I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
While researching this topic, I came across an interesting discussion in 2009 with the title "rotating guides" in the inkscape-devel mailing list, where the interesting bit starts at the 3rd page. It appears that the ability to select guides is a bit controversial.
I would like to express my opinion on some of these matters as I think it is still current.
I agree that guides are not the same as objects and that not all tools make sense for them. However, I disagree that not implementing a helpful feature because it introduces UI issues is a valid argument. For example, I think that not being able to set the stroke and fill before an object is drawn (except for the color) is unexpected as well. So let's not implement fill and stroke at all, because people might get confused. That is basically what is being said below.
Grayed out dialog items were invented because sometimes things just don't make sense. I think that is the solution to this problem.
Here are some quotes from that discussion:
"I don't think making guides selectable is a good idea, because barring any ugly hacks we can only select SPObjects."
"if we make guides selectable, this will open a whole can of worms - people will complain that the guides cannot be painted by clicking on a color swatch, cannot be aligned with Align dialog, cannot be grouped etc. etc. A lot of things that are natural for objects make little sense for guides, but by allowing to select them we hint that they are "sort of" objects. The amount of special-casing that this will require in the code and, more importantly, in user documentation and user habits and practices is rather frightening."
"It may be confusing for some people, but I think it shouldn't be for the vast majority, especially if it's documented. There are plenty of places where the program can be potentially a LOT more confusing that this, but we don't worry so much if it provides a wanted functionality."
"Some of the tools are designed to operate on objects of finite dimensions only. When an object has infinite dimensions, it creates problems."
On 2-3-2015 1:39, Bit Barrel wrote:
I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
There is a branch that adds a guide dialog (or better: fills the Guides tab in the Document Properties dialog with more widgets), featuring a list of guides in which you can select guides to delete them, etc. https://code.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/guides-improvements It is not nearly as convenient as on-canvas selecting, but it may be a workable intermediate solution, without pervasive code changes. (the three examples you mention would be doable from that dialog)
Obvious downside of such a dialog: selecting the correct guide from a list with guide name, angle, X, and Y coordinates is not nice, and it would need some visual on-canvas indicator. Perhaps being able to sort the list according to X or Y coordinate helps finding the correct guide to delete / split / etc. Still, with many guides, especially angled guides it quickly becomes troublesome I'm afraid...
The work in that branch is not completed (last time I looked, which is a while ago) and so needs further work. Perhaps you can try to contribute to that branch, as a step up to try to tackle selectable guides.
cheers, Johan
Thanks for the branch link. I will definitely have a look. It is good to see some people are working on this.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Johan Engelen <jbc.engelen@...2592...> wrote:
On 2-3-2015 1:39, Bit Barrel wrote:
I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
There is a branch that adds a guide dialog (or better: fills the Guides tab in the Document Properties dialog with more widgets), featuring a list of guides in which you can select guides to delete them, etc. https://code.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/guides-improvements It is not nearly as convenient as on-canvas selecting, but it may be a workable intermediate solution, without pervasive code changes. (the three examples you mention would be doable from that dialog)
Obvious downside of such a dialog: selecting the correct guide from a list with guide name, angle, X, and Y coordinates is not nice, and it would need some visual on-canvas indicator. Perhaps being able to sort the list according to X or Y coordinate helps finding the correct guide to delete / split / etc. Still, with many guides, especially angled guides it quickly becomes troublesome I'm afraid...
The work in that branch is not completed (last time I looked, which is a while ago) and so needs further work. Perhaps you can try to contribute to that branch, as a step up to try to tackle selectable guides.
cheers, Johan
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I am seriously considering contributing to this branch but I would like to have some sort of guarantee that it will be included in a future public release of inkscape.
I have seen some other promising contributions (geometric tools for example) which never made it to the public release and this worries me.
What is the process for approval? Someone else mentioned before that selectable guides would "open a can of worms". I strongly disagree with that (the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for one thing) but at the same time I do not fancy getting involved in too much politics.
So how do I know my effort will be fruitful?
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Bit Barrel <bitbarrelmedia@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the branch link. I will definitely have a look. It is good to see some people are working on this.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Johan Engelen <jbc.engelen@...2592...> wrote:
On 2-3-2015 1:39, Bit Barrel wrote:
I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
There is a branch that adds a guide dialog (or better: fills the Guides tab in the Document Properties dialog with more widgets), featuring a list of guides in which you can select guides to delete them, etc. https://code.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/guides-improvements It is not nearly as convenient as on-canvas selecting, but it may be a workable intermediate solution, without pervasive code changes. (the three examples you mention would be doable from that dialog)
Obvious downside of such a dialog: selecting the correct guide from a list with guide name, angle, X, and Y coordinates is not nice, and it would need some visual on-canvas indicator. Perhaps being able to sort the list according to X or Y coordinate helps finding the correct guide to delete / split / etc. Still, with many guides, especially angled guides it quickly becomes troublesome I'm afraid...
The work in that branch is not completed (last time I looked, which is a while ago) and so needs further work. Perhaps you can try to contribute to that branch, as a step up to try to tackle selectable guides.
cheers, Johan
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Simply put, there are no guarantees. More important, once you have two patches accepted we grant commit access. If a feature is pretty complete with no major issues (reproducible crashes, and backwards compatibility are considered major) it's pretty unlikely someone will reverse your changes. We always want the most complete features possible, but we're pretty generous with what we allow. Most important, if you express an intent to stay and refine, approval is far more likely.
Cheers, Josh On Mar 5, 2015 10:27 PM, "Bit Barrel" <bitbarrelmedia@...400...> wrote:
I am seriously considering contributing to this branch but I would like to have some sort of guarantee that it will be included in a future public release of inkscape.
I have seen some other promising contributions (geometric tools for example) which never made it to the public release and this worries me.
What is the process for approval? Someone else mentioned before that selectable guides would "open a can of worms". I strongly disagree with that (the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for one thing) but at the same time I do not fancy getting involved in too much politics.
So how do I know my effort will be fruitful?
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Bit Barrel <bitbarrelmedia@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the branch link. I will definitely have a look. It is good to see some people are working on this.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Johan Engelen <jbc.engelen@...2592...
wrote:
On 2-3-2015 1:39, Bit Barrel wrote:
I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
There is a branch that adds a guide dialog (or better: fills the Guides tab in the Document Properties dialog with more widgets), featuring a list of guides in which you can select guides to delete them, etc. https://code.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/guides-improvements It is not nearly as convenient as on-canvas selecting, but it may be a workable intermediate solution, without pervasive code changes. (the three examples you mention would be doable from that dialog)
Obvious downside of such a dialog: selecting the correct guide from a list with guide name, angle, X, and Y coordinates is not nice, and it would need some visual on-canvas indicator. Perhaps being able to sort the list according to X or Y coordinate helps finding the correct guide to delete / split / etc. Still, with many guides, especially angled guides it quickly becomes troublesome I'm afraid...
The work in that branch is not completed (last time I looked, which is a while ago) and so needs further work. Perhaps you can try to contribute to that branch, as a step up to try to tackle selectable guides.
cheers, Johan
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Thanks for clearing that up. That sounds reasonable. Will start working on it ASAP :-)
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Josh Andler <scislac@...400...> wrote:
Simply put, there are no guarantees. More important, once you have two patches accepted we grant commit access. If a feature is pretty complete with no major issues (reproducible crashes, and backwards compatibility are considered major) it's pretty unlikely someone will reverse your changes. We always want the most complete features possible, but we're pretty generous with what we allow. Most important, if you express an intent to stay and refine, approval is far more likely.
Cheers, Josh On Mar 5, 2015 10:27 PM, "Bit Barrel" <bitbarrelmedia@...400...> wrote:
I am seriously considering contributing to this branch but I would like to have some sort of guarantee that it will be included in a future public release of inkscape.
I have seen some other promising contributions (geometric tools for example) which never made it to the public release and this worries me.
What is the process for approval? Someone else mentioned before that selectable guides would "open a can of worms". I strongly disagree with that (the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for one thing) but at the same time I do not fancy getting involved in too much politics.
So how do I know my effort will be fruitful?
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Bit Barrel <bitbarrelmedia@...400...> wrote:
Thanks for the branch link. I will definitely have a look. It is good to see some people are working on this.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Johan Engelen < jbc.engelen@...2592...> wrote:
On 2-3-2015 1:39, Bit Barrel wrote:
I do a lot of CAD-like work and to work around certain missing features, I use guides a lot. The snapping system is awesome but the guides are not very flexible.
What would be a huge improvement is if it would be possible to select guides. This opens up a whole range of possibilities which extensions and internal tools can benefit from. Examples are: -Create a 3rd guide in the middle of two selected guides. -Create a 3rd guide equidistant from two other selected guides. -Select a few guides and delete them.
There is a branch that adds a guide dialog (or better: fills the Guides tab in the Document Properties dialog with more widgets), featuring a list of guides in which you can select guides to delete them, etc. https://code.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/guides-improvements It is not nearly as convenient as on-canvas selecting, but it may be a workable intermediate solution, without pervasive code changes. (the three examples you mention would be doable from that dialog)
Obvious downside of such a dialog: selecting the correct guide from a list with guide name, angle, X, and Y coordinates is not nice, and it would need some visual on-canvas indicator. Perhaps being able to sort the list according to X or Y coordinate helps finding the correct guide to delete / split / etc. Still, with many guides, especially angled guides it quickly becomes troublesome I'm afraid...
The work in that branch is not completed (last time I looked, which is a while ago) and so needs further work. Perhaps you can try to contribute to that branch, as a step up to try to tackle selectable guides.
cheers, Johan
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
participants (3)
-
Bit Barrel -
Johan Engelen -
Josh Andler