Global snapping toggle
Hi,
More than once it has been requested to implement an easily accessible toggle for snapping, be it either through a key-binding, menu-item or icon in the toolbar. This is very easy to implement now we have such a toggle (which is currently only accessible through the document properties dialog).
If we add a menu item, we could put it in the view-menu below "Grid" and "Guides". Should I add it? And is there maybe a better place which I overlooked? We don't really need an icon then, or do we?
Diederik
On Dec 17, 2007 6:04 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
If we add a menu item, we could put it in the view-menu below "Grid" and "Guides". Should I add it?
Sounds good to me, thanks! I don't think we need an icon.
bulia byak <buliabyak@...360...> writes:
On Dec 17, 2007 6:04 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...360...> wrote:
If we add a menu item, we could put it in the view-menu below "Grid" and "Guides". Should I add it?
Sounds good to me, thanks! I don't think we need an icon.
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
On Tuesday 18 December 2007 07:36:53 pm Michael Grosberg wrote:
bulia byak <buliabyak@...360...> writes:
On Dec 17, 2007 6:04 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...360...> wrote:
If we add a menu item, we could put it in the view-menu below "Grid" and "Guides". Should I add it?
Sounds good to me, thanks! I don't think we need an icon.
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
IMHO, we already have one of most intuitively selected shortcuts for toggling grids and guides on/off. Why not use Ctrl+| and Ctrl+# ? Or something similar?
Vlada
Vladimir Savic wrote:
IMHO, we already have one of most intuitively selected shortcuts for toggling grids and guides on/off. Why not use Ctrl+| and Ctrl+# ? Or something similar?
That would also make sense, but for now I've chosen for one single shortcut to disable all snapping. I think this is the cleanest thing to do.
We could indeed also have individual shortcuts for toggling the snapping to grids, snapping to guides and snapping to objects. Which option you prefer is a matter of taste I guess...
Diederik
On Tuesday 18 December 2007 08:16:22 pm Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Vladimir Savic wrote:
IMHO, we already have one of most intuitively selected shortcuts for toggling grids and guides on/off. Why not use Ctrl+| and Ctrl+# ? Or something similar?
That would also make sense, but for now I've chosen for one single shortcut to disable all snapping. I think this is the cleanest thing to do.
We could indeed also have individual shortcuts for toggling the snapping to grids, snapping to guides and snapping to objects. Which option you prefer is a matter of taste I guess...
Thank you for feedback. One important thing I've forgoten: We need statusbar indicator of what is turned on/off. I'm plugging this in just because we still don't have on-canvas indicator of snapping, unfortunately...
Vlada
Diederik
Vladimir Savic wrote:
Thank you for feedback. One important thing I've forgoten: We need statusbar indicator of what is turned on/off. I'm plugging this in just because we still don't have on-canvas indicator of snapping, unfortunately...
The on-canvas snap indicator is on my to-do list, so don't worry ;-)
Diederik
Michael Grosberg wrote:
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
Well, I tried but the menu insisted on displaying "Ctrl+semicolon" instead of "Ctrl+;" which looks ugly. BTW, why would we want to copy the key-binding from Photoshop, and not from Illustrator or Coreldraw? Does anyone happen to know what these programs use?
Anyway, I've used the "*" shortcut for now, which goes well visually with the "|" and "#" immediately above in the view-menu. Besides, I was planning to use some kind of blinking asterisk for the on-canvas snapping indicator so this would make this short-cut quite intuitive. I stole it from the star tool however, which already has shift-F9 assigned to it. IMHO assigning the asterisk to the snapping toggle instead of the star tool is much more usefull. Am I offending someone here ;-) ?
Another thing: shouldn't we reassign or reorder the F1-F9 shortcuts for the tools? It's a mess now....
Diederik
On Tuesday 18 December 2007 10:34:02 pm Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Michael Grosberg wrote:
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
Well, I tried but the menu insisted on displaying "Ctrl+semicolon" instead of "Ctrl+;" which looks ugly. BTW, why would we want to copy the key-binding from Photoshop, and not from Illustrator or Coreldraw? Does anyone happen to know what these programs use?
Anyway, I've used the "*" shortcut for now, which goes well visually with the "|" and "#" immediately above in the view-menu. Besides, I was planning to use some kind of blinking asterisk for the on-canvas snapping indicator so this would make this short-cut quite intuitive. I stole it from the star tool however, which already has shift-F9 assigned to it. IMHO assigning the asterisk to the snapping toggle instead of the star tool is much more usefull. Am I offending someone here ;-) ?
Another thing: shouldn't we reassign or reorder the F1-F9 shortcuts for the tools? It's a mess now....
I agree, but beware - F1 is stolen by most of WMs for global help access. You could easily make even bigger mess.
Vlada
Diederik
On Dec 18, 2007 5:34 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
Anyway, I've used the "*" shortcut for now, which goes well visually with the "|" and "#" immediately above in the view-menu. Besides, I was planning to use some kind of blinking asterisk for the on-canvas snapping indicator so this would make this short-cut quite intuitive. I stole it from the star tool however, which already has shift-F9 assigned to it. IMHO assigning the asterisk to the snapping toggle instead of the star tool is much more usefull. Am I offending someone here ;-) ?
No so long as you propose another single-key shortcut for the star tool :)
Another thing: shouldn't we reassign or reorder the F1-F9 shortcuts for the tools? It's a mess now....
Really? What is the mess exactly?
On 2007-December-18 , at 23:52 , bulia byak wrote:
On Dec 18, 2007 5:34 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
Anyway, I've used the "*" shortcut for now, which goes well visually with the "|" and "#" immediately above in the view-menu. Besides, I was planning to use some kind of blinking asterisk for the on-canvas snapping indicator so this would make this short-cut quite intuitive. I stole it from the star tool however, which already has shift-F9 assigned to it. IMHO assigning the asterisk to the snapping toggle instead of the star tool is much more usefull. Am I offending someone here ;-) ?
No so long as you propose another single-key shortcut for the star tool :)
Another thing: shouldn't we reassign or reorder the F1-F9 shortcuts for the tools? It's a mess now....
Really? What is the mess exactly?
I think Diederik is referring to the order or the keys in the tools' bar: F1 F2 Shift+F2 F3 F4 F5 * F9 F6 Shift+F6 Ctrl+F6 Shift+F7 F8 Ctrl+F2 Ctrl+F1 F7
Not exactly the most intuitive setting right? Rather than reordering them now and being forced to change later when some new tools appear, would it be possible to map F* keys to the tools, in order, whatever the tool is (F1,...,F12, Shift-F1...,Shift-F12)? Orthogonally to this, I would gladly see the one key mnemonics in the tool tips rather than the F* key. First because they're mnemonics and hence, easier to memorize (particularly given the current state of the F* keys shortcuts). Second because, IMHO the F* keys shortcuts would really serve their purpose only if they are in order, and if they are there is not a big benefit in displaying them in the tooltip (this is supposing that it is only possible to show one shortcut in the tooltip, if both can fit it, that would be great too). Third because Fn keys are not always easily reached on a laptop's keyboard (often specials keys such as volume up/down are set to be the F* keys and one has to press Fn+F1 to actually get F1).
I think I already filled a feature request about this a while ago. It is very probably being triaged, or has been already given the huge activity on Launchpad.
JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/
On Dec 18, 2007 7:08 PM, jiho <jo.irisson@...400...> wrote:
Not exactly the most intuitive setting right?
Not more so than any other ordering with 12 function keys and >12 tools. Something will have to use modifiers. The current layout is historical but has the great advantage of using bare keys for the most common tools (because they came first) and modifiers for the more exotic tools (which were added later). It also has a few nice mnemonic touches, such as f4 for rectangle and f8 for text which matches Xara.
Orthogonally to this, I would gladly see the one key mnemonics in the tool tips rather than the F* key. First because they're mnemonics and hence, easier to memorize (particularly given the current state of the F* keys shortcuts). Second because, IMHO the F* keys shortcuts would really serve their purpose only if they are in order, and if they are there is not a big benefit in displaying them in the tooltip (this is supposing that it is only possible to show one shortcut in the tooltip, if both can fit it, that would be great too). Third because Fn keys are not always easily reached on a laptop's keyboard (often specials keys such as volume up/down are set to be the F* keys and one has to press Fn+F1 to actually get F1).
No objections here, feel free to patch that
Diederik van Lierop schrieb:
Anyway, I've used the "*" shortcut for now, which goes well visually with the "|" and "#" immediately above in the view-menu. Besides, I was planning to use some kind of blinking asterisk for the on-canvas snapping indicator so this would make this short-cut quite intuitive. I stole it from the star tool however, which already has shift-F9 assigned to it. IMHO assigning the asterisk to the snapping toggle instead of the star tool is much more usefull. Am I offending someone here ;-) ?
Hmm, I used to like it quite a lot. IMHO this was one of the cutest mnemonics ... ;-)
But of course it's alright with me if people agree. Just to throw another suggestion in: How about the percent sign '%'? It looks a bit like a line with two nodes to which it can snap. Well, just a thought...
I also very much agree with jiho (who proposed this in a different email) that mnemonic shortcuts rather than F* keys should be in the tooltips for the various tools. Also, the keyboard shortcuts for the various possible actions in the Node Tool (like join/split nodes, make nodes symmetric, etc.) should definitely be displayed in the tooltips, at least for those for which a shortcut exists (not sure if this is the case for all of them). The same probably applies to other tools. I will start changing this when I find the time.
Max
Maximilian Albert wrote:
Hmm, I used to like it quite a lot. IMHO this was one of the cutest mnemonics ... ;-)
It did indeed match well with it's tool!
How about the percent sign '%'? It looks a bit like a line with two nodes to which it can snap. Well, just a thought...
Yep, that's also a good one! I will use that instead and give you your star tool back ;-)
I also very much agree with jiho (who proposed this in a different email) that mnemonic shortcuts rather than F* keys should be in the tooltips for the various tools.
I agree too. Why do we have both function keys and characters connected to the tools at all? Probably most users don't know about the characters, as these are not mentioned in the tooltip. If we could free the function keys, then this would give us some more freedom in assigning them to other functions. F1 for help, F2 for editing/renaming (maybe keep the frequently used F8 also for this as people are used to this, ), etc. We will easily find use for all of them. Or are these merely Windows conventions? Plus, next time we introduce a new tool it won't mess up the ordering of the function keys.
Diederik
On Dec 19, 2007 1:22 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
I agree too. Why do we have both function keys and characters connected to the tools at all?
Because these two approaches come from two lines of vector editors. Illustrator and its relatives use letters, Corel Draw and its relatives use F keys. We use both.
characters, as these are not mentioned in the tooltip. If we could free the function keys,
Please no. This would be a way too disruptive change at this stage, and I don't really see any need for it.
merely Windows conventions? Plus, next time we introduce a new tool it won't mess up the ordering of the function keys.
New tools don't mess up anything. They just take previously unused F key combinations, grouping when possible by similarity of function (e.g. F6 and its modifiers are all drawing tools).
Diederik van Lierop schrieb:
How about the percent sign '%'? It looks a bit like a line with two nodes to which it can snap. Well, just a thought...
Yep, that's also a good one! I will use that instead and give you your star tool back ;-)
Thanks! :=)
But is it just me or does this shortcut not work in SVN? When the Document Properties dialog is open, pressing '%' doesn't have a visible effect. In particular, the 'Enable snapping' checkbox doesn't change.
Also, I just realized that even when 'Enable snapping' is unchecked, it still seems to snap. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this is a bug. Is it easy to fix or should I file an official report in Launchpad?
Max
Maximilian Albert wrote:
But is it just me or does this shortcut not work in SVN? When the Document Properties dialog is open, pressing '%' doesn't have a visible effect. In particular, the 'Enable snapping' checkbox doesn't change.
It works for me though! This is exactly what rev. #16763 intended to achieve. I guess you're at an even higher revision, as you've just tested Johan's angled guidelines, but could you please confirm this to be sure? Otherwise I don't have a clue what could be wrong. Maybe I should just reboot and check if it works in XP, as I'm coding on Linux.
Also, I just realized that even when 'Enable snapping' is unchecked, it still seems to snap. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this is a bug. Is it easy to fix or should I file an official report in Launchpad?
Well, then this probably is related :-(. If you file a bug however then please rate it as critical, so I can at least try to score the max. 12 points ;-)
Regards,
Diederik
Diederik van Lierop schrieb:
Maximilian Albert wrote:
But is it just me or does this shortcut not work in SVN? When the Document Properties dialog is open, pressing '%' doesn't have a visible effect. In particular, the 'Enable snapping' checkbox doesn't change.
It works for me though! This is exactly what rev. #16763 intended to achieve. I guess you're at an even higher revision, as you've just tested Johan's angled guidelines, but could you please confirm this to be sure?
Confirmed. When you submitted rev. #16763 I had a quick look at it (just out of curiosity) and it looked good to me, too, so I didn't test it at the time. Just discovered it now.
Otherwise I don't have a clue what could be wrong. Maybe I should just reboot and check if it works in XP, as I'm coding on Linux.
So am I, thus I don't think it's operating system specific. Could it be a localization issue? But I normally start Inkscape with LANG=C, and the percent sign should be sufficiently language-independent. Hmm, no clue.
Maybe it's really caused by the global snapping option being non-functional, as you conjectured. But then I wonder why it works for you.
Also, I just realized that even when 'Enable snapping' is unchecked, it still seems to snap. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this is a bug. Is it easy to fix or should I file an official report in Launchpad?
Well, then this probably is related :-(. If you file a bug however then please rate it as critical, so I can at least try to score the max. 12 points ;-)
Done. Good luck hunting this one. :)
Max
Diederik van Lierop <mail@...360...> writes:
Michael Grosberg wrote:
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
Well, I tried but the menu insisted on displaying "Ctrl+semicolon" instead of "Ctrl+;" which looks ugly.
It gets worse: I was writing the previous post from my home linux machine. Now that I'm at work I can see I did not remember the shortcut correctly: It's actually Ctrl+Shift+;.
I was hoping to have the same shortcut because most professional artists combine raster and vector art in their work on a day to day basis, and as you develop this muscle memory of how to do certain things in one program, it gets hard to shift mental gears each time you switch apps. For example, I often find myself trying to pan with the MMB in photoshop or use the spacebar in Inkscape or 3DS max.
But seeing as how the Photoshop shortcut is unnecessarily complex and they're not even 100% consistent within their own application suite, I retract the suggestion.
just for reference here are their actual keyboard shortcuts:
Photoshop CS1 shortcuts: show guides - Ctrl+; show grid - Ctrl+' snap (global on/off) - Ctrl+Shift+;
Illustrator & Indesign CS1 shortcuts: show guides - Ctrl+; show grid - Ctrl+' snap to guides - Ctrl+Shift+; snap to grid - Ctrl+Shift+' smart guides (sort of illustrator only hyper-snap) - Ctrl+U
Corel Draw X3 shortcuts (not a user, found it online): snap to grid - Ctrl+Y snap to objects - Alt+Z
-----Original Message----- From: inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Michael Grosberg Sent: woensdag 19 december 2007 10:08 To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Global snapping toggle
Diederik van Lierop <mail@...360...> writes:
Michael Grosberg wrote:
This is good news! May I suggest having the same key binding as photoshop as well? it's CTRL+;
Well, I tried but the menu insisted on displaying "Ctrl+semicolon" instead of "Ctrl+;" which looks ugly.
It gets worse: I was writing the previous post from my home linux machine. Now that I'm at work I can see I did not remember the shortcut correctly: It's actually Ctrl+Shift+;.
I was hoping to have the same shortcut because most professional artists combine raster and vector art in their work on a day to day basis, and as you develop this muscle memory of how to do certain things in one program, it gets hard to shift mental gears each time you switch apps. For example, I often find myself trying to pan with the MMB in photoshop or use the spacebar in Inkscape or 3DS max.
But seeing as how the Photoshop shortcut is unnecessarily complex and they're not even 100% consistent within their own application suite, I retract the suggestion.
Note that there are special keybinding files that can be used to make Inkscape behave more like other programs.
Diederik, is there also a global grid snapping toggle and a global guide snapping toggle? (ctrl+shift+# and ctrl+shift+| ?)
Thanks, Johan
J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... wrote:
Diederik, is there also a global grid snapping toggle and a global guide snapping toggle? (ctrl+shift+# and ctrl+shift+| ?)
I've thought of that, but then we would have for example a global snapping toggle AND the snap-to-all-grids toggle which have to be enabled both. That would be confusing, because nothing will happen if you toggle one while the other is off. There's no feedback, unless the document-properties dialog is open. On top of that, there's also the per-grid snapping toggle, which would make three! I see the pros of your proposal for advanced users, but these do not outweigh the cons IMHO.
BTW, did anyone notice that shift-ctrl-D is tied to the color picker tool instead of the document properties? Did I mess up? Or is it just my setup that went bezerk?
Diederik
Diederik van Lierop schrieb:
BTW, did anyone notice that shift-ctrl-D is tied to the color picker tool instead of the document properties? Did I mess up? Or is it just my setup that went bezerk?
Sorry, I think that was my fault. RFE #170590 proposed to use 'D' to toggle (not just switch to) the dropper tool. I must have messed it up when implementing this, but it should be fixed now. Thanks for the hint, and please tell me if I missed anything else.
Max
On Dec 18, 2007 4:34 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
Well, I tried but the menu insisted on displaying "Ctrl+semicolon" instead of "Ctrl+;" which looks ugly.
We have a special function for prettifying the shortcuts in the menu - I think it's used for others, just look it up and add the semicolon replacement to it.
On Monday 17 December 2007 11:12:41 pm bulia byak wrote:
On Dec 17, 2007 6:04 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
If we add a menu item, we could put it in the view-menu below "Grid" and "Guides". Should I add it?
Sounds good to me, thanks! I don't think we need an icon.
Hi there,
In the spite of this conversation, I think even "Select *" icons aren't actually needed as icons. I even think "Snap to *" icons are more needed then select ones. if some operations have been agreed on how to perform them application wise (keyboard shortcuts related) then those are copy, cut, paste and select all. I don't see the point having them taking toolbar space.
I could be wrong and very likely I am. Perhaps because I'm missing something...
Regards, Vlada
participants (8)
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unknown＠example.com -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
bulia byak -
Diederik van Lierop -
jiho -
Maximilian Albert -
Michael Grosberg -
Vladimir Savic