Alt and Shift above rotation circle mark. So, any clue?
Alexandre
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On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:51 AM, LucaDC<dicappello@...2144...> wrote:
You have to shift-click the guide "far enough" from the rotation center to activate rotation. If you shift-click "near enough to" or inside the rotation center circle you move it through its guide. I hope this helps you.
In rev 21647 I added a statusbar hint, made cursor change when you're about to rotate (i.e. far from anchor over the guide and with Shift pressed), and implemented rotation snapping with Shift+Ctrl. Release notes are updated.
Thanks to bulia byak for working on guides. It's a tool I can't live without and it's been improved so much that I find it really powerful.
Sincerely, I preferred the old arrow cursor (I work under Windows). Now the four-arrow is less precise and its changing whenever you hover is a bit disturbing. I understand that on different OSs the default cursor can be problematic but this imposes the change also where it's not.
Anyway, if you are already over the guide, shift-click to rotate (without moving the mouse) and start the rotation, the cursor never changes. This happens also under other circumstances where you click (or unclick) without moving the cursor. I don't know if this is an OS issue and can be fixed.
Another thing I noticed is that the rotation snap is calculated from the guide's starting position. I think that as guides are used as absolute anchors, it would be more intuitive to have absolute snapping angles also (i.e. if the guide is at -2.25° and the snapping is every 15°, the snapping will be 0°, 15°, 30°... not -2.25°, 12.75°, 27.75°...). I don't feel that the relative snapping could be really useful (at least to me), but maybe I'm wrong.
And finally, I'd like to ask: is there a real reason for which the guide's origin can't be forced under the cursor whenever you grab the guide? This would let you snap the origin to a particular point simply moving and snapping the guide. Is it useful moving the guide and having the origin move accordingly? I can say that for what I use Inkscape I never need this, but maybe under different circumstances someone could. That's why I ask. If not, would it be difficoult to implement? And in any case, if you move the guide by hand you cannot place its origin precisely and you could obtain the same result snapping the guide and then sliding the origin through it; if you don't need to snap the guide you coudl directly place the origin where desired (and maybe having it under the cursor makes the whole more intuitive).
Thanks for your work.
bulia byak wrote:
In rev 21647 I added a statusbar hint, made cursor change when you're about to rotate (i.e. far from anchor over the guide and with Shift pressed), and implemented rotation snapping with Shift+Ctrl. Release notes are updated.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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Ah, and the hint is "Shift+drag to rotate" also when you are over the origin, so this does not completely solve the original problem :)
Luca
bulia byak wrote:
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:51 AM, LucaDC<dicappello@...2144...> wrote: In rev 21647 I added a statusbar hint, made cursor change when you're about to rotate (i.e. far from anchor over the guide and with Shift pressed), and implemented rotation snapping with Shift+Ctrl. Release notes are updated.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
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It should give evidence to where the rotation center is. If you don't rotate guides, then you don't need it being displayed (so it could be displayed only when you hover on the guide with shift pressed...).
Luca
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:55 AM, LucaDC wrote:
Ah, and the hint is "Shift+drag to rotate" also when you are over the origin, so this does not completely solve the original problem :)
What do we use the origin mark for, btw?
Alexandre
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On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, LucaDC wrote:
It should give evidence to where the rotation center is.
So let's sum it up :)
Every guide has a guide origin mark, which roughly indicates placement of the point around which a guide can be rotated. Unlike other UI elements it does not serve as *precise* indicator which means that you do not really know how to use rotating on canvas until you read docs.
Alexandre
On 06/23/2009 03:38 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Every guide has a guide origin mark, which roughly indicates placement of the point around which a guide can be rotated.
What gives you the impression that it's imprecise? True, it's not a crosshair so it might not _look_ that accurate, but it really is accurate to the last decimal as far as I know. If not then that should be fixed obviously.
Unlike other UI elements it does not serve as *precise* indicator which means that you do not really know how to use rotating on canvas until you read docs.
I think I'm missing the point here: how does being imprecise affect the discoverability?
Diederik
Personally I had some difficoulties too in understanding how to manage guides when the little circle first appeared, but I don't see anything wrong in having to read the documentation to understand how to use well a program. Of course it's better if you can avoid it but I think that when (not standard) modifiers are involved either you try all the combinations (and it's not always straightforward, this is one case) or you read some docs. Then the problem moves on the completeness and clarity of the documentation...
About the precision: the little circle doesn't give you the feeling of being able to place it where you really want (now that you have a big arrowed cross over it, on Windows, it's even worse!): only snapping does. That's why I asked for (un)changing the cursor over guides and fixing/restyling the snapping.
Thanks. Luca
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, LucaDC wrote:
It should give evidence to where the rotation center is.
So let's sum it up :)
Every guide has a guide origin mark, which roughly indicates placement of the point around which a guide can be rotated. Unlike other UI elements it does not serve as *precise* indicator which means that you do not really know how to use rotating on canvas until you read docs.
Alexandre
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Yep in a new compilation - I discovered what I search on the place where - I think - any Corel Draw / Illustrator designer look first for supplementary info's - on status bar.
Now the circle is complete -> It's easy to find that functionality.
2009/6/27 Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...400...>:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:07 PM, LucaDC wrote:
Personally I had some difficoulties too in understanding how to manage guides when the little circle first appeared,
Luckily thanks to changes by bulia this doesn't seem to be a problem anymore :)
Alexandre
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Hi
About the guides once again :-) :
There's still something unintuitive with the guide's origin IMHO. When you try to drag the origin and try to snap it to something, you'll find out at some point that you didn't grab the origin but that you instead grabbed the guide itself. And if you really grab the origin itself (with SHIFT), you'll notice that you can only move it along the guide and not freely over the canvas in 2D. That's really something that we miss now. So I propose the following: 1) only when pressing shift, the origin should appear, then 2a) when grabbing the guide far away from the origin, it should rotate, 2b) when grabbing it close to the origin, we should be able to move the origin in two dimensions (currently it only moves in 1D, i.e. along the guide itself) 3) only when pressing both ctrl AND shift, the motion of the origin should be constrained to the guide like it is now
Wouldn't that make more sense?
Diederik
Press shift before grabbing the guide, and grab it at some distance from its rotation origin
Et voila!
Diederik
-----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Prokoudine [mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...400...] Sent: 2009 jun 22 12:35 To: Inkscape Devel List Subject: [Inkscape-devel] rotating guides
Hi,
I know that it might sound unbelievably silly, but no matter how hard I try I can't get guides to rotate on canvas. The release notes doesn't really explain how to do it. I tried all combinations of Ctrl, Alt and Shift above rotation circle mark. So, any clue?
Alexandre
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rg _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
for my "designer-istics" pov was not too discoverable ( have I an poorest IQ ?? )
2009/6/22 Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...>:
The question is... Is it discoverable? :)
from my 'engineeric' pov — yes it is
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
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I hope nope :) I think it is simply more like 'lever-law', so it is more 'physical'
p.s. i remember my iq's is about 140 - don't know how high or low it is.
2009/6/22, SorinN <nemes.sorin@...400...>:
for my "designer-istics" pov was not too discoverable ( have I an poorest IQ ?? )
2009/6/22 Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...>:
The question is... Is it discoverable? :)
from my 'engineeric' pov — yes it is
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
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-- Nemes Ioan Sorin
;) Average is in between 100-110
People with IQ's of 120 and above tend to staff the professions as doctors, dentists, lawyers, teachers, and college professors. They fall in the upper 10% of the population. So ..you must be good ...too good to become the second Bill Gates ..sorry for you :) and sorry for 3 words offtopic
...talking now about Discoverability -> the tradition for a normal designer ( Corel, Illustrator ) is to look at the status bar for descriptive messages - I observed there is a message when I move the mouse over a guideline : Guideline vertical at xxx mm position [ I am now with Inkscape under XP - I dont check that on Ubuntu yet, ,but I'll compile the new SVN version when I'm done with my work - BTW I am now in Windows because I can't use Color Management so I translated all my Inkscape models in Illustrator to check the right colors ]
Now the question is if there, along the normal text ... Guideline vertical at xxx mm position ... can be another descriptive portion like : Drag to move, Shift + Drag to rotate, Ctrl + Click to delete.
I hope this will not take too much from development progress - in case if is possible.
SorinN
P.S. Now - to Shift or not too shift ? - this is the question.
2009/6/22 Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...>:
I hope nope :) I think it is simply more like 'lever-law', so it is more 'physical'
p.s. i remember my iq's is about 140 - don't know how high or low it is.
2009/6/22, SorinN <nemes.sorin@...400...>:
for my "designer-istics" pov was not too discoverable ( have I an poorest IQ ?? )
2009/6/22 Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...>:
The question is... Is it discoverable? :)
from my 'engineeric' pov — yes it is
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.o... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
-- Nemes Ioan Sorin
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
I'll compile the new SVN version when I'm done with my work - BTW I am now in Windows because I can't use Color Management so I translated all my Inkscape models in Illustrator to check the right colors
The color management actually works on XP now.
Copy profiles to this location: C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\color\icc
and enable color management in the preferences file
Being discoverable or not doesn't prevent from being written in the Release Note.
Steren
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...> wrote:
I hope nope :) I think it is simply more like 'lever-law', so it is more 'physical'
p.s. i remember my iq's is about 140 - don't know how high or low it is.
2009/6/22, SorinN <nemes.sorin@...400...>:
for my "designer-istics" pov was not too discoverable ( have I an poorest IQ ?? )
2009/6/22 Oleg Koptev <koptev.oleg@...400...>:
The question is... Is it discoverable? :)
from my 'engineeric' pov -- yes it is
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today!
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Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
-- Nemes Ioan Sorin
-- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev, SISAM LLC.
Jabber ID - koptevoleg@...189...
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participants (8)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
bulia byak -
Diederik van Lierop -
LucaDC -
Oleg Koptev -
Preben Soeberg -
SorinN -
Steren