Re: [Inkscape-devel] inkscape interface icons
One more good reason for a single icon file: packaging.
One of the things which has helped to make my life easier is the sane way inkscape is setup as a source tarball and a well done configure script. This made making decent rpms miles easier.
If you have spent half a night chasing down missing files (sometimes icons) and fixing broken makefiles trying to build an rpm - you'll understand completely ;)
Peter
On Tue, 2004-03-16 at 05:06, Peter Linnell wrote:
One more good reason for a single icon file: packaging.
One of the things which has helped to make my life easier is the sane way inkscape is setup as a source tarball and a well done configure script. This made making decent rpms miles easier.
You just undid your own argument, probably unwittingly.
You like Inkscape being set up as a source tarball and a well done configure script... how, prey tell, would splitting up an SVG doc alter this situation? Still one tarball. Check. Still sane configure script. Check. Am I missing something?
If you have spent half a night chasing down missing files (sometimes icons) and fixing broken makefiles trying to build an rpm - you'll understand completely ;)
Don't lose the files in the first place then they won't go missing. ;)
Seriously, though, you might spend half a night editting a giant SVG doc trying to track down the issue with a single icon, when it would be much easier if said icon was isolated in a single file. It goes both ways.
Peter Linnell wrote:
One more good reason for a single icon file: packaging.
One of the things which has helped to make my life easier is the sane way inkscape is setup as a source tarball and a well done configure script. This made making decent rpms miles easier.
And the fewer dependencies and fewer installation hacks, the better.
If you have spent half a night chasing down missing files (sometimes icons) and fixing broken makefiles trying to build an rpm - you'll understand completely ;)
--- which we have been doing recently with those pesky individual .xmp files!!!
Peter
Oh, and dont forget CSS and XSLT being able to morph everything... themes and portability.
I don't know who originally came up with the idea of one file leveraging the benefits of XML. Makes life for -us- (the #1 reason) so much easier. Smart dude. I owe that man a beer! ;-)
Bob
Hi all: sorry if I'm wrong, but I guess you have never touched de icons.svg.
1º If the icons are ok, then the setup or tar.bz or whatever should be ok. If the MAKE is wrong the compiling will be wrong, etc.
2º Icons, side by side in the same canvas with hidden names are hard to manage. You want to click one and you click the other you are not concentrate in the job with icons flying around.
3º If I like alignment icons (which is not the case) is hard just to substitute only those icons. Is hard to make a theme from two or more.
4º Somebody says Inkscape doesn't need themeing. As long as it's beeing used in several platforms/enviroments it should and people will ask for it sooner or later, for the shake of integration. Old school designers use to work which such a different interfaces that integration with desktop wasn't an issue. Now, if you usee Gnome, Kde, Mac and Windows, it should at last has four themes. I am not going to do all of them indeed.
Well at this point, all icons shouldn't really need to be redone, because GTK should now which system is running on and move from one theme to another for system interaction icons like: open, print, etc. even pick them from the system stock icons.
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Really guys, I don't want to steal your sleep with this conversation, just don't remove the png icons possibility (and complete it, because there are some icons that can only be in xpm format)
Yours: Néstor Díaz
El Martes, 16 de Marzo de 2004 07:37, Bob Jamison escribió:
Peter Linnell wrote:
One more good reason for a single icon file: packaging.
One of the things which has helped to make my life easier is the sane way inkscape is setup as a source tarball and a well done configure script. This made making decent rpms miles easier.
And the fewer dependencies and fewer installation hacks, the better.
If you have spent half a night chasing down missing files (sometimes icons) and fixing broken makefiles trying to build an rpm - you'll understand completely ;)
--- which we have been doing recently with those pesky individual .xmp files!!!
Peter
Oh, and dont forget CSS and XSLT being able to morph everything... themes and portability.
I don't know who originally came up with the idea of one file leveraging the benefits of XML. Makes life for -us- (the #1 reason) so much easier. Smart dude. I owe that man a beer! ;-)
Bob
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. For exemple in kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 12:13, herve couvelard escribió:
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
That's my point, if you don't know that:
i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc..
you want probably make a new icon theme let's say, for Kde coherence. My request is not a user feature is a developer usability and integration feature to help me and other theme Inkscape. And the way any other software makes themes are through separate different images and other files in a directory. Even winamp/xmms skins are not a *.WSZ file, it's a compressed directory with the images inside (zip compression actually, just rename)
I have made an icon theme for Inkscape (is lost now, I will start again one of this days when all icons could be pngs), and I know what a pain is to pick one icon in the icons.svg file and touch it. Or create one icons.svg from zero.
The icons.svg file is inherited from Sodipodi, what I think it was a "I can therefore I do it"
Again, everyone virtually, in their imagination, thinks it's perfect to have everything in one file, when from a developer point of view, which is this case (users doesn't theme their apps every two months), the real world is different and no application is only one file neither before or after compiling: -Apache, apache modules, what about compiliing webpages inside apache? -Php, php.ini, php extensions, /pear everything is spread off. -Linux Kernel, modules, boot scripts, modules.conf, etc.
Maybe all of you have a moreicons.dll and windowsregistry-point-of-view. As soon as I see a whole new theme implemented for Inkscape, I will believe this new stream I never heard about in opensource develpment: One File to Rule Them All. (Maybe is just this academy awards stuff)
If you want to keep on with the icons.svg idea, it's okay for me, I just want to be able to use subdirectories of themes and to have all icons available in png (some of them can only be done in xpm)
Yours: Nestor Diaz
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I think that the cursor icons will have to stay in XPM (precision). These are located in src/pixmaps.
However, on principle of being an SVG app, I think the general consensus is to move all icons into icons.svg for the time being. If someone wants to work on another solution, then that is great, but time + energy is going into icons.svg for this current release.
We really would like your help on designing icons. Please help out! We want your help!
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 12:30, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 12:13, herve couvelard escribió:
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
That's my point, if you don't know that:
i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc..
you want probably make a new icon theme let's say, for Kde coherence. My request is not a user feature is a developer usability and integration feature to help me and other theme Inkscape. And the way any other software makes themes are through separate different images and other files in a directory. Even winamp/xmms skins are not a *.WSZ file, it's a compressed directory with the images inside (zip compression actually, just rename)
I have made an icon theme for Inkscape (is lost now, I will start again one of this days when all icons could be pngs), and I know what a pain is to pick one icon in the icons.svg file and touch it. Or create one icons.svg from zero.
The icons.svg file is inherited from Sodipodi, what I think it was a "I can therefore I do it"
Again, everyone virtually, in their imagination, thinks it's perfect to have everything in one file, when from a developer point of view, which is this case (users doesn't theme their apps every two months), the real world is different and no application is only one file neither before or after compiling: -Apache, apache modules, what about compiliing webpages inside apache? -Php, php.ini, php extensions, /pear everything is spread off. -Linux Kernel, modules, boot scripts, modules.conf, etc.
Maybe all of you have a moreicons.dll and windowsregistry-point-of-view. As soon as I see a whole new theme implemented for Inkscape, I will believe this new stream I never heard about in opensource develpment: One File to Rule Them All. (Maybe is just this academy awards stuff)
If you want to keep on with the icons.svg idea, it's okay for me, I just want to be able to use subdirectories of themes and to have all icons available in png (some of them can only be done in xpm)
Yours: Nestor Diaz
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%1470&alloc_id638&op%C3%8Ck _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 20:54, Jonathan Phillips escribió:
I think that the cursor icons will have to stay in XPM (precision). These are located in src/pixmaps.
However, on principle of being an SVG app, I think the general consensus is to move all icons into icons.svg for the time being. If someone wants to work on another solution, then that is great, but time + energy is going into icons.svg for this current release.
why not severeal svg files?
We really would like your help on designing icons. Please help out! We want your help!
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 12:30, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 12:13, herve couvelard escribió:
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
That's my point, if you don't know that:
i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc..
you want probably make a new icon theme let's say, for Kde coherence. My request is not a user feature is a developer usability and integration feature to help me and other theme Inkscape. And the way any other software makes themes are through separate different images and other files in a directory. Even winamp/xmms skins are not a *.WSZ file, it's a compressed directory with the images inside (zip compression actually, just rename)
I have made an icon theme for Inkscape (is lost now, I will start again one of this days when all icons could be pngs), and I know what a pain is to pick one icon in the icons.svg file and touch it. Or create one icons.svg from zero.
The icons.svg file is inherited from Sodipodi, what I think it was a "I can therefore I do it"
Again, everyone virtually, in their imagination, thinks it's perfect to have everything in one file, when from a developer point of view, which is this case (users doesn't theme their apps every two months), the real world is different and no application is only one file neither before or after compiling: -Apache, apache modules, what about compiliing webpages inside apache? -Php, php.ini, php extensions, /pear everything is spread off. -Linux Kernel, modules, boot scripts, modules.conf, etc.
Maybe all of you have a moreicons.dll and windowsregistry-point-of-view. As soon as I see a whole new theme implemented for Inkscape, I will believe this new stream I never heard about in opensource develpment: One File to Rule Them All. (Maybe is just this academy awards stuff)
If you want to keep on with the icons.svg idea, it's okay for me, I just want to be able to use subdirectories of themes and to have all icons available in png (some of them can only be done in xpm)
Yours: Nestor Diaz
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%1470&alloc_id638&op%C3%8Ck _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Here is why icons are in 'icons.svg' - a single file:
1.) less read time from hard disk 2.) less processing time in parsing multiple svg files 3.) maintainability 4.) no need right now 5.) process and functions already exist for use of icons.svg 6.) not the main focus of my time (but could be someone else's) 7.) if it ain't broke, don't fix it...
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 15:38, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 20:54, Jonathan Phillips escribió:
I think that the cursor icons will have to stay in XPM (precision). These are located in src/pixmaps.
However, on principle of being an SVG app, I think the general consensus is to move all icons into icons.svg for the time being. If someone wants to work on another solution, then that is great, but time + energy is going into icons.svg for this current release.
why not severeal svg files?
We really would like your help on designing icons. Please help out! We want your help!
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 12:30, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 12:13, herve couvelard escribió:
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
That's my point, if you don't know that:
i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc..
you want probably make a new icon theme let's say, for Kde coherence. My request is not a user feature is a developer usability and integration feature to help me and other theme Inkscape. And the way any other software makes themes are through separate different images and other files in a directory. Even winamp/xmms skins are not a *.WSZ file, it's a compressed directory with the images inside (zip compression actually, just rename)
I have made an icon theme for Inkscape (is lost now, I will start again one of this days when all icons could be pngs), and I know what a pain is to pick one icon in the icons.svg file and touch it. Or create one icons.svg from zero.
The icons.svg file is inherited from Sodipodi, what I think it was a "I can therefore I do it"
Again, everyone virtually, in their imagination, thinks it's perfect to have everything in one file, when from a developer point of view, which is this case (users doesn't theme their apps every two months), the real world is different and no application is only one file neither before or after compiling: -Apache, apache modules, what about compiliing webpages inside apache? -Php, php.ini, php extensions, /pear everything is spread off. -Linux Kernel, modules, boot scripts, modules.conf, etc.
Maybe all of you have a moreicons.dll and windowsregistry-point-of-view. As soon as I see a whole new theme implemented for Inkscape, I will believe this new stream I never heard about in opensource develpment: One File to Rule Them All. (Maybe is just this academy awards stuff)
If you want to keep on with the icons.svg idea, it's okay for me, I just want to be able to use subdirectories of themes and to have all icons available in png (some of them can only be done in xpm)
Yours: Nestor Diaz
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
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All right guys, I give up, just my final thoughts:
El Viernes, 19 de Marzo de 2004 04:25, Jonathan Phillips escribió:
Here is why icons are in 'icons.svg' - a single file:
1.) less read time from hard disk
how much is less
2.) less processing time in parsing multiple svg files
how much is less
3.) maintainability
I have given several reason why is not maintainable, If you like the one file approach allow Inkscape to read tarballs
4.) no need right now
I do need, I don't like at all Inkscape icon set.
5.) process and functions already exist for use of icons.svg
So?
6.) not the main focus of my time (but could be someone else's)
is up to you, thanks for your comments anyway.
7.) if it ain't broke, don't fix it...
Is broken because if a user goes to> /usr/share/inkscape he/she will see a bunch of icons and a couple of text files all together. Okay, we are moving to just one file (we are fixing something right now), removing any other icon, but we need something to choose a whatevertheme.svg icon theme from inkscape interface etc. (we are fixing something) Also we are cooperating with Scribus developers. My idea is to make one theme (not the default one for the moment) to match Scribus-Inkscape-The Gimp. Well , in fact what I would like is a communication method like www.freedesktop.org but www.freedtp.org in our case. Protocols, Formats, Colorspaces, Interfaces, etc.
From this point of view, you can also see that if I make an icon set with pngs
for Scribus and The Gimp, I will be able to directly use them with Inkscape, but if Inkscape flyes away from standard themeing solutions it will give to more than one some headaches.
Yours: Néstor Díaz ps: the attached graphic is gpl
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 15:38, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 20:54, Jonathan Phillips escribió:
I think that the cursor icons will have to stay in XPM (precision). These are located in src/pixmaps.
However, on principle of being an SVG app, I think the general consensus is to move all icons into icons.svg for the time being. If someone wants to work on another solution, then that is great, but time
- energy is going into icons.svg for this current release.
why not severeal svg files?
We really would like your help on designing icons. Please help out! We want your help!
Jon
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 12:30, nestor diaz wrote:
El Jueves, 18 de Marzo de 2004 12:13, herve couvelard escribió:
5º The last argument is not new. I would like to hear a real advantage of a monolithic file. No themeing system that I know is based upon a monolithic file. Some times they try to reduce it us much as possible, but at the end you have several files. Sorry, I forgot wallpapers: they are monolithic files ;) If there is no real advantage my four other arguments should win (yeah!!)
Hello,
1 am not very familiar with programming environnement, nor i am familiar with programming software so my thoughts are not guru-like.
But i am used to install software and configuring it. I (it is just my thinking) find much more easy when everything is in a single configuration file (or one easy-to-find-file for each group) For exemple in apache : one monolithic file for everything , proftpd also, php also.
I think it is easier to manage one file for the icons, because you know where to search when someting is going wrong, and it is something that allmost everybody won't look for, so if it is a very large file, that doesn't matter. it would be difficult to find out what is going wrong in a directory with directories nested with dozens of icons. kde and the themes of kde, i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc...
That's my point, if you don't know that:
i don't know where to look (i found the icons'directories ) when some icons are missing fore some themes. Where to put them ? how to name them ? what size ? etc..
you want probably make a new icon theme let's say, for Kde coherence. My request is not a user feature is a developer usability and integration feature to help me and other theme Inkscape. And the way any other software makes themes are through separate different images and other files in a directory. Even winamp/xmms skins are not a *.WSZ file, it's a compressed directory with the images inside (zip compression actually, just rename)
I have made an icon theme for Inkscape (is lost now, I will start again one of this days when all icons could be pngs), and I know what a pain is to pick one icon in the icons.svg file and touch it. Or create one icons.svg from zero.
The icons.svg file is inherited from Sodipodi, what I think it was a "I can therefore I do it"
Again, everyone virtually, in their imagination, thinks it's perfect to have everything in one file, when from a developer point of view, which is this case (users doesn't theme their apps every two months), the real world is different and no application is only one file neither before or after compiling: -Apache, apache modules, what about compiliing webpages inside apache? -Php, php.ini, php extensions, /pear everything is spread off. -Linux Kernel, modules, boot scripts, modules.conf, etc.
Maybe all of you have a moreicons.dll and windowsregistry-point-of-view. As soon as I see a whole new theme implemented for Inkscape, I will believe this new stream I never heard about in opensource develpment: One File to Rule Them All. (Maybe is just this academy awards stuff)
If you want to keep on with the icons.svg idea, it's okay for me, I just want to be able to use subdirectories of themes and to have all icons available in png (some of them can only be done in xpm)
Yours: Nestor Diaz
Another solution for an easy configuration would be to name the icons in the preferences.xml files (and then you could change an icon with another one, just writing its name, but if preferences.xml is very large,(Dozens of icons name), it would be very hard to manage to change things (for document size, etc... the bulia-world-work).
And in svg you can add png icons because images can be embed in svg. they are rendered normaly. ?? I think that doing that point with an svg method is quite clever because the aims of inkscape is svg, so it uses its proper methods and don't rely on something else. Another point is that svg (and xml) are W3C standards, that means that they are not plateform dependants and dont rely on gtk gtk+ gdb or whatever. An svg file will open on every machine (done once run many ???).
<free thinking> I switch to inkscape in the fork with sodipodi because inkscape is going towards full svg compliance (and not svg + specials methods that would break normal svg viewer-designer).
I switch all the windows machine in my office to run with open office, not because it is free, but because it is complete xml.
I do think that trying to use standard open methods is the only way to 'manage' what we will be able to do in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.
</free thinking> Well i am not contributing in coding so.. that is just words, but i think for users that simple configurations methods help in switching to new software, even if they are less 'powerfull'. I prefer to use some software where i understand what is happening, where it is happenning and how i could change if (or why i can't).
well wordy mail but such a good peace of work deserves it.
very nice work every one.
hervé
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=cli ck _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Sorry I missed the whole icons thread, but I've been dealing with family things the past couple weeks... I'm back now though.
Both you and Jon have raised good points.
I think it makes sense to use SVG files as icons in the same way as PNGs or XPMs or whatever other formats we also support for icons.
To my mind though, having a single icons.svg is not a bad thing either, and for right now there are indeed performance reasons to do so. For the immediate future I think the standard icons should ship in icons.svg.
But we should offer a range of options for third-party icon sets.
Probably we should support at least:
* #icon-name-goes-here in an SVG file
* icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} or whatever in a directory
* icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} etc in a .jar file
Also I think we should take better advantage of the standard Gtk icon themeing facilities.
Regardless, right now I have my hands full with the AST code and other projects so I can't implement it myself. If someone wants to come forward with a more detailed design proposal for this (and maybe some patches?) they are strongly encouraged to do so.
-mental
I agree as well. Unfortunately I have been swamped and have not had time to move on anything.
Nestor, I forgot that wanted to create the icon set across the various dtp apps. I agree that a solution in support of that is good.
I will think more about this tomorrow...I'm tired...
Jon
On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 19:09, MenTaLguY wrote:
Sorry I missed the whole icons thread, but I've been dealing with family things the past couple weeks... I'm back now though.
Both you and Jon have raised good points.
I think it makes sense to use SVG files as icons in the same way as PNGs or XPMs or whatever other formats we also support for icons.
To my mind though, having a single icons.svg is not a bad thing either, and for right now there are indeed performance reasons to do so. For the immediate future I think the standard icons should ship in icons.svg.
But we should offer a range of options for third-party icon sets.
Probably we should support at least:
#icon-name-goes-here in an SVG file
icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} or whatever in a directory
icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} etc in a .jar file
Also I think we should take better advantage of the standard Gtk icon themeing facilities.
Regardless, right now I have my hands full with the AST code and other projects so I can't implement it myself. If someone wants to come forward with a more detailed design proposal for this (and maybe some patches?) they are strongly encouraged to do so.
-mental
Thank you very much. I am going to read the freedestop.org icon recomendations or guidelines to see if anything is helpful for the freedtp suite. As soon as I come up with something in clear I will tell you to hear your opinion. Yours: Néstor Díaz
El Sábado, 20 de Marzo de 2004 07:23, Jonathan Phillips escribió:
I agree as well. Unfortunately I have been swamped and have not had time to move on anything.
Nestor, I forgot that wanted to create the icon set across the various dtp apps. I agree that a solution in support of that is good.
I will think more about this tomorrow...I'm tired...
Jon
On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 19:09, MenTaLguY wrote:
Sorry I missed the whole icons thread, but I've been dealing with family things the past couple weeks... I'm back now though.
Both you and Jon have raised good points.
I think it makes sense to use SVG files as icons in the same way as PNGs or XPMs or whatever other formats we also support for icons.
To my mind though, having a single icons.svg is not a bad thing either, and for right now there are indeed performance reasons to do so. For the immediate future I think the standard icons should ship in icons.svg.
But we should offer a range of options for third-party icon sets.
Probably we should support at least:
#icon-name-goes-here in an SVG file
icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} or whatever in a directory
icon-name-goes-here.{svg,png,xpm} etc in a .jar file
Also I think we should take better advantage of the standard Gtk icon themeing facilities.
Regardless, right now I have my hands full with the AST code and other projects so I can't implement it myself. If someone wants to come forward with a more detailed design proposal for this (and maybe some patches?) they are strongly encouraged to do so.
-mental
participants (7)
-
Bob Jamison -
Charles Goodwin -
herve couvelard -
Jonathan Phillips -
MenTaLguY -
nestor diaz -
Peter Linnell