To my understanding, a limitation with tool control bars right now is that they aren't too dynamic. For example, when I draw lines: - I'd like dotted lines and markers to appear in the tool control bar for lines without shapes - But with the "from clipboard" option, I'd like width, repeat style etc. to appear there instead.
But without introducing new interface features, the tool control bar is pretty much static right now, so we face all-or-nothing situations.
Is it possible to have two layers of tool selection instead?
Explanation:
Right now: [tool control bar] [t o o l b a r]
Proposal:
[subtools] | [subtool control bar] [t o o l b a r]
I'm asking this because it'd allow for several things: - Consolidate the shapes tools into one button in the toolbar. Instead, sub-shapes appear in the subtools bar. - If more 3D shapes are added, they can similarly be grouped into a single button in the toolbar, while allowing each shape to have its own controls. - When tech-drawing becomes available, they could be accessed from the top-level instead of as LPEs - unshaped line, "from clipboard" line, powerstroke line and maybe other line effects (sketch?) can be treated as separate sub-tools with their own top-level control bars (so you don't need to open the LPE dialogue) - transformation options such as perspective, envelop and envelop deform can become available as sub-tools of the transform tool - composition guides, maybe common on-canvas tiling options (symmetry, radial and normal tiling - anything more advanced must be accessed from a separate panel) become available from top-level - extra mode in text tool for controlling flowing text into shapes? (for graphs and such)
Of course, it it's not possible, then that's that. It seemed like a possibility worth asking.
2012/1/25 Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...>:
Is it possible to have two layers of tool selection instead?
Explanation:
Right now: [tool control bar] [t o o l b a r]
Proposal:
[subtools] | [subtool control bar] [t o o l b a r]
It would be easier to use GtkMenuToolButton, e.g. some tools would have a small arrow near their button that would allow you to select a "sub-tool".
The advantage of your solution over GtkMenuToolButton is that all subtools are visible without requiring the user to click on the arrows to discover what subtools are available, but on the other hand it takes a lot of space on the tool control bar, which is already crowded in some tools (e.g. spray).
Regards, Krzysztof
On Feb 1, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Krzysztof Kosiński wrote:
2012/1/25 Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...>:
Is it possible to have two layers of tool selection instead?
[SNIP]
It would be easier to use GtkMenuToolButton, e.g. some tools would have a small arrow near their button that would allow you to select a "sub-tool".
The advantage of your solution over GtkMenuToolButton is that all subtools are visible without requiring the user to click on the arrows to discover what subtools are available, but on the other hand it takes a lot of space on the tool control bar, which is already crowded in some tools (e.g. spray).
Valerie, Krzysztof makes some very good observations on the initial trade-offs. While we are working on making the toolbars both more configurable and also more dynamic/adaptive, we do want to try to keep things working well for the most people right out of the box.
I actually could be very helpful if you could collect this up into a page on our wiki. Both your listing of use cases and Krzysztof's details give a good jumping off point. Also having it on a wiki page will help ensure we don't forget it over time, etc.
That's not a problem, though it'd be helpful if the image uploading gets fixed (thanks Krzysztof for reporting it by the way!)
So, is it mainly to cover the following two sections?
1. How to display tool grouping options
2. New tools and subtools (guides, technical drawing etc.)? I can make lists for each.
Anything else you want me to cover?
----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Cruz <jon@...18...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: Inkscape-devel inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Question about tool control bars
On Feb 1, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Krzysztof Kosiński wrote:
2012/1/25 Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...>:
Is it possible to have two layers of tool selection instead?
[SNIP]
It would be easier to use GtkMenuToolButton, e.g. some tools would have a small arrow near their button that would allow you to select a "sub-tool".
The advantage of your solution over GtkMenuToolButton is that all subtools are visible without requiring the user to click on the arrows to discover what subtools are available, but on the other hand it takes a lot of space on the tool control bar, which is already crowded in some tools (e.g. spray).
Valerie, Krzysztof makes some very good observations on the initial trade-offs. While we are working on making the toolbars both more configurable and also more dynamic/adaptive, we do want to try to keep things working well for the most people right out of the box.
I actually could be very helpful if you could collect this up into a page on our wiki. Both your listing of use cases and Krzysztof's details give a good jumping off point. Also having it on a wiki page will help ensure we don't forget it over time, etc.
I'll start a new wiki page later, but in the meantime I just made everything into images:
http://postimage.org/image/3u9o23s5h/
http://postimage.org/image/67mgl9izr/
(the second one is really work-in-progress, as there's a bunch of tool control options I'd like to add to various tools)
In the meantime, is there anything else specific that others would like to see added to such a page? Criticism?
By the way, on the topic of tool control bar length, one of the things that seem to take up a lot of place are those horizontal bars you drag to control width, tremor and such. I like the current interface and since I have a wide-screen, I'm really fine with them, but they make take up a lot of place for others.
Long ago I saw the following feature discussed in the Krita mailing list: a numerical box with up/down arrows next to it, clicking the arrows pops up a vertical draggable bar. Thus, you can both input values manually or by dragging the bar. They also explained why it's easier for users to control vertical bars (because for small movements you're moving the mouse up and down with your fingers). The resulting setup only takes up the space of a numerical box. Does anyone think they'd want it in Inkscape? The gain may not be that significant since the text still needs to go somewhere.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Cruz <jon@...18...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: Inkscape-devel inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Question about tool control bars
On Feb 1, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Krzysztof Kosiński wrote:
2012/1/25 Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...>:
Is it possible to have two layers of tool selection instead?
[SNIP]
It would be easier to use GtkMenuToolButton, e.g. some tools would have a small arrow near their button that would allow you to select a "sub-tool".
The advantage of your solution over GtkMenuToolButton is that all subtools are visible without requiring the user to click on the arrows to discover what subtools are available, but on the other hand it takes a lot of space on the tool control bar, which is already crowded in some tools (e.g. spray).
Valerie, Krzysztof makes some very good observations on the initial trade-offs. While we are working on making the toolbars both more configurable and also more dynamic/adaptive, we do want to try to keep things working well for the most people right out of the box.
I actually could be very helpful if you could collect this up into a page on our wiki. Both your listing of use cases and Krzysztof's details give a good jumping off point. Also having it on a wiki page will help ensure we don't forget it over time, etc.
participants (3)
-
Jon Cruz -
Krzysztof Kosiński -
Valerie