Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
One thing I can think of is to try to follow the Tango naming. Some icons might already be covered in their names for their base plus art naming, but some may be missing.
We don't yet use those, but we are wanting to switch to supporting them in at least a nice fall-back manner. Then one could have a full Tango art set installed and Inkscape would just start to use it.
Great work. Especialy the zoom tools. But I think that main tools icons are not so Tangoish. They're missing a lighter "inner" outline (pretty visible on the green import/export arrows). Also can you post a download link?
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
Hi Ronan! Great to see someone is working on this! You might want to add a inner stroke to some of the objects, as the guidelines suggests [1], in order for the icons to work on top of any background color [2]. Some time ago, Ertz did some rough tangofication of Inkscape that has been circling around on IRC, perhaps you can pick some of the cherries from that set [3] Please pop by #tango on freenode if you need any more help regarding the styleguides and stuff, and both me, jimmac and a bunch of the other dudes also hang out in #inkscape.
1. http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Defining_Tango_Styl... 2. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/outline-example.png 3. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/icons.svg
- Andreas
Sorry for the for the late reply but I was busy being useful in other ways.
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 02:58:31 +0200 From: Ronan Zeegers <inkscape@...1494...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Tango style icons
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
Tango has eyecandy but the really important thing is the underlying icon specification. I really hope that work could happen at the same time as any switch to another icon set, we've had one switch already.
Now to the icons themselves. Consistency is good but you have made the retangle, star, and circle, all the same colour. I understand some people prefer all their icons to be almost monochrome (see the lastest version of Krita Paint in KOffice) but this was an intentional difference in Inkscape which Sodipodi didn't have and as far as I know there is nothing in Tango which should prevent you from having this differentiation.
There are larger problems with the icons I'm not sure any theme can solve, and thank you for bringing this to my attention to this specific taks and making me rethink it and reapply what I have learned. I would be very interested to print out the icons only and ask users to write down what they think the icon represents. A picture may be worth a thousand words but sometimes a word or two is all your really need. (Comic books provide both pictures and words, even better!) Only the most frequently used items should need toolbar icons, I wonder if both import/export bitmap are really all that frequent. More to the point if a user feels the need to hit those buttons over and over there has to be a better overall process for batch exporting bitmaps but I'm repeating myself on this topic. I can sort of understand the document properties (metadata) having toolbar icon but if the preferences need to be changed so often as to require a toolbar icon then the preferences are badly broken ("snap to grid" probably and a few others probably need to be moved back into the menus, was a nice idea but it didn't really work. Using the menu structure from Adobe/Macromedia might serve as a useful baseline if anyone is interested in trying to figure it out.)
Another issue with the logic of the icon metaphors - again not your fault - is that font family is represented with a big T and the text tool is represented with a big A. An icon or graphic to show _text_ kinda sucks in principle but it practice is it sometimes unavoidable. Using the letter T for text makes sense in English but not necessarily other languages, which is why the letter A is used instead. In rare cases applications implement a whole load of infrastructure to allow internationalisable icons for things like (B)old, (I)talic, (U)nderline. Abiword is one such application that has or at least had this infrastructure but once Abiword switched to the Gnome 2 icons it just used the letter A.
To answer another question (and if I recall correctly) the 24x24 icon size is a Tango thing, to try and bring Gnome closer in line with other platforms and avoid squishing and rescaling effects.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Hello Alan,
Thanx for answering. Until now, I didn't get much feedbacks about my work.
Tango has eyecandy but the really important thing is the underlying icon specification. I really hope that work could happen at the same time as any switch to another icon set, we've had one switch already.
Now to the icons themselves. Consistency is good but you have made the retangle, star, and circle, all the same colour. I understand some people prefer all their icons to be almost monochrome (see the lastest version of Krita Paint in KOffice) but this was an intentional difference in Inkscape which Sodipodi didn't have and as far as I know there is nothing in Tango which should prevent you from having this differentiation.
My main concern with the actual icons set is the amount of details. I think that the current icons want to say to much about what they are and what they do. For me, it's the same problem with the colors of the primitives shapes. Those icons are more about shape, not colors. Colors for primitive shapes icons are not helping to understand what they are about: to create primitves shapes.
Usually, a professionnal image processing program (like photoshop or illustrator) use only grey icons to help to focus on the work (and to prevent colors interactions between images and icons). It would be a nice thing to have an "all grey switch" (desaturate the icons) has a preference option to the one how want to have the "professional attitude" ;)
The Tango project use white color for all the primitives shapes: http://tango.freedesktop.org/ArtLibreSet I like best a grey/blue color... White is to much about iPod right now :)
To avoid to much icon style switch, I will double check the Tango's guidelines! promise!
Only the most frequently used items should need toolbar icons, I wonder if both import/export bitmap are really all that frequent. More to the point if a user feels the need to hit those buttons over and over there has to be a better overall process for batch exporting bitmaps but I'm repeating myself on this topic. I can sort of understand the document properties (metadata) having toolbar icon but if the preferences need to be changed so often as to require a toolbar icon then the preferences are badly broken ("snap to grid" probably and a few others probably need to be moved back into the menus, was a nice idea but it didn't really work. Using the menu structure from Adobe/Macromedia might serve as a useful baseline if anyone is interested in trying to figure it out.)
I have the same opinon! Libegg could be THE solution. Customisable toolbars... The dream :) Should be in Inkscape 0.46: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap
Another issue with the logic of the icon metaphors - again not your fault
- is that font family is represented with a big T and the text tool is
represented with a big A. An icon or graphic to show _text_ kinda sucks in principle but it practice is it sometimes unavoidable. Using the letter T for text makes sense in English but not necessarily other languages, which is why the letter A is used instead. In rare cases applications implement a whole load of infrastructure to allow internationalisable icons for things like (B)old, (I)talic, (U)nderline. Abiword is one such application that has or at least had this infrastructure but once Abiword switched to the Gnome 2 icons it just used the letter A.
I don't really know what to do with the T icon... An blod italic A? Anyway, I think it should be entierly removed (the icon and the windows options too)! Almost all the text style options are in the Text Tool options toolbar now (except the "Line spacing")
To answer another question (and if I recall correctly) the 24x24 icon size is a Tango thing, to try and bring Gnome closer in line with other platforms and avoid squishing and rescaling effects.
I have made a bug submit about this one. 22x22 is the new default size for small icons (also used in KDE): http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=D... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hello Ronan,
the first time I really carefully looked at the icons ... I do not want to count the beans... The rotate icons looks like rotating _and_ flipping it is also that way in the current set but I feel it is mathematical not correct.
HTH,
Adib.
jEsuSdA 8) schrieb:
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=D... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=D... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Hello Ronan,
the first time I really carefully looked at the icons ... I do not want to count the beans... The rotate icons looks like rotating _and_ flipping it is also that way in the current set but I feel it is mathematical not correct.
HTH,
Adib.
Like popolon, I don't see where is the flip problem?!?
One thing I noticed is the Node Editor icon, which seems to be the previous "symmetric node" icon. Is this just a placeholder for the mockup? It has no indication of editing. Just IMVHO. :)
bob
Bob Jamison wrote:
One thing I noticed is the Node Editor icon, which seems to be the previous "symmetric node" icon. Is this just a placeholder for the mockup? It has no indication of editing. Just IMVHO. :)
The indications for editing are the handles ;) You can find the same concept in Xaraxtreme.
I didn't like the current solution... The arrow is a bit strange and don't really look like a classical arrow. And I think it has the same problem has others icons in Inkscape: to many elements to describe an action.
I had the choice between 2 solutions: 1. the white arrow. I think it have been introduced by Adobe and it is now well know in computer users mind has "node/bezier editing". 2. something closer to what bezier editing looks like: a curve with 2 handles.
I chose the second solution. But it's clear that I have to change the "symmetric node" icon now...
On 10/13/06, Ronan Zeegers <inkscape@...1494...> wrote:
I had the choice between 2 solutions:
- the white arrow. I think it have been introduced by Adobe and it is
now well know in computer users mind has "node/bezier editing".
I don't like this idea. Its being the Adobe way does not negate the fact that it's terribly unintuitive.
bulia byak wrote:
On 10/13/06, Ronan Zeegers <inkscape@...1494...> wrote:
I had the choice between 2 solutions:
- the white arrow. I think it have been introduced by Adobe and it is
now well know in computer users mind has "node/bezier editing".
I don't like this idea. Its being the Adobe way does not negate the fact that it's terribly unintuitive.
I was not for this solution either but now, I just remember that this Tool is not only about bezier editing... it's also about rounded corner and other sub-object editing stuffs. I can draw a straight line with a square above. Does someone have a better idea?
Ronan
I was not for this solution either but now, I just remember that this Tool is not only about bezier editing... it's also about rounded corner and other sub-object editing stuffs. I can draw a straight line with a square above. Does someone have a better idea?
Ronan
Corel Draw has a good one IMO. See the attached PNG file. Also, rounding corners is more an attribute of the rectangle tool than of the node editor tool, even if the rounding is possible with the editor tool too. I think that the node tool icon has to represent the shape of the tool's pointer + the function it does. Again, corel's icon is very intuitive, explicit and simple.
Just my 2 cents... ;) Molumen
momo wrote:
I was not for this solution either but now, I just remember that this Tool is not only about bezier editing... it's also about rounded corner and other sub-object editing stuffs. I can draw a straight line with a square above. Does someone have a better idea?
Ronan
Corel Draw has a good one IMO. See the attached PNG file. Also, rounding corners is more an attribute of the rectangle tool than of the node editor tool, even if the rounding is possible with the editor tool too. I think that the node tool icon has to represent the shape of the tool's pointer + the function it does. Again, corel's icon is very intuitive, explicit and simple.
For the record, Tango-fied or not, I personally like our current icons quite a bit.
Our current "editor" icon does represent the function of the tool well as-is (in my opinion). And yes rounding corners is more of a function of the rectangle tool... but what about editing Offsets and Patterns? It is the only tool that edits them that I'm aware of.
-Josh
jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
As I mentioned to Ronan earlier on IRC today, as long as no cc-by-sa assets are used, the (current) licensing issues are no problem. The icons in tango-art-libre is gpl, and so is gnome-icon-theme, so stuff based on that stuff isn't a problem. - Andreas
About this, I want to say than the gradient tool is not really clear in actual icon set. I believe that's because there is not enough contrast. User don't understand it.
Ronan, in your tango iconset, this is more confusing because gradient nodes do not follow gradient position.
About rotating icons, they are not flipped, only rotated, in original like in tango version everything is ok.
Andreas Nilsson wrote:
jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hello,
I'm working on a more tango like icons style for inkscape. The screenshot is here: http://www.ronanzeegers.com/inkscape/inkscape-tangoished-v0.5.png
And feedbacks are welcome! ;)
Ronan Zeegers
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
As I mentioned to Ronan earlier on IRC today, as long as no cc-by-sa assets are used, the (current) licensing issues are no problem. The icons in tango-art-libre is gpl, and so is gnome-icon-theme, so stuff based on that stuff isn't a problem.
- Andreas
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=D... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Popolon:
About this, I want to say than the gradient tool is not really clear in actual icon set. I believe that's because there is not enough contrast. User don't understand it.
Ronan, in your tango iconset, this is more confusing because gradient nodes do not follow gradient position.
Yep, right! I'll fix this for the release.
jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
Thx jEsuSdA!
I don't think it's a big deal... It just means a bit more works and that I have to say goodbye to the current magnifying glass :( But the good news is that I can keep the pencil icon. Thanx to Andreas for the information!
Ronan.
Ronan Zeegers wrote:
jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
First at all: great work dude!
I like tango icons and i think your work is so good and pretty.
The only thing wrong with this project is that tango icon library is licenced CC-by-share alike and this is not GPL compatible :( I ask tango icon project people about this time ago and it appears not possible a licence change in the future :(
Tango is a cool and very good project, but the CC license makes no possible to include this work in any gpl project by default. :(
Thx jEsuSdA!
I don't think it's a big deal... It just means a bit more works and that I have to say goodbye to the current magnifying glass :( But the good news is that I can keep the pencil icon. Thanx to Andreas for the information!
Just do a bit of cut and paste from this one [1], it's the same magnifying glass that's used in both git and gimp. 1. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/icons.svg - Andreas
participants (12)
-
Adib Taraben -
Alan Horkan -
Andreas Nilsson -
Bob Jamison -
bulia byak -
graffoo -
jEsuSdA 8) -
Jon A. Cruz -
Joshua A. Andler -
momo -
Popolon -
Ronan Zeegers