Hi all,
Because people are starting to use LPE and perhaps make tutorials? ;) I'd like to settle on the names for these two effects:
They are now called: Path along path and Pattern along path in SVN.
I think I'll keep one named Pattern along path (in svg now it is called "skeletal"); this one mimics the extension. The original path is some curved path. And it has a path *parameter* that is taken as a pattern and bent along the original path.
The other one, I am thinking about "Bend path". The original path is the fish. And it has a path parameter that defines the curvature / the path along which to bend the fish, i.e. the now called 'bend path' parameter.
Picking a sensible name is important for inkscape's svg. The UI text can be changed, the SVG text not. (because it would break people's files)
Thanks a lot for your input, Johan
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:37:34 +0100, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... wrote:
Hi all,
Because people are starting to use LPE and perhaps make tutorials? ;) I'd like to settle on the names for these two effects:
They are now called: Path along path and Pattern along path in SVN.
I think I'll keep one named Pattern along path (in svg now it is called "skeletal"); this one mimics the extension. The original path is some curved path. And it has a path *parameter* that is taken as a pattern and bent along the original path.
Hm, "Pattern along path" may be confusing, as it doesn't use what SVG calls patterns.
-mental
On 11/5/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
I think I'll keep one named Pattern along path (in svg now it is called "skeletal"); this one mimics the extension. The original path is some curved path. And it has a path *parameter* that is taken as a pattern and bent along the original path.
The other one, I am thinking about "Bend path". The original path is the fish. And it has a path parameter that defines the curvature / the path along which to bend the fish, i.e. the now called 'bend path' parameter.
The extension was called "pattern along path" because it indeed could work with a "pattern", i.e. group, not just single path. So I think we should retain the extension too, for this reason alone. And rename the current "pattern a. p." lpe to "path a.p." because it indeed works on a single path. The other one, agree, let's call "bend path" to avoid confusion.
Another suggestion: "curve stitching" should really be "subpath stitching", and why can't I edit the path that connects subpath - not implemented yet?
-----Original Message----- From: bulia byak [mailto:buliabyak@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 0:23 To: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan) Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
On 11/5/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
I think I'll keep one named Pattern along path (in svg now it is called "skeletal"); this one mimics the extension. The
original path
is some curved path. And it has a path *parameter* that is
taken as a
pattern and bent along the original path.
The other one, I am thinking about "Bend path". The
original path is
the fish. And it has a path parameter that defines the
curvature / the
path along which to bend the fish, i.e. the now called
'bend path' parameter.
The extension was called "pattern along path" because it indeed could work with a "pattern", i.e. group, not just single path. So I think we should retain the extension too, for this reason alone. And rename the current "pattern a. p." lpe to "path a.p." because it indeed works on a single path.
Path along path is confusing for me aswell :( sorry. The use of the current pattern along path is to put multiple paths as if they are a pattern along the path onto which the effect is applied. Although it is a matter of taste also; whatever one finds easiest to do, but it has some implications. Groups will never be bend around corners with pattern along path for example. Because then we need group parameters. Pattern along path bends a *parameter* along the original path. 'bend path' bends the original path along a parameter. Giving a group as 'original path' is not a big problem (just repeat it for each path in the group), giving a group as parameter is.
Uff I need to explain this on the wiki i guess. I've explained it too many times :(
To summarize: people should use 'bend path' to bend paths along a path. Not pattern along path. :-)
The other one, agree, let's call "bend path" to avoid confusion.
Will do :)
Another suggestion: "curve stitching" should really be "subpath stitching", and why can't I edit the path that connects subpath - not implemented yet?
Will change the name. Path parameter editing is independent of effects, so it is implemented :) The problem is that it is not possible (yet?) to on-canvas edit the default setting. You have to paste a path onto it first.
Thanks for the feedback, Johan
On 11/5/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
Path along path is confusing for me aswell :( sorry. The use of the current pattern along path is to put multiple paths as if they are a pattern along the path onto which the effect is applied. Although it is a matter of taste also; whatever one finds easiest to do, but it has some implications. Groups will never be bend around corners with pattern along path for example. Because then we need group parameters. Pattern along path bends a *parameter* along the original path. 'bend path' bends the original path along a parameter. Giving a group as 'original path' is not a big problem (just repeat it for each path in the group), giving a group as parameter is.
OK, let it be pattern, though it's really just another way of looking at it, and I'm not sure which will be the best for user...
Another suggestion: "curve stitching" should really be "subpath stitching", and why can't I edit the path that connects subpath - not implemented yet?
Will change the name. Path parameter editing is independent of effects, so it is implemented :) The problem is that it is not possible (yet?) to on-canvas edit the default setting. You have to paste a path onto it first.
OK, then it needs to be editable at once, just as the bend path is editable at once without pasting.
Instead of pattern along path why not call it Bend Object or Object along Path if we want to be verbose. It is less confusing and genric enough to encapulate groups, shapes, patterns, etc..
Bend Path and Bend Object seem to be good names for the effects to me.
Joshua L. Blocher verbalshadow
On 11/6/07, bulia byak <buliabyak@...400...> wrote:
On 11/5/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
Path along path is confusing for me aswell :( sorry. The use of the current pattern along path is to put multiple paths as if they are a pattern along the path onto which the effect is applied. Although it is a matter of taste also; whatever one finds easiest to do, but it has some implications. Groups will never be bend around corners with pattern along path for example. Because then we need group parameters. Pattern along path bends a *parameter* along the original path. 'bend path' bends the original path along a parameter. Giving a group as 'original path' is not a big problem (just repeat it for each path in the group), giving a group as parameter is.
OK, let it be pattern, though it's really just another way of looking at it, and I'm not sure which will be the best for user...
Another suggestion: "curve stitching" should really be "subpath stitching", and why can't I edit the path that connects subpath - not implemented yet?
Will change the name. Path parameter editing is independent of effects, so it is implemented :) The problem is that it is not possible (yet?) to on-canvas edit the default setting. You have to paste a path onto it first.
OK, then it needs to be editable at once, just as the bend path is editable at once without pasting.
-- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 2:07 To: bulia byak Cc: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan); inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
Instead of pattern along path why not call it Bend Object or Object along Path if we want to be verbose. It is less confusing and genric enough to encapulate groups, shapes, patterns, etc..
Bend Path and Bend Object seem to be good names for the effects to me.
I'm afraid again I've been unclear. The current 'pattern along path' can only bend single paths along paths. The current 'Bend path' can (in principle without too much effort) bend objects.
So perhaps we should name the 'Bend path' effect just 'Bend' ?
Please note that the naming and user understanding is probably needed for stacking. When effects are stacked, 'pattern along path' cannot bend the output of the effect before it. It uses that output as 'skeletal strokes'. Perhaps I should rename the p.a.p. effect to skeletal strokes. You draw some paths, and then when you want to 'stroke' those paths with something complicated, you should use p.a.p. When you want to bend the paths you have drawn, you should use 'bend path'. Or just 'bend'. In a stack, 'bend' *does* bend the output of the effect before it.
Effect #1 proposed names: 'pattern along path' 'skeletal strokes' 'stroke with path' <= my choice at this moment...
Effect #2 proposed names: 'path along path' 'bend path' 'bend object' 'bend' <= my choice at this moment
'subcurve stitching' => rename to 'stitch subcurves'
I am trying to end up with somewhat of a 'rule' for naming effects. The above choices reflect the following useage: Draw 2 subpaths and 'stitch [the result's] subcurves'. Then 'stroke [the result] with path'. And then 'bend [the result]'. A user can think: What would I like to do? I'd like to ('bend','stroke','stitch') my shape ('', 'with path', 'subcurves'). :-) Probably too much of idealistic approach?
Cheers, Johan
On 11/6/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 2:07 To: bulia byak Cc: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan); inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
Instead of pattern along path why not call it Bend Object or Object along Path if we want to be verbose. It is less confusing and genric enough to encapulate groups, shapes, patterns, etc..
Bend Path and Bend Object seem to be good names for the effects to me.
I'm afraid again I've been unclear. The current 'pattern along path' can only bend single paths along paths. The current 'Bend path' can (in principle without too much effort) bend objects.
It'd not you explaining it's me not understanding. I think i have it straight pattern along path is one path bent to one path and path along path bends one object along one path Correct me if i'm wrong we can talk about it on jabber today or tomorrow.
I think a lot of reference problem i'm having is p.a.p. in text could be either one.
So perhaps we should name the 'Bend path' effect just 'Bend' ?
Please note that the naming and user understanding is probably needed for stacking. When effects are stacked, 'pattern along path' cannot bend the output of the effect before it. It uses that output as 'skeletal strokes'. Perhaps I should rename the p.a.p. effect to skeletal strokes. You draw some paths, and then when
Based on My above understanding (yes I need to play with it in Inkscape some more) by one path : one path is not the equalivent of of Skeletal Strokes one object : one path is closer (but still miss some of the functionality, I'm not blaming anyone). I think we should avoid using skeletal strokes until we have the full functionality. Cause if anyone has used Expression3 they are going to expect alot out of that function. I know I will cause it is an absolutely amazing tool IMO.( For those who have not played with Expression3, think calligraphy tool with the abilty to use any object as it's "brush" and it bends to the path.)
you want to 'stroke' those paths with something complicated, you
should use p.a.p. When you want to bend the paths you have drawn, you should use 'bend path'. Or just 'bend'. In a stack, 'bend' *does* bend the output of the effect before it.
Effect #1 proposed names: 'pattern along path' 'skeletal strokes' 'stroke with path' <= my choice at this moment...
I
Effect #2 proposed names: 'path along path' 'bend path' 'bend object' 'bend' <= my choice at this moment
Overall I think that if you could merge the two effects it would greatly reduce the confusion and just call it bend. If that not possible calling whichever one can bend complex objects Bend Object and the other Bend Path would be best.
'subcurve stitching' => rename to 'stitch subcurves'
I am trying to end up with somewhat of a 'rule' for naming effects. The above choices reflect the following useage: Draw 2 subpaths and 'stitch [the result's] subcurves'. Then 'stroke [the result] with path'. And then 'bend [the result]'. A user can think: What would I like to do? I'd like to ('bend','stroke','stitch') my shape ('', 'with path', 'subcurves'). :-) Probably too much of idealistic approach?
I need to play with stitching.
Cheers, Johan
Have good day, Joshua L. Blocher verbalshadow
Hi Joshua,
Did you play with the LPE's? What is missing from the LPE's that could immitate skeletal strokes?
What about the LPE names? Please note again that the difference between Path along Path and Pattern along Path is *not* that one can bend complex objects and the other can't.
Thanks! Johan
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 19:59 To: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan) Cc: buliabyak@...400...; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
On 11/6/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 2:07 To: bulia byak Cc: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan); inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
Instead of pattern along path why not call it Bend Object
or Object
along Path if we want to be verbose. It is less confusing
and genric
enough to encapulate groups, shapes, patterns, etc..
Bend Path and Bend Object seem to be good names for the
effects to me.
I'm afraid again I've been unclear. The current 'pattern
along path' can only bend single paths along paths. The current 'Bend path' can (in principle without too much effort) bend objects.
It'd not you explaining it's me not understanding. I think i have it straight pattern along path is one path bent to one path and path along path bends one object along one path Correct me if i'm wrong we can talk about it on jabber today or tomorrow.
I think a lot of reference problem i'm having is p.a.p. in text could be either one.
So perhaps we should name the 'Bend path' effect just 'Bend' ?
Please note that the naming and user understanding is
probably needed
for stacking. When effects are stacked, 'pattern along path' cannot bend the output of the effect before it. It uses that output as 'skeletal strokes'. Perhaps I should rename the p.a.p. effect to skeletal strokes. You draw some paths, and then when
Based on My above understanding (yes I need to play with it in Inkscape some more) by one path : one path is not the equalivent of of Skeletal Strokes one object : one path is closer (but still miss some of the functionality, I'm not blaming anyone). I think we should avoid using skeletal strokes until we have the full functionality. Cause if anyone has used Expression3 they are going to expect alot out of that function. I know I will cause it is an absolutely amazing tool IMO.( For those who have not played with Expression3, think calligraphy tool with the abilty to use any object as it's "brush" and it bends to the path.)
you want to 'stroke' those paths with something complicated, you
should use p.a.p. When you want to bend the paths you have drawn, you should use 'bend path'. Or just 'bend'. In a stack, 'bend' *does* bend the output of the effect before it.
Effect #1 proposed names: 'pattern along path' 'skeletal strokes' 'stroke with path' <= my choice at this moment...
I
Effect #2 proposed names: 'path along path' 'bend path' 'bend object' 'bend' <= my choice at this moment
Overall I think that if you could merge the two effects it would greatly reduce the confusion and just call it bend. If that not possible calling whichever one can bend complex objects Bend Object and the other Bend Path would be best.
'subcurve stitching' => rename to 'stitch subcurves'
I am trying to end up with somewhat of a 'rule' for naming effects. The above choices reflect the following useage: Draw 2 subpaths and 'stitch [the result's] subcurves'. Then 'stroke [the result] with path'. And then 'bend [the result]'. A user can think:
What would I
like to do? I'd like to ('bend','stroke','stitch') my shape ('', 'with path',
'subcurves'). :-) Probably too much of idealistic approach?
I need to play with stitching.
Cheers, Johan
Have good day, Joshua L. Blocher verbalshadow
Johan,
I have been very busy here lately, but toworrow since it thanksgiving i should have a little time. I will play with then and let you know.
Joshua L. Blocher verbalshadow
On 11/21/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
Hi Joshua,
Did you play with the LPE's? What is missing from the LPE's that could immitate skeletal strokes?
What about the LPE names? Please note again that the difference between Path along Path and Pattern along Path is *not* that one can bend complex objects and the other can't.
Thanks! Johan
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 19:59 To: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan) Cc: buliabyak@...400...; inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
On 11/6/07, J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... <J.B.C.Engelen@...1578...> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Blocher [mailto:verbalshadow@...400...] Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2007 2:07 To: bulia byak Cc: Engelen, J.B.C. (Johan); inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Names of LPEs
Instead of pattern along path why not call it Bend Object
or Object
along Path if we want to be verbose. It is less confusing
and genric
enough to encapulate groups, shapes, patterns, etc..
Bend Path and Bend Object seem to be good names for the
effects to me.
I'm afraid again I've been unclear. The current 'pattern
along path' can only bend single paths along paths. The current 'Bend path' can (in principle without too much effort) bend objects.
It'd not you explaining it's me not understanding. I think i have it straight pattern along path is one path bent to one path and path along path bends one object along one path Correct me if i'm wrong we can talk about it on jabber today or tomorrow.
I think a lot of reference problem i'm having is p.a.p. in text could be either one.
So perhaps we should name the 'Bend path' effect just 'Bend' ?
Please note that the naming and user understanding is
probably needed
for stacking. When effects are stacked, 'pattern along path' cannot bend the output of the effect before it. It uses that output as 'skeletal strokes'. Perhaps I should rename the p.a.p. effect to skeletal strokes. You draw some paths, and then when
Based on My above understanding (yes I need to play with it in Inkscape some more) by one path : one path is not the equalivent of of Skeletal Strokes one object : one path is closer (but still miss some of the functionality, I'm not blaming anyone). I think we should avoid using skeletal strokes until we have the full functionality. Cause if anyone has used Expression3 they are going to expect alot out of that function. I know I will cause it is an absolutely amazing tool IMO.( For those who have not played with Expression3, think calligraphy tool with the abilty to use any object as it's "brush" and it bends to the path.)
you want to 'stroke' those paths with something complicated, you
should use p.a.p. When you want to bend the paths you have drawn, you should use 'bend path'. Or just 'bend'. In a stack, 'bend' *does* bend the output of the effect before it.
Effect #1 proposed names: 'pattern along path' 'skeletal strokes' 'stroke with path' <= my choice at this moment...
I
Effect #2 proposed names: 'path along path' 'bend path' 'bend object' 'bend' <= my choice at this moment
Overall I think that if you could merge the two effects it would greatly reduce the confusion and just call it bend. If that not possible calling whichever one can bend complex objects Bend Object and the other Bend Path would be best.
'subcurve stitching' => rename to 'stitch subcurves'
I am trying to end up with somewhat of a 'rule' for naming effects. The above choices reflect the following useage: Draw 2 subpaths and 'stitch [the result's] subcurves'. Then 'stroke [the result] with path'. And then 'bend [the result]'. A user can think:
What would I
like to do? I'd like to ('bend','stroke','stitch') my shape ('', 'with path',
'subcurves'). :-) Probably too much of idealistic approach?
I need to play with stitching.
Cheers, Johan
Have good day, Joshua L. Blocher verbalshadow
Bulia wrote:
Another suggestion: "curve stitching" should really be "subpath stitching", and why can't I edit the path that connects subpath - not implemented yet?
Will change the name. Path parameter editing is independent of effects, so it is
implemented
:) The problem is that it is not possible (yet?) to on-canvas edit the default setting. You have to paste a path onto it first.
OK, then it needs to be editable at once, just as the bend path is editable at once without pasting.
I know.
Please note that path parameter editing is not so easy as it might look. The big question is: where to put the path parameter on-canvas. Now, when an object is moved, the path parameter stays at the same canvas location.
Developers please don't be shy to work on LPE code. It can use a lot more hands than it has now!
-Johan
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