Hello all,
Would anyone be interested in following up on the problems between the OpenDocument format and SVG?
Mental, you seemed most versed in discussing these issues previously. I fear we are too late! OOo is geared up with OpenDocument support and I noticed that Krita and other KOffice apps already support the format. Man, why couldn't OpenDocument just use SVG man...ugh!
Inkscape will need to support import/export of OpenDocument in the near future. http://books.evc-cit.info/odbook/book.html
I have added two bugs for this for export and import: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1235849&gro...
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1233861&gro...
How do you all feel about? What are your thoughts? If you are interested in seeing a quick overview of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
Scribus already supports this format as well.
Daniel, could you inform both lists about the state of your discussion with OASIS about this?
Jon
-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Daniel Carrera <dcarrera@...878...> To: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> Subject: SVG in OpenDocument. Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 04:16:40 -0400
Hi Jon,
I've been trying to follow up on the issue with SVG and OpenDocument. I admit I'm out of my area here, I don't really know much about SVG.
I've been trying to contact developers in OpenOffice.org in charge of SVG import to get them to list where OpenDocument fails to be SVG compatible and send the information to the OASIS TC. Gary says that the TC really looks at incomming comments and will try to fix the format.
Since you know SVG, and you found areas where OpenDocument is not doing things right, I was hoping that you too might contact the OASIS TC. The mailing list is office-comment@...879...
I'm sure that getting the format fixed will be a slow process. I've never heard of a standards body that did things fast. But I do want to see the format fixed.
As for myself, I'm slowly reading through a book on OpenDocument, so I can have a better idea of what I'm talking about:
http://books.evc-cit.info/odbook/book.html
Cheers, Daniel.
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:07:31 -0700 From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> To: Open Clip Art Library list <clipart@...626...>, Inkscape Development Mailing List inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Clipart] SVG in OpenDocument
Hello all,
Would anyone be interested in following up on the problems between the OpenDocument format and SVG?
I really hope someone with more techincal authority than me will step up to this and I want to thank Daniel for tackling it (the OpenDocument format is huge and scary). It is a shame that OpenDocument seems to be moving even further away from SVG in an attempt to support more features when what we would like to see is it moving more towards SVG.
Would be great to be able to throw the main.xml from an OpenDocument at an SVG parser and get some reasonable results. The potential for XML formats to degrade gracefully is an interesting one and if OpenDocument was constructed as SVG with extras instead of new format vaguely resembling SVG it could work and potentially exploit a much wider variety of existing tools.
Mental, you seemed most versed in discussing these issues previously. I fear we are too late! OOo is geared up with OpenDocument support and I noticed that Krita and other KOffice apps already support the format. Man, why couldn't OpenDocument just use SVG man...ugh!
Krita is the Paint application. I'm almost certain it is not using OpenDocument.
Karbon 14 the draw application is not using OpenDocument yet and is currently without a maintainer. If we have any enthusiastic C++ programmers interested in improving the SVG Importer for Karbon (and the exporter too) it would really help.
KChart will not be using the OpenDocumetn Draw format but rather it will be using a Chart/Graph format from OpenDocument. KChart provides SVG export using the built in functionality of QPainter in QT3 and this is due to be improved later in the QT4 development cycle.
Inkscape will need to support import/export of OpenDocument in the near future. http://books.evc-cit.info/odbook/book.html
Work is being done by INdt on behalf of Nokia to improve the OpenDocument support in both Abiword and Gnumeric. There will be quite a lot of potential for code reuse when that work is more advanced.
I'm sure that getting the format fixed will be a slow process. I've never heard of a standards body that did things fast. But I do want to see the format fixed.
As for myself, I'm slowly reading through a book on OpenDocument, so I can have a better idea of what I'm talking about:
Here's hoping this all works out.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Abiword http://www.abisource.com Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/ Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 03:04 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:07:31 -0700 From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> To: Open Clip Art Library list <clipart@...626...>, Inkscape Development Mailing List inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Clipart] SVG in OpenDocument
Hello all,
Would anyone be interested in following up on the problems between the OpenDocument format and SVG?
I really hope someone with more techincal authority than me will step up to this and I want to thank Daniel for tackling it (the OpenDocument format is huge and scary). It is a shame that OpenDocument seems to be moving even further away from SVG in an attempt to support more features when what we would like to see is it moving more towards SVG.
Would be great to be able to throw the main.xml from an OpenDocument at an SVG parser and get some reasonable results. The potential for XML formats to degrade gracefully is an interesting one and if OpenDocument was constructed as SVG with extras instead of new format vaguely resembling SVG it could work and potentially exploit a much wider variety of existing tools.
The OpenDocument TC is totally interested in supporting SVG and have worked to do this. I think things will get better. The main thing is that they have extra functionality that SVG doesn't support, and for these elements have made their own namespace I believe. I think is ok now...our speaking up paid off already.
Mental, you seemed most versed in discussing these issues previously. I fear we are too late! OOo is geared up with OpenDocument support and I noticed that Krita and other KOffice apps already support the format. Man, why couldn't OpenDocument just use SVG man...ugh!
Krita is the Paint application. I'm almost certain it is not using OpenDocument.
Karbon 14 the draw application is not using OpenDocument yet and is currently without a maintainer. If we have any enthusiastic C++ programmers interested in improving the SVG Importer for Karbon (and the exporter too) it would really help.
Yes, it does in karbon-1.4.0 on gentoo.
KChart will not be using the OpenDocumetn Draw format but rather it will be using a Chart/Graph format from OpenDocument. KChart provides SVG export using the built in functionality of QPainter in QT3 and this is due to be improved later in the QT4 development cycle.
Inkscape will need to support import/export of OpenDocument in the near future. http://books.evc-cit.info/odbook/book.html
Work is being done by INdt on behalf of Nokia to improve the OpenDocument support in both Abiword and Gnumeric. There will be quite a lot of potential for code reuse when that work is more advanced.
Good...
I'm sure that getting the format fixed will be a slow process. I've never heard of a standards body that did things fast. But I do want to see the format fixed.
As for myself, I'm slowly reading through a book on OpenDocument, so I can have a better idea of what I'm talking about:
Here's hoping this all works out.
Sincerely
Agree!
Jon
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 03:04 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:07:31 -0700 From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> To: Open Clip Art Library list <clipart@...626...>, Inkscape Development Mailing List inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Clipart] SVG in OpenDocument
I really hope someone with more techincal authority than me will step up to this and I want to thank Daniel for tackling it (the OpenDocument format is huge and scary). It is a shame that OpenDocument seems to be moving even further away from SVG in an attempt to support more features when what we would like to see is it moving more towards SVG.
Would be great to be able to throw the main.xml from an OpenDocument at an SVG parser and get some reasonable results. The potential for XML formats to degrade gracefully is an interesting one and if OpenDocument was constructed as SVG with extras instead of new format vaguely resembling SVG it could work and potentially exploit a much wider variety of existing tools.
The OpenDocument TC is totally interested in supporting SVG and have
Correct me if I'm wrong but I got the impression they were ditching the basic Path element for something else as part of their efforts to support more features (connectors specifically i believe it was). Path is a fundamental element of SVG so using something else seems like a really awful idea. Hopefully I am mistaken.
worked to do this. I think things will get better. The main thing is that they have extra functionality that SVG doesn't support, and for these elements have made their own namespace I believe. I think is ok now...our speaking up paid off already.
Mental, you seemed most versed in discussing these issues previously. I fear we are too late! OOo is geared up with OpenDocument support and I noticed that Krita and other KOffice apps already support the format. Man, why couldn't OpenDocument just use SVG man...ugh!
Krita is the Paint application. I'm almost certain it is not using OpenDocument.
Karbon 14 the draw application is not using OpenDocument yet and is currently without a maintainer. If we have any enthusiastic C++ programmers interested in improving the SVG Importer for Karbon (and the exporter too) it would really help.
Yes, it does in karbon-1.4.0 on gentoo.
It is not using it instead of the default Karbon 14 file format which is what I had expected and confused me. Karbon 14 has support for Open Office Draw allright. (Kivio unfortunately however doesn't support very many file formats at all.)
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 16:07 -0700, Jon Phillips wrote:
Hello all,
Would anyone be interested in following up on the problems between the OpenDocument format and SVG?
I brought it to the attention of the SVG WG leadership, and I believe they went as far as teleconferencing.
I have to assume either that the SVG WG decided that the OD use of the SVG namespace was acceptable, or that they weren't able to reach an agreement.
But, really, it's out of my hands at this point. The final decision lay with the respective working groups. And now at this point, I believe the standard's gone before the EU, and I think accepted. So we're stuck with it as-is.
Go Europa.
-mental
On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 01:48 -0400, MenTaLguY wrote:
On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 16:07 -0700, Jon Phillips wrote:
Hello all,
Would anyone be interested in following up on the problems between the OpenDocument format and SVG?
I brought it to the attention of the SVG WG leadership, and I believe they went as far as teleconferencing.
I have to assume either that the SVG WG decided that the OD use of the SVG namespace was acceptable, or that they weren't able to reach an agreement.
But, really, it's out of my hands at this point. The final decision lay with the respective working groups. And now at this point, I believe the standard's gone before the EU, and I think accepted. So we're stuck with it as-is.
Go Europa.
Ok, I emailed w3c SVG list to see what is up and what we can (and need to) do.
Jon
participants (3)
-
Alan Horkan -
Jon Phillips -
MenTaLguY