8:43 a.m.
Hello,
a quick glance tells me there is no RFE I as beginner with the code
could possibly implement in short time, so I want to offer my help
in the host reorganisation away from SF. Maybe people can use this
thread also to collect things that have to be done in this regard.
My limitation is that I have no broadband internet, nor a 24h line
at my hands, though. But surely there are other things to do.
I want the switch, badly, and I think it is more important than RFEs.
ralf
PS: no flames or RFE discssions please in this thread
4:42 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 10:43:41AM +0200, Ralf Stephan wrote:
Hello,
a quick glance tells me there is no RFE I as beginner with the code
could possibly implement in short time, so I want to offer my help
in the host reorganisation away from SF. Maybe people can use this
thread also to collect things that have to be done in this regard.
My limitation is that I have no broadband internet, nor a 24h line
at my hands, though. But surely there are other things to do.
I want the switch, badly, and I think it is more important than RFEs.
Well, the first order of business is to evaluate as many different
providers as possible, and build a matrix of what they support, how good
the support appears to be, etc.
(There is also an option that we could host some/all services ourselves,
although to do that we'd need to find someone with a space in a co-lo
they could provide to the project, and we'd need to acquire at least one
server and find a few folks willing to help with sysadmin stuff.)
Bryce
7:03 a.m.
Well, the first order of business is to evaluate as many different
providers as possible, and build a matrix of what they support, how good
the support appears to be, etc.
This is dependent on the versioning system.
(There is also an option that we could host some/all services
ourselves,
although to do that we'd need to find someone with a space in a co-lo
they could provide to the project, and we'd need to acquire at least one
server and find a few folks willing to help with sysadmin stuff.)
Unless we get an influx of willing sysadmins, I will not consider
this option.
Other questions:
Is the tracker database available in whole somewhere?
There will be conversion issues, also with cvs.
Does someone know if mailing list archives of closed SF projects
stay available?
ralf
7:20 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:03:21AM +0200, Ralf Stephan wrote:
> Well, the first order of business is to evaluate as many
different
> providers as possible, and build a matrix of what they support, how good
> the support appears to be, etc.
This is dependent on the versioning system.
True, however things are often not quite so cut and dried; we may find a
given service willing or planning to add additional versioning systems.
Other questions:
Is the tracker database available in whole somewhere?
We've got a script to download it that someone wrote early on in the
project (we had to migrate tracker items from the Sodipodi database).
There might be an easier way now.
There will be conversion issues, also with cvs.
Yes
Does someone know if mailing list archives of closed SF projects
stay available?
Yes; also, I think we may be able to download or extract the messages
for separate hosting.
Bryce
4:06 p.m.
Bryce Harrington wrote:
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:03:21AM +0200, Ralf Stephan wrote:
>>Well, the first order of business is to evaluate as many different
>>providers as possible, and build a matrix of what they support, how good
>>the support appears to be, etc.
>>
>>
>This is dependent on the versioning system.
>
>
True, however things are often not quite so cut and dried; we may find a
given service willing or planning to add additional versioning systems.
This desire to change comes up a lot. IMHO, there should be a
-compelling- reason
to switch from SF. SF's warts, tho many, are familiar, and we have
learned to work
with them. Some of us have been SF members for years, long before
Inkscape existed.
The staff has always been very friendly to us.
IMHO again, we need better reasons than "it's slow" or "SF sucks."
To
justify such
a painful move, it should not be just for parity, but for some system
that is magnitudes
above what we have. If such an incredible upgrade exists, I would be
quite enthusiastic
about moving to it.
For example, Tigris.org has Subversion, but what else does it have?
>Does someone know if mailing list archives of closed SF projects
>stay available?
>
>
As far as I know, projects on SF are never closed, they just go to sleep.
I think that is in their policy documents.
Bob
7:45 a.m.
There is no consensus for a full host switch, rather that is not at
all an issue. However, there was strong desire to switch to a better
versioning system, though mental had a point against subversion.
I assume there are no technical reasons against a separated cvs
except conversion, but I simply have no experience with that so opinions
on this issue are very welcome.
Now, a consensus on a versioning switch can only be reached if mental's
argument against svn can be mollified. Mental, I thought you would look at
the new systems that build upon svn and tell us if one of these solves
the remaining problem for you.
Lastly, I would ask for opinions on if there should be a comprehensive
overview of svn-based versioning systems being presented to the list
to help reach a consensus, or is that consensus already existent,
only pending mental's issue?
ralf
8:03 a.m.
On Aug 31, 2005, at 12:45 AM, Ralf Stephan wrote:
Now, a consensus on a versioning switch can only be reached if
mental's
argument against svn can be mollified. Mental, I thought you would
look at
the new systems that build upon svn and tell us if one of these solves
the remaining problem for you.
Lastly, I would ask for opinions on if there should be a comprehensive
overview of svn-based versioning systems being presented to the list
to help reach a consensus, or is that consensus already existent,
only pending mental's issue?
I've used a few different systems over the years, but haven't
actually put SVN through it's paces yet.
Most of it's features sound good, but enough has come up in regards
to workflow-lockin to the way the SVN developers think one should
work that I'm not so sure of it now.
Tools are another concern. Personally I use TkCVS extensively, and
use it's UI to speed my workflow for many things (In many situations
that and TortoiseCVS together can beat the pants off of WinCVS). I
look periodically for a SVN client with similar capability and ease,
but haven't seen one yet. And the TkCVS pages make it clear they
aren't doing SVN themselves.
If anyone knows of anything current that could compare, that would be
helpful.
But again, Mental's issues might just be the tip of the iceberg. I
was waiting myself to see what all was presented before delving into
my own research. Oh, and my main experience has been with custom RCS-
wrapping systems, StarTeam, CVS (in many deployments) and Perforce.
8:22 a.m.
On Wednesday 31 August 2005 09:03, Jon A. Cruz wrote:
I've used a few different systems over the years, but
haven't
actually put SVN through it's paces yet.
Most of it's features sound good, but enough has come up in regards
to workflow-lockin to the way the SVN developers think one should
work that I'm not so sure of it now.
I'm missing the lack of tags, but otherwise, it's quite nice for me, as a very
small-scale version-control user. May well create problems on a larger scale
that I'm not aware of.
Are specific alternatives being considered? Or are we just talking about the
status quo (cvs) vs. svn? I forget why, but I gave up on Darcs quite
quickly, and Arch, while cool, is probably more guilty of "workflow-lockin".
Tools are another concern. Personally I use TkCVS extensively, and
use it's UI to speed my workflow for many things (In many situations
that and TortoiseCVS together can beat the pants off of WinCVS). I
look periodically for a SVN client with similar capability and ease,
but haven't seen one yet. And the TkCVS pages make it clear they
aren't doing SVN themselves.
If anyone knows of anything current that could compare, that would be
helpful.
I'm not sure what special feature you're looking for from TkCVS, but there are
a few decent GUI options for subversion. I believe there is a functional
TortoiseSVN, for instance. RapidSVN (the official client, I think) is
cross-platform, and probably relatively complete, though I know some features
are missing. I use eSVN along with a few simple scripts, personally.
--
Lee Braiden
http://www.DigitalUnleashed.com
4:13 p.m.
Jon A. Cruz indagò:
But again, Mental's issues might just be the tip of the iceberg.
I was
waiting myself to see what all was presented before delving into my own
research. Oh, and my main experience has been with custom RCS- wrapping
systems, StarTeam, CVS (in many deployments) and Perforce.
Currently on planet.debian.org there are several comments about the
different SCM systems used by the developers...
--
Buongiorno.
Complimenti per l'ottima scelta.
5:32 p.m.
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, Emanuele Aina wrote:
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:13:37 +0200
From: Emanuele Aina <faina.mail@...92...>
To: Inkscape ML <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] host reorg
Jon A. Cruz indagò:
> But again, Mental's issues might just be the tip of the iceberg. I was
> waiting myself to see what all was presented before delving into my own
> research. Oh, and my main experience has been with custom RCS- wrapping
> systems, StarTeam, CVS (in many deployments) and Perforce.
Currently on planet.debian.org there are several comments about the
different SCM systems used by the developers...
James Henstridge
http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh
has written about Version Control systems
http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2005/08/29/0
Another link which may be of interest:
Gnome looks at alternatives to CVS
http://live.gnome.org/Stuttgart2005/FreeformSessions/SourceCodeManagement
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
5:54 p.m.
On 9/1/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
> [ snip ]
> Currently on planet.debian.org <http://planet.debian.org> there are
several comments about the
> different SCM systems used by the developers...
has written about Version Control systems
http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2005/08/29/0
Another link which may be of interest:
Gnome looks at alternatives to CVS
http://live.gnome.org/Stuttgart2005/FreeformSessions/SourceCodeManagement
See Also
Case study: Mono switches to Subversion
http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2004-11/0745.shtml
http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2004-11/0766.shtml
Ben
6:12 p.m.
On Sun, Sep 04, 2005 at 06:54:26PM +0100, Ben Fowler wrote:
On 9/1/05, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
>
> > [ snip ]
> > Currently on planet.debian.org <http://planet.debian.org> there are
> several comments about the
> > different SCM systems used by the developers...
>
> has written about Version Control systems
> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2005/08/29/0
>
> Another link which may be of interest:
> Gnome looks at alternatives to CVS
> http://live.gnome.org/Stuttgart2005/FreeformSessions/SourceCodeManagement
>
See Also
Case study: Mono switches to Subversion
http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2004-11/0745.shtml
http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2004-11/0766.shtml
Thanks, these are very interesting links.
Would someone mind doing a quick test of cvs2svn on the Inkscape
codebase and see if it works cleanly, and if not, what sorts of issues
we may need to sort out?
Bryce
9:13 a.m.
Bryce:
Would someone mind doing a quick test of cvs2svn on the Inkscape
codebase and see if it works cleanly, and if not, what sorts of issues
we may need to sort out?
I did a run on two other codebases: djvu and cimg
First summary: cvs2svn did not have problems given the right options
but is somewhat slow (python). Interpolating from the larger run
projects a runtime of one maybe two hours for inkscape on a 1.5GHz
machine. The version used was 1.3.0 which appears to be 30% faster
than 1.2.1. The repository size appears to increase up to one third
(Berkeley DB).
The process is not automatic as there might be conflicts from identical
tag/branch names, where a restart with additional options is necessary.
Also, downloading from SF stalled frequently, even with wget -c, and
had to be interrupted/continued.
Now who will give me access to his broadband-connected 3 GHz machine?
2 GB are likely needed. I will install subversion (user space),
cvs2svn, download the 87MB repo, convert, and report.
cimg djvu inkscape
----------------------
CVS Repo size tar.bz2 (blocks) 6556 13916 87000
CVS Repo size unpacked (blocks) 13772 71776 ?
Number of CVS revisions 1039 18531 ?
Time to create SVN repo dir (s) 34 675 ?
Number of SVN commits 332 3828 ?
SVN Repo size (blocks) 14684 96252 ?
ralf
6657
days inactive
6671
days old
inkscape-devel@lists.inkscape.org
13 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Alan Horkan -
Ben Fowler -
Bob Jamison -
Bryce Harrington -
Colin Marquardt -
Emanuele Aina -
Jon A. Cruz -
Lee Braiden -
Ralf Stephan