Re: [Inkscape-devel] UI proposal for Freehand with automatic LPE (stroke effects)
Not in the sense that SVG does not support anything but regular bezier paths. So at the SVG level, they will always be regular paths with LPE attached. But we can certainly make dealing with Spiros more convenient - for example, we can add to the Pen tool a switch allowing it to draw a spiro path directly.
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
(is it possible to do LPE on top of Spiro lines yet though? Current LPE seems to be only one at a time...)
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3450/lpeie2.png
I've also removed the word "presets" before the presets (because it should be obvious enough, and is part of Shape), and I've added the repeat modes when Clipboard is chosen. I'm not sure about what to do with all the other options though (or if they're even necessary with the pencil tool), the toolbar is getting quite crowded as is.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Overall, excellent. I would love to see something like this implemented for Pen and Pencil.
Several comments:
- The idea of setting width as integer times a float is very good imho. Did you borrow it somewhere? or it's yours? :)
- Spiro and Bezier as separate modes make sense (for now, Spiro would disable profiles, but this will be fixed when LPEs can be stacked, this is already being worked on), but I'm not sure about the other buttons in your Mode switch. When I need straight lines, I just do click-click-click in Pen as opposed to Pencil. As for the remaining two buttons, what's the difference? Smoothness? That can be adjusted by the Smooth parameter.
- Obviously Smooth only makes sense for Pencil, not Pen. It's long overdue, it should have been added there long ago actually...
- I think the two drop-downs after Shape are a bit messy. First of all, "calligraphic" should not be used as it refers to the Calligraphic pen which is quite different. Then, I think a better organization of the same options would be:
-- a Profile drop-down with options None (default), all the shape presets, and Clipboard which takes the shape from clipboard. The "Last used" is not needed because, once you choose some profile, it will of course apply to all paths you create automatically. Next to it, a repeat mode chooser (so it's available for all profiles, not only for clipboard ones as in your proposal) and an Edit button which opens the LPE dialog where further options can be adjusted.
-- a separate dash pattern drop-down, next to the markers selector; both are simply disabled when Profile is not None (not that they are not available for LPE paths, but they are simply confusing; power users would still be able to use them on LPE paths via Fill&Stroke).
- The idea of setting width as integer times a float is very good
imho. Did you borrow it somewhere? or it's yours? :)
Mine! (just thought of it yesterday in fact) :D I'm lazy, and the Last thing I'd ever want to do is have to manually enter 0.5 px and similar values just because I want to draw a few thin lines. D:
- Spiro and Bezier as separate modes make sense (for now, Spiro would
disable profiles, but this will be fixed when LPEs can be stacked, this is already being worked on), but I'm not sure about the other buttons in your Mode switch. When I need straight lines, I just do click-click-click in Pen as opposed to Pencil. As for the remaining two buttons, what's the difference? Smoothness? That can be adjusted by the Smooth parameter.
Excellent points! Just Bezier and Spiro it is, with one Smoothness setting!
As for the rest: - drop-down with None, Presets and Clipboard: done! - repeat mode next to it: done! - LPE edit button: d... how does it look like? Well... added anyway! - separate dash and markers, with both disabled for LPE: done!
If possible: - Presets and repeat should only appear for LPE and Clipboard (well, Presets grayed out for Clipboard) - Dash style and markers only appear for "none." This would reduce clutter, as the bar is otherwise pretty long.
Did I miss anything? There could also be an edit button next to dash style, to access the rest of the less common commands.
And if this goes through, Inkscape would actually have acquired an easy interface for vector brushes! :D Joy! Who besides me would like to see "Vector brushes" announced for 0.47? :D Come on now!
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Very good, but I actually suggested to combine 3 and 4 into a single widget - just a drop-down which has "None", then all the graphic profiles, then "Clipboard". Makes sense and saves space. The 5 can perhaps be a drop-down too, with the same graphic items but in a vertical menu. The Edit LPE button should have the same icon as the LPE dialog itself, which currently has none :) It's difficult to come up with an icon actually, as the LPEs are all so different - but maybe something like a simple path with a letter E on it for "Effect" ?
Now, if only someone could implement all this in code... :)
Very good, but I actually suggested to combine 3 and 4 into a single widget - just a drop-down which has "None", then all the graphic profiles, then "Clipboard". Makes sense and saves space. The 5 can perhaps be a drop-down too, with the same graphic items but in a vertical menu. The Edit LPE button should have the same icon as the LPE dialog itself, which currently has none :) It's difficult to come up with an icon actually, as the LPEs are all so different - but maybe something like a simple path with a letter E on it for "Effect" ?
Fixed! No more width problem! :D
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8218/lpecz5.png
For now, for the icon, I just used the icon for Inkscape preferences.
Valerie,
When I look at the mockup and think that this will be implemented in the future, I can't stop myself from dancing happily
I've been dancing too! Then I remember:
Now, if only someone could implement all this in code... :)
*sigh*
Anyway, I'll wait a few more days for additional comments and editing (thanks so much for the input by the way Bulia!), and submit as blueprint.
Alright, last changes:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5961/lpenc7.png
1. I've added a few divider lines.
2. To save space, I've replaced Smooth with S ("Smooth" appears on mouse-over)
3. As a (bad) artist wannabe, I'd rather have the "shapes" functionality before the stroke and markers style, but let's be honest, it makes more sense to have the stroke and markers style (which are base functionalities) before the fancy shape effects...
4. I've also added an explanation of "Width" behaviour: it is not the width of "stroke" but the width of the total shape, whether it is a line or an LPE shape.
Think of it this way: in "none" mode and in "presets" mode, you're drawing lines most of the time, and most people probably expect width to behave in a same way whether the line is simple or complex.
Clipboard items just retain their properties save for scaling. No reason for a copied red heart to suddenly turn black. For Pattern along Path in 0.46, the pasted shape takes on the properties of the path instead of retaining its own. I'm not sure if 0.47 has a mode that allows you to keep the original object's style, but if it doesn't then this mode should be added.
Anyway, if I don't receive any additional comments for revisions, this is the version I'll submit for Blueprints tomorrow, along with some comments. Any additional changes can then made from there.
I really like it !!
I've added the proposal!
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/inkscape/+spec/vector-brush
If there are no objections, can anybody go add a priority and design status? (I'm assuming I'm not allowed to do it myself :) )
-----Original Message----- From: inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Valerie Sent: vrijdag 30 mei 2008 13:52 To: Inkscape-devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] UI proposal for Freehand with automatic LPE(stroke effects)
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
(is it possible to do LPE on top of Spiro lines yet though? Current LPE seems to be only one at a time...)
Not anymore ;-) (svn rev 18743)
I like this proposal, seems well thought-out and fun to implement. Hope to have a go at it, but don't expect it soon...
Cheers, Johan
(is it possible to do LPE on top of Spiro lines yet though? Current LPE seems to be only one at a time...)
Not anymore ;-) (svn rev 18743)
Oh! Excellent! :D
Question: if the default included shapes were Spiro lines (for smoother effects), would that affect the speed of the resulting strokes compared to if they were just Bezier? Just asking.
In any case, the part about making a few defaults shouldn't be too hard, and if they are insufficient, the "Copy and start drawing" feature would handle the task quite nicely anyway.
Say, is it possible to do apply LPE with multiple shapes yet? Imagine copying strings of text and just "drawing" them onto a path. Hahah! The pencil toolbar looks depressingly empty to me now!
I like this proposal, seems well thought-out and fun to implement. Hope to have a go at it, but don't expect it soon...
Yay! What is your definition of "not soon" though? Not "not soon" like it was "it's been over 5 years for me now and Gimp Still doesn't have a size fade brush," I hope? :(
Would it be possible for 0.47, parts of it at least?
Glad people are interested in it, in any case! :D I'll submit the blueprint tomorrow if there are no more revisions to make.
By the way, somewhat relevant: is it possible to auto-generate a skeleton when you are doing calligraphy paths? If it is, then it would make it easier to use as well. When editing the calligraphy path, what appears then is the skeleton, you can edit the form with the tweak tools (I don't think Too many people still edit calligraphy strokes node by node?)
If people then ask the difference between a calligraphy stroke and a pencil-produced vector stroke, the answer is: - the calligraphy stroke allows you to automatically generate a complex stroke shape as you draw - the pencil tool by contrast, only allows you to apply pre-existing ones after you've drawn a simple path
Valerie schrieb:
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
A simplistic version of this is now in SVN -- it's just a toggle button in pen and pencil tool which, when enabled, automatically applies the Spiro Splines LPE to newly drawn paths. It's still not very comfortable to use since you can't "live preview" the spiro shape while drawing but at least it spares you the hassle to go to the LPE dialog each time.
The live preview thing might be part of future work of mine since I'm likely to need something along these lines for better LPE integration anyway. Also, one or two other things from your blueprint proposal may be covered by my work but I can't say for sure yet which ones and to which extent. Will keep you posted. :)
Max
P.S.: Contrary to my announcement I didn't reply to your original proposal any more because Bulia did a *much* better job than anything I could have contributed. :)
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
Thank you! :D :D :D
(does it turn off the annoying red skeleton of the original bezier path?)
I tried make-ing the new version, but the changes to the knot- holder LPE seems to be causing me problems (then again, I admit to not knowing what I'm doing save for reading the manual):
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `knot-holder-entity.o', needed by `libinkpre.a'. Stop.
Oh well. I'll try again tomorrow.
The live preview thing might be part of future work of mine since I'm likely to need something along these lines for better LPE integration anyway. Also, one or two other things from your blueprint proposal may be covered by my work but I can't say for sure yet which ones and to which extent. Will keep you posted. :)
Neat! Thanks!
P.S.: Contrary to my announcement I didn't reply to your original proposal any more because Bulia did a *much* better job than anything I could have contributed. :)
Don't worry! I assumed you were busy. It happens. ;)
Valerie wrote:
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
Thank you! :D :D :D
(does it turn off the annoying red skeleton of the original bezier path?)
For the record, you can toggle off the path highlighting/outline with one of the buttons on the node editing toolbar (you can even change the color of it in preferences). People who come from Illustrator have been wanting that feature for a while. I personally like it because it makes things feel more interactive and lets me know where object boundaries are (I don't like invisible things). It's like how when I use a word processor I always have all codes showing, I just like to know what's where and why. :)
Cheers, Josh
For the record, you can toggle off the path highlighting/outline with one of the buttons on the node editing toolbar (you can even change the color of it in preferences).
Thank you! Actually, now I suspect it's a bug... (unless it's one of those "features").
Whether the "Show the outline of the path" is on or off, when you're in edit mode, the red outline flickers on for a second before disappearing again. Since it happens all the time, it's rather distracting, especially when you have "Show the outline of the path" Off so it's basically blinking all the time whenever you're mouse-over or editing the path.
Now I see that it's actually Least annoying when you have "Show the outline of the path" On and have the object selected, because then at least the line is constant.
So? Is this a feature or a bug?
Valerie wrote:
For the record, you can toggle off the path highlighting/outline with one of the buttons on the node editing toolbar (you can even change the color of it in preferences).
Thank you! Actually, now I suspect it's a bug... (unless it's one of those "features").
Whether the "Show the outline of the path" is on or off, when you're in edit mode, the red outline flickers on for a second before disappearing again. Since it happens all the time, it's rather distracting, especially when you have "Show the outline of the path" Off so it's basically blinking all the time whenever you're mouse-over or editing the path.
It definitely seems like a bug to me. If people want the highlight, they'll have it turned on. So, if you want to file a bug report, I'll confirm it. :)
There is a simple workaround for the moment though. If you go into the preferences for the node tool, you can modify the highlight time to 1ms, which doesn't show the flicker for me.
-Josh
It definitely seems like a bug to me. If people want the highlight, they'll have it turned on. So, if you want to file a bug report, I'll confirm it. :)
There is a simple workaround for the moment though. If you go into the preferences for the node tool, you can modify the highlight time to 1ms,
which doesn't show the flicker for me.
Actually, it seems the solution already exists in the svn version, but not 0.46: in the svn Preferences, you get to check off "Path outline flash on mouse-over." However, this option did not exist in 0.46. Whoops! My bad!
(perhaps someone should make the default "off"?)
Valerie schrieb:
I nearly forgot this! Added Spiro to possible modes! :D
Thank you! :D :D :D
(does it turn off the annoying red skeleton of the original bezier path?)
Not yet, but that's on my list of very-soon-to-do things because I need it, too. :=)
I tried make-ing the new version, but the changes to the knot- holder LPE seems to be causing me problems (then again, I admit to not knowing what I'm doing save for reading the manual):
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `knot-holder-entity.o', needed by `libinkpre.a'. Stop.
It should work now. I had forgotton to add a newly created file (see my reply to Bob's email).
Max
Maximilian Albert schrieb:
Valerie schrieb:
(does it turn off the annoying red skeleton of the original bezier path?)
Not yet, but that's on my list of very-soon-to-do things because I need it, too. :=)
Now it does. :)
Cheers, Max
participants (6)
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unknown＠example.com -
Andy Fitzsimon -
bulia byak -
Josh Andler -
Maximilian Albert -
Valerie