Hi Friends, Occassionally we've had a message in forums about using Inkscape with a touch screen. And in the past I've always answered "not yet". But now I'm shopping for a new laptop, and approx 90% of the laptops available in my RAM range (16 gb) are "2 in 1" types which have touch screens. I've had to search rather closely to find a non-touch screen! If I look in the lower range of RAM (around 6 gb) the available systems are roughly split between touch and non-touch screens. But even then, it gives the impression that touchscreen computers are much more common than I had imagined. The last time I bought a new computer, touchscreens were rare! Anyway, I wanted to ask the development community -- will Inkscape ever be made to work using a touch screen, or will it always be mouse (or graphics tablet/pen) driven (also commandline)? Or is using a touch screen essentially the same as a graphics tablet, and Inkscape is already touch-capable? Thanks for some clarity (answer doesn't need to be very technical) :-)
Thank you very much, brynn
I can not speak for the project, however here are my thoughts about that much requested tablet-interface redesign:
I use Inkscape on a Lenovo 2-in-1 (X220T) running Ubuntu Linux without issue. Even the pen and pressure sensitivity works for drawing.
As far as optimising Inkscape for a touchscreen interface sans-pen... Have you ever tried to use a vector editor on a tablet using just your fingers?
I have on Android, and let me tell you, it sucks a whole lot trying to edit precision points and curves with the blunt tips of the meaty paw-tentacles we humans are saddled with. :) It's why we invented things like trackpads and styluses.
Inkscape presently works great with a stylus. I find the stylus+keyboard/laptop mode extra convenient, because you get all your hotkeys and also the touch/pen screen coolness as well.
For a bit of a laugh you could try out Photoshop on an Android tablet to see what a professional graphics application looks like when it's forced into the Tablet/touch screen paradigm. My findings? You will wish for death after about 10 minutes of attempting to replace GIMP or Photoshop in a professional graphics workflow with it. THe current convention of endless tapping through menus with unlabled icons is hell, and it's what the industry wants to tell people is the future. They do it just to fit that futuristic image, to seem on top of change and to sell you stuff, but even Apple has added a stylus and keyboard cover to their latest iPad, so it's slowly going back in the other direction.
With tablets you will not get the benefit of a speedy hotkey-based workflow either. This is a problem with tablets, and the (incorrect, though popular) idea that tablets are the way of the future and will replace laptops entirely at some point. For the general public, sure. For serious graphics work. No, I'd say: not ever. Not if you value your time anyway. :)
I think what you are seeing in the industry is a 2-in-1 admission that a tablet alone just isn't the right format for serious work. Inkscape is a serious vector illustration program, with focus on professional workflows. Looking trendy with an ultraportable tablet computer takes a bit of a backseat to usability when you have to get projects done.
I bit of buying advice, though: avoid the higher dpi screens. Inkscape is much slower on highdpi screens, and you will save both battery and money choosing a "regular" 1080p screen (if you want that high of resolution). Avoid 4k displays on newer 2-in-1s. I bought a Dell XPS 13 developer eddition, only to return it when Inkscape ran too slowly to be usable on it. I tried adjusting the DPI settings, but no amount of tweaking the interface made it fast enough. With this in mind, ymmv.
This does not mean we can't add nice things that are optimised for tablet use. Take Krita for example. They feature a hovering control-palate that appears when a tablet pen button is pressed. Quite convenient. Note however that they did not need to change the entire interface just to add that bit of functionality. Most artists would appreciate it if it weren't as well, I think. :)
I'd say enjoy your 2-in-1 to it's full capacity and use it in both modes at once. Then you sacrifice nothing. :)
My 2p.
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Hi Friends, Occassionally we've had a message in forums about using Inkscape with a touch screen. And in the past I've always answered "not yet". But now I'm shopping for a new laptop, and approx 90% of the laptops available in my RAM range (16 gb) are "2 in 1" types which have touch screens. I've had to search rather closely to find a non-touch screen! If I look in the lower range of RAM (around 6 gb) the available systems are roughly split between touch and non-touch screens. But even then, it gives the impression that touchscreen computers are much more common than I had imagined. The last time I bought a new computer, touchscreens were rare! Anyway, I wanted to ask the development community -- will Inkscape ever be made to work using a touch screen, or will it always be mouse (or graphics tablet/pen) driven (also commandline)? Or is using a touch screen essentially the same as a graphics tablet, and Inkscape is already touch-capable? Thanks for some clarity (answer doesn't need to be very technical) :-)
Thank you very much, brynn
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785231&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hi and thanks, C R.
So you mean that Inkscape's pressure sensitivity works on a touch screen? You mean like with a stylus, or do you mean using a graphics tablet's pen on the touch screen?
No, I've never used a touchscreen at all (I never even had a smart phone, much less tablet). (I'm technology-deprived :-p)
Thanks again.
_________________________________ From: C R Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 8:05 AM To: Brynn Cc: Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape with touch screens?
I can not speak for the project, however here are my thoughts about that much requested tablet-interface redesign:
I use Inkscape on a Lenovo 2-in-1 (X220T) running Ubuntu Linux without issue. Even the pen and pressure sensitivity works for drawing.
As far as optimising Inkscape for a touchscreen interface sans-pen... Have you ever tried to use a vector editor on a tablet using just your fingers?
I have on Android, and let me tell you, it sucks a whole lot trying to edit precision points and curves with the blunt tips of the meaty paw-tentacles we humans are saddled with. :) It's why we invented things like trackpads and styluses.
Inkscape presently works great with a stylus. I find the stylus+keyboard/laptop mode extra convenient, because you get all your hotkeys and also the touch/pen screen coolness as well.
For a bit of a laugh you could try out Photoshop on an Android tablet to see what a professional graphics application looks like when it's forced into the Tablet/touch screen paradigm. My findings? You will wish for death after about 10 minutes of attempting to replace GIMP or Photoshop in a professional graphics workflow with it. THe current convention of endless tapping through menus with unlabled icons is hell, and it's what the industry wants to tell people is the future. They do it just to fit that futuristic image, to seem on top of change and to sell you stuff, but even Apple has added a stylus and keyboard cover to their latest iPad, so it's slowly going back in the other direction.
With tablets you will not get the benefit of a speedy hotkey-based workflow either. This is a problem with tablets, and the (incorrect, though popular) idea that tablets are the way of the future and will replace laptops entirely at some point. For the general public, sure. For serious graphics work. No, I'd say: not ever. Not if you value your time anyway. :)
I think what you are seeing in the industry is a 2-in-1 admission that a tablet alone just isn't the right format for serious work. Inkscape is a serious vector illustration program, with focus on professional workflows. Looking trendy with an ultraportable tablet computer takes a bit of a backseat to usability when you have to get projects done.
I bit of buying advice, though: avoid the higher dpi screens. Inkscape is much slower on highdpi screens, and you will save both battery and money choosing a "regular" 1080p screen (if you want that high of resolution). Avoid 4k displays on newer 2-in-1s. I bought a Dell XPS 13 developer eddition, only to return it when Inkscape ran too slowly to be usable on it. I tried adjusting the DPI settings, but no amount of tweaking the interface made it fast enough. With this in mind, ymmv.
This does not mean we can't add nice things that are optimised for tablet use. Take Krita for example. They feature a hovering control-palate that appears when a tablet pen button is pressed. Quite convenient. Note however that they did not need to change the entire interface just to add that bit of functionality. Most artists would appreciate it if it weren't as well, I think. :)
I'd say enjoy your 2-in-1 to it's full capacity and use it in both modes at once. Then you sacrifice nothing. :)
My 2p.
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote:
Hi Friends, Occassionally we've had a message in forums about using Inkscape with a touch screen. And in the past I've always answered "not yet". But now I'm shopping for a new laptop, and approx 90% of the laptops available in my RAM range (16 gb) are "2 in 1" types which have touch screens. I've had to search rather closely to find a non-touch screen! If I look in the lower range of RAM (around 6 gb) the available systems are roughly split between touch and non-touch screens. But even then, it gives the impression that touchscreen computers are much more common than I had imagined. The last time I bought a new computer, touchscreens were rare! Anyway, I wanted to ask the development community -- will Inkscape ever be made to work using a touch screen, or will it always be mouse (or graphics tablet/pen) driven (also commandline)? Or is using a touch screen essentially the same as a graphics tablet, and Inkscape is already touch-capable? Thanks for some clarity (answer doesn't need to be very technical) :-)
Thank you very much, brynn
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785231&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
So you mean that Inkscape's pressure sensitivity works on a touch screen? You mean like with a stylus, or do you mean using a graphics tablet's pen on the touch screen?
For pressure sensitivity to work *at all* the screen/pen must support it. Presently there are no desktop or laptop computers that have touch-pressure, so to use pressure at all, you need a stylus, and moreover you need a stylus that supports pressure sensitivity. Inkscape works with Wacom Tablets, which is what most people in the profesional graphics world use for digital illustration. They also make components for laptop screens for Lenovo/IBM tablet computers (selected models only). This is what I have in my x220T. Yes, it works great. :) The stylus can also be used like a mouse too, so you can tap-drag control handles, and points, etc. You can also do this with your finger on my screen, but, well it sucks. :) For the benefit of using your fingers comfortably on the interface Inkscape UI would have to be re-written with everything large enough, which means you can fit less on the screen, which means hiding a lot of options... it's just not worth the effort, imho. There is nothing to gain except a substantially slower workflow, and endless hidden menu navigation to cram in everything that makes Inkscape the graphics powerhouse that it is.
There are features that could be added to make Inkscape a better illustration program with a stylus, though.
For example: 1. Free-canvas view rotation: great for comfort and producing an easier stroke without kinking your wrist around. Just pinch-rotate the screen. 2. Pen-button tool palate (Like in Krita) 3. Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides dialogues)
I think people are probably asking for Inkscape for Android and iOS, but the truth of the matter is, neither is a good enough OS/platform for Inkscape. Time is better spent ignoring the tablet fad and improving Inkscape as a pro-grade desktop application, imho.
Maybe when more tablets get stylus support it could happen, but finger-fumbling your way through a vector editing program isn't anything professional, or even hobbyist artists are going to enjoy very much.
No, I've never used a touchscreen at all (I never even had a smart phone,
much less tablet). (I'm technology-deprived :-p)
Okay. :)
-C
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Thanks for the tip! It's actually f11, shift+f11, f12 to hide everything for me.
We should probably assign a verb/hotkey combo to hide/restore everything except the canvas. I'd suggest using Tab like most other graphics applications do, however I really do like Tab to jump the selection to the next object in the hierarchy... tough one. :)
-C
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3165...> wrote:
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
doesn't shift+f12 make more sense as it's shift+f11 for the other?
Mvh
/Olof ----------------- 3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 13:57, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the tip! It's actually f11, shift+f11, f12 to hide everything for me.
We should probably assign a verb/hotkey combo to hide/restore everything except the canvas. I'd suggest using Tab like most other graphics applications do, however I really do like Tab to jump the selection to the next object in the hierarchy... tough one. :)
-C
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3165...> wrote:
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
ah, sorry, misunderstood the function of these:
f12 = toggle dialogs shift+f11 = toggle menus/toolbars on/off f11 = toggle "distraction free mode" (similar but not same as fullscreen mode in windows)
Of the three I find f11 to be hardest to explain; maybe something like "remove gutter and resize to viewport"...
Anyway, it's quite a load of different things. As a user I'd prefer a single "monocle/distraction free" toggle, which does all three, and undos all three when pressed again. This is similar to text editors like Sublime Text.
Mvh
/Olof ----------------- 3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 14:02, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
doesn't shift+f12 make more sense as it's shift+f11 for the other?
Mvh
/Olof
3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 13:57, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the tip! It's actually f11, shift+f11, f12 to hide everything for me.
We should probably assign a verb/hotkey combo to hide/restore everything except the canvas. I'd suggest using Tab like most other graphics applications do, however I really do like Tab to jump the selection to the next object in the hierarchy... tough one. :)
-C
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Maren Hachmann <maren@...3165...
wrote:
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
There's no need to get rid of the current options. There's something nice about being able to call back one (but not all) of the kinds of dialogues. But yes, a "hide all" or "vanish ui" option would be good.
Maybe ctrl-tab is full-screen+focusmode+hidedialogues.
At any rate, one more verb to add.
-C
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
ah, sorry, misunderstood the function of these:
f12 = toggle dialogs shift+f11 = toggle menus/toolbars on/off f11 = toggle "distraction free mode" (similar but not same as fullscreen mode in windows)
Of the three I find f11 to be hardest to explain; maybe something like "remove gutter and resize to viewport"...
Anyway, it's quite a load of different things. As a user I'd prefer a single "monocle/distraction free" toggle, which does all three, and undos all three when pressed again. This is similar to text editors like Sublime Text.
Mvh
/Olof
3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 14:02, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
doesn't shift+f12 make more sense as it's shift+f11 for the other?
Mvh
/Olof
3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 13:57, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the tip! It's actually f11, shift+f11, f12 to hide everything for me.
We should probably assign a verb/hotkey combo to hide/restore everything except the canvas. I'd suggest using Tab like most other graphics applications do, however I really do like Tab to jump the selection to the next object in the hierarchy... tough one. :)
-C
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Maren Hachmann < maren@...3165...> wrote:
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Yes -- a "toggle monocle mode" verb kind of. ( The term "Monocle mode" is from the minimalistic tiling window manager "dwm" for Linux, which gives the same effect but for any window ).
I agree no need to remove the old ones, but let me clarify that I didn't mean to bring back all toggles on 2nd press of key, but just to "restore" state as before.
So, if dialogs were hidden, but toolbas and menus visible, when requesting monocle mode, pressing monocle mode toggle once more (or if its shift+monocle key), would bring back toolbars and menus, but not make dialogs visible.
I think that is the most sane behaviour from a UX/user perspective.
Mvh
/Olof ----------------- Är du systemutvecklare? Spana in https://cilamp.se
On 22 March 2016 at 14:26, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
There's no need to get rid of the current options. There's something nice about being able to call back one (but not all) of the kinds of dialogues. But yes, a "hide all" or "vanish ui" option would be good.
Maybe ctrl-tab is full-screen+focusmode+hidedialogues.
At any rate, one more verb to add.
-C
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
ah, sorry, misunderstood the function of these:
f12 = toggle dialogs shift+f11 = toggle menus/toolbars on/off f11 = toggle "distraction free mode" (similar but not same as fullscreen mode in windows)
Of the three I find f11 to be hardest to explain; maybe something like "remove gutter and resize to viewport"...
Anyway, it's quite a load of different things. As a user I'd prefer a single "monocle/distraction free" toggle, which does all three, and undos all three when pressed again. This is similar to text editors like Sublime Text.
Mvh
/Olof
3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 14:02, Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...> wrote:
doesn't shift+f12 make more sense as it's shift+f11 for the other?
Mvh
/Olof
3-5-åriga småttingar i närheten? Lek & lär siffror och bokstäver via mobilen m.h.a. Alfamem till Android. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=alfamem
On 22 March 2016 at 13:57, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the tip! It's actually f11, shift+f11, f12 to hide everything for me.
We should probably assign a verb/hotkey combo to hide/restore everything except the canvas. I'd suggest using Tab like most other graphics applications do, however I really do like Tab to jump the selection to the next object in the hierarchy... tough one. :)
-C
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Maren Hachmann < maren@...3165...> wrote:
Am 21.03.2016 um 23:51 schrieb C R:
- Tab to hide everything except the canvas (currently f12 only hides
dialogues)
F11, then Shift + F11 works for me. (Ctrl+F11, which should do it, does nothing for me on LinuxMint Xfce - never investigated if that's a desktop shortcut problem...).
See also: https://inkscape.org/fr/doc/keys091.html#d0e1268
Maren
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
As a person who has been using pen / stylus / touchscreen computers for a very long while, I'd like to weigh in:
- touch is becoming ubiquitous as was noted - there are also tablet computers which have active digitizers / styluses which afford pressure-sensitive input --- Inkscape works well on these as is and is quite nice to draw w/ (at least for people accustomed to Bezier vector drawing programs) --- this is not limited to just graphics tablets for desktop computers or Wacom Cintiq units - simplifying the interface and affording more user control over size / placement of controls and allowing some on-screen modifiers would go a long way towards making Inkscape more usable w/ tablets, whether touch or active digitizer --- I have to run a small button bar utility on my Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 which provides Alt/Shift/Ctrl/Space/Tab/Enter keys.
Flash is descended from Futurewave Smartsketch, a drawing program which was originally designed for use w/ tablet computers, so examining it may afford some useful ideas.
William
I remember when I first discovered you could draw in Inkscape using a wacom stylus. It was about 6 years ago... http://www.opendesignstudio.org/inkscape/samples/emmawolf.png
Touch may be ubiquitous to people who poke around with their fingers on a tablet for content consumption purposes, but the graphics industry has always been about the stylus. Note how even Apple is finally caving in to the demand for it with iPad "Pro". If you have a stylus you don't need to change much ui-wise to make Inkscape tablet-friendly, it's trying to make everything large enough to poke at with your meaty paw-sausages. Imagine all numerical values coming up touch-icon size. Talk about a drawing space hog. The alternative most apps use is popup dialogues for values, also much slower in a workflow. We COULD have a tablet mode, however. Making a different version of inkscape just for tablet seems a bit much though.
If you don't have a stylus, well, welcome to graphic design hell. There are plenty of tablet apps that try.to do vector. I haven't seen one yet that was any good at it in comparison to Inkscape. It's not for lack of features, it was hard-core lack of usability without the precision of a stylus, and the benefits of a whole keyboard's worth of hotkeys. :)
My 2p.
Incidentally, Inkscape can not easily be re-written for tablet OSs, and there's enough work to do on Inkscape proper at the moment. Krita is far more positioned to fill the tablet-based illustration needs of designers than Inkscape is. These are your hard-core tablet folks (I'm one of them) ;).
-C
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:20 PM, William Adams <will.adams@...3004...> wrote:
As a person who has been using pen / stylus / touchscreen computers for a very long while, I'd like to weigh in:
- touch is becoming ubiquitous as was noted
- there are also tablet computers which have active digitizers / styluses
which afford pressure-sensitive input --- Inkscape works well on these as is and is quite nice to draw w/ (at least for people accustomed to Bezier vector drawing programs) --- this is not limited to just graphics tablets for desktop computers or Wacom Cintiq units
- simplifying the interface and affording more user control over size /
placement of controls and allowing some on-screen modifiers would go a long way towards making Inkscape more usable w/ tablets, whether touch or active digitizer --- I have to run a small button bar utility on my Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 which provides Alt/Shift/Ctrl/Space/Tab/Enter keys.
Flash is descended from Futurewave Smartsketch, a drawing program which was originally designed for use w/ tablet computers, so examining it may afford some useful ideas.
William
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
To put a bit of perspective on it, would you rather:
Have a version of Inkscape that works on tablet or would you rather have...
CMYK pdf export for print Full multi-page document support Mesh gradients (coming soon/partially implemented) A vector paintbrush system that emulates the real thing (even watercolour, with mesh gradients. ;)) Customisable UI Freely-rotating multi-touch canvas view (useful in tablet mode) Jpeg, gif, and TIFF export options (*ducks!*) ;) Intelligent file-save that auto-chooses the format based on the extension you type. Better flowed-text (#inkscape irc denizens currently calling it "flawed text", so don't taze me, bro) ;) Smoother gradients Gapless pixel interpolation for adjacent object fills A Tweak/warp tool that doesn't melt your geometry, or add excessive amounts of extra geometry. Full animation support. and lots, lots more. :)
With everything we can imporve in Inkscape, making a tablet version is a novelty that can wait, imho.
-C
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 4:30 PM, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
I remember when I first discovered you could draw in Inkscape using a wacom stylus. It was about 6 years ago... http://www.opendesignstudio.org/inkscape/samples/emmawolf.png
Touch may be ubiquitous to people who poke around with their fingers on a tablet for content consumption purposes, but the graphics industry has always been about the stylus. Note how even Apple is finally caving in to the demand for it with iPad "Pro". If you have a stylus you don't need to change much ui-wise to make Inkscape tablet-friendly, it's trying to make everything large enough to poke at with your meaty paw-sausages. Imagine all numerical values coming up touch-icon size. Talk about a drawing space hog. The alternative most apps use is popup dialogues for values, also much slower in a workflow. We COULD have a tablet mode, however. Making a different version of inkscape just for tablet seems a bit much though.
If you don't have a stylus, well, welcome to graphic design hell. There are plenty of tablet apps that try.to do vector. I haven't seen one yet that was any good at it in comparison to Inkscape. It's not for lack of features, it was hard-core lack of usability without the precision of a stylus, and the benefits of a whole keyboard's worth of hotkeys. :)
My 2p.
Incidentally, Inkscape can not easily be re-written for tablet OSs, and there's enough work to do on Inkscape proper at the moment. Krita is far more positioned to fill the tablet-based illustration needs of designers than Inkscape is. These are your hard-core tablet folks (I'm one of them) ;).
-C
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:20 PM, William Adams <will.adams@...3004...> wrote:
As a person who has been using pen / stylus / touchscreen computers for a very long while, I'd like to weigh in:
- touch is becoming ubiquitous as was noted
- there are also tablet computers which have active digitizers /
styluses which afford pressure-sensitive input --- Inkscape works well on these as is and is quite nice to draw w/ (at least for people accustomed to Bezier vector drawing programs) --- this is not limited to just graphics tablets for desktop computers or Wacom Cintiq units
- simplifying the interface and affording more user control over size /
placement of controls and allowing some on-screen modifiers would go a long way towards making Inkscape more usable w/ tablets, whether touch or active digitizer --- I have to run a small button bar utility on my Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 which provides Alt/Shift/Ctrl/Space/Tab/Enter keys.
Flash is descended from Futurewave Smartsketch, a drawing program which was originally designed for use w/ tablet computers, so examining it may afford some useful ideas.
William
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785351&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Tue, 2016-03-22 at 17:07 +0000, C R wrote:
With everything we can imporve in Inkscape, making a tablet version is a novelty that can wait, imho.
To a certain degree Inkscape's priority list is defined by developer time and I wish more user investment. So if a developer fixes touch screen issues before CMYK, that's to be expected. A lot of those items listed a *hard* and *expensive* to do and we're not yet at the point of Blender where we have hired guns to go hunting the big game of Inkscape's wishlist.
But one day we will :-D
Martin,
To a certain degree Inkscape's priority list is defined by developer time and I wish more user investment. So if a developer fixes touch screen issues before CMYK, that's to be expected.
Fixing touch screen issues, and making a version of Inkscape that will run on iOS and Android (which is probably what people are really asking for) are different animals. Correct if wrong, but I think that would fall under the list of *hard* and *expensive* things as well. :)
But yea, sure, if someone decides to fork it and make a version for tablet OSs, more power to them! :)
It's just from a user perspective, the big asks like that are probably better spend on other hard and expensive items that will make Inkscape a better graphics program, and not simply one that runs on more trendy devices. ;)
My 2p. -C
A lot of those items listed a *hard* and *expensive* to do and we're not yet at the point of Blender where we have hired guns to go hunting the big game of Inkscape's wishlist.
But one day we will :-D
Martin,
There's already one opensource vector drawing app for the iPad: https://github.com/sprang/Inkpad
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 3:49 AM, C R <cajhne@...400...> wrote:
To a certain degree Inkscape's priority list is defined by developer
time and I wish more user investment. So if a developer fixes touch screen issues before CMYK, that's to be expected.
Fixing touch screen issues, and making a version of Inkscape that will run on iOS and Android (which is probably what people are really asking for) are different animals. Correct if wrong, but I think that would fall under the list of *hard* and *expensive* things as well. :)
But yea, sure, if someone decides to fork it and make a version for tablet OSs, more power to them! :)
It's just from a user perspective, the big asks like that are probably better spend on other hard and expensive items that will make Inkscape a better graphics program, and not simply one that runs on more trendy devices. ;)
My 2p. -C
A lot of those items listed a *hard* and *expensive* to do and we're not yet at the point of Blender where we have hired guns to go hunting the big game of Inkscape's wishlist.
But one day we will :-D
Martin,
2016-03-23 0:49 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
To a certain degree Inkscape's priority list is defined by developer time and I wish more user investment. So if a developer fixes touch screen issues before CMYK, that's to be expected.
Fixing touch screen issues, and making a version of Inkscape that will run on iOS and Android (which is probably what people are really asking for) are different animals. Correct if wrong, but I think that would fall under the list of *hard* and *expensive* things as well. :)
Android has NDK, so theoretically it's possible, but GTK won't run on Android (Glib probably won't run either). So making an Android version of Inkscape is basically like creating an entirely new program.
For now, let's focus on lower hanging fruit, such as finishing the GTK3 port. This will significantly improve the situation on Macs.
Best regards, Krzysztof
I agree with GTK+ 3 migration being a positive step... it offers better support for gestures, and a more "touch-friendly" widget design.
AV
On 28 March 2016 at 06:23, Krzysztof Kosiński <tweenk.pl@...400...> wrote:
2016-03-23 0:49 GMT-07:00 C R <cajhne@...400...>:
To a certain degree Inkscape's priority list is defined by developer time and I wish more user investment. So if a developer fixes touch screen issues before CMYK, that's to be expected.
Fixing touch screen issues, and making a version of Inkscape that will run on iOS and Android (which is probably what people are really asking for) are different animals. Correct if wrong, but I think that would fall under the list of *hard* and *expensive* things as well. :)
Android has NDK, so theoretically it's possible, but GTK won't run on Android (Glib probably won't run either). So making an Android version of Inkscape is basically like creating an entirely new program.
For now, let's focus on lower hanging fruit, such as finishing the GTK3 port. This will significantly improve the situation on Macs.
Best regards, Krzysztof
Transform Data into Opportunity. Accelerate data analysis in your applications with Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library. Click to learn more. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785471&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
participants (8)
-
Alex Valavanis -
Brynn -
C R -
Krzysztof Kosiński -
Maren Hachmann -
Martin Owens -
Olof Bjarnason -
William Adams