Hi fellow developers, there is one "patch" in the tracker[1] I would like to know if it can be included in upcoming 0.45 version. It is tangoified icon by Andreas Nilsson for Inkscape, based on a cleaned version of the official logo.
The reworked icon looks really nice imho and it would be good to have it in. It can make Inkscape fit the currently redrawn gnome-icon-theme (and not only this one, but it fits well among other icons on other desktops like MS Windows or MacOS X). Besides the good look, I see another advantage also that it can be more easily recognisable on light as well as on dark backgrounds then the actual one.
So, what do you think?
Sincerely Josef Vybíral a.k.a. cornelius
[1] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1590179&gro...
Josef 'cornelius' Vybíral wrote:
Hi fellow developers, there is one "patch" in the tracker[1] I would like to know if it can be included in upcoming 0.45 version. It is tangoified icon by Andreas Nilsson for Inkscape, based on a cleaned version of the official logo.
The reworked icon looks really nice imho and it would be good to have it in. It can make Inkscape fit the currently redrawn gnome-icon-theme (and not only this one, but it fits well among other icons on other desktops like MS Windows or MacOS X). Besides the good look, I see another advantage also that it can be more easily recognisable on light as well as on dark backgrounds then the actual one.
So, what do you think?
There was a different Tangoified version of the Inkscape icon submitted to the Tango mailing list yesterday. It didn't include the brush, which is not part of our branding and should not be part of our package.
However, Tango can provide a Tango-flavour icon for Inkscape anyway so we don't need to include it ourselves. Doing so would make it look out-of-place on KDE, Mac or Windows, none of which support freedesktop.org icon themes and whose default styles are much closer to our current icon.
We could improve the appearance of the current Inkscape icon on dark backgrounds with a bit of soft white glow.
Dan
Hello,
Daniel Pope píše v St 17. 01. 2007 v 08:39 +0000:
Josef 'cornelius' Vybíral wrote:
Hi fellow developers, there is one "patch" in the tracker[1] I would like to know if it can be included in upcoming 0.45 version. It is tangoified icon by Andreas Nilsson for Inkscape, based on a cleaned version of the official logo.
The reworked icon looks really nice imho and it would be good to have it in. It can make Inkscape fit the currently redrawn gnome-icon-theme (and not only this one, but it fits well among other icons on other desktops like MS Windows or MacOS X). Besides the good look, I see another advantage also that it can be more easily recognisable on light as well as on dark backgrounds then the actual one.
So, what do you think?
There was a different Tangoified version of the Inkscape icon submitted to the Tango mailing list yesterday.
I am aware of that icon. The bad about that icon is that its quality cannot be compared to the one in the tracker which looks imho much better.
It didn't include the brush, which is not part of our branding and should not be part of our package.
I think this is not a problem. We have sources for the icon included in the package so we can easily remove the brush and re-render it. If required we can ask the author of the icon if he approves that change.
However, Tango can provide a Tango-flavour icon for Inkscape anyway so we don't need to include it ourselves. Doing so would make it look out-of-place on KDE, Mac or Windows, none of which support freedesktop.org icon themes and whose default styles are much closer to our current icon.
On the contrary, Tango project and tango style guidelines are here to make different desktops look unified and help icons fit default desktop icon themes well. (btw iirc KDE is going to follow the tango icon naming specs and follows also other standards by freedesktop.org).
We could improve the appearance of the current Inkscape icon on dark backgrounds with a bit of soft white glow.
The white glow is not imo the way to go here. It does not make enough contrast like the white inner stroke does. Also the shape is not well defined by this way. Feel free to try it, it looks odd on any desktop you mention.
Sincerely Josef Vybíral a.k.a. cornelius
Josef Vybiral wrote:
Hello,
Daniel Pope píše v St 17. 01. 2007 v 08:39 +0000:
Josef 'cornelius' Vybíral wrote:
Hi fellow developers, there is one "patch" in the tracker[1] I would like to know if it can be included in upcoming 0.45 version. It is tangoified icon by Andreas Nilsson for Inkscape, based on a cleaned version of the official logo.
The reworked icon looks really nice imho and it would be good to have it in. It can make Inkscape fit the currently redrawn gnome-icon-theme (and not only this one, but it fits well among other icons on other desktops like MS Windows or MacOS X). Besides the good look, I see another advantage also that it can be more easily recognisable on light as well as on dark backgrounds then the actual one.
So, what do you think?
However, Tango can provide a Tango-flavour icon for Inkscape anyway so we don't need to include it ourselves. Doing so would make it look out-of-place on KDE, Mac or Windows, none of which support freedesktop.org icon themes and whose default styles are much closer to our current icon.
Hi there! Do you mean Inkscape shouldn't provide a application icon at all? The current icon looks out of place on OSX, Windows, KDE _and_ GNOME. :) It looks ok on the kde-panel to me [1]. I'll see what I can do about the OSX-launcher, as the launchers[2] differ in style a bit compared to their in-app-graphics [3].
1. http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/kpanel-inkscape.png 2. http://blog.philkern.de/uploads/pearpc_tiger_about.png 3. http://www.professional.co.at/Apple/Bilder/06/iwork06/06pages_screen.jpg - Andreas
Josef Vybiral wrote:
There was a different Tangoified version of the Inkscape icon submitted to the Tango mailing list yesterday.
I am aware of that icon. The bad about that icon is that its quality cannot be compared to the one in the tracker which looks imho much better.
share/clipart/inkscape.icon.svg is much higher quality than either. inkscape.ico is a nice shiny version of the same, but I can't see an SVG source for that.
It didn't include the brush, which is not part of our branding and should not be part of our package.
I think this is not a problem. We have sources for the icon included in the package so we can easily remove the brush and re-render it. If required we can ask the author of the icon if he approves that change.
No need: it's licensed as GPL.
However, Tango can provide a Tango-flavour icon for Inkscape anyway so we don't need to include it ourselves. Doing so would make it look out-of-place on KDE, Mac or Windows, none of which support freedesktop.org icon themes and whose default styles are much closer to our current icon.
On the contrary, Tango project and tango style guidelines are here to make different desktops look unified and help icons fit default desktop icon themes well. (btw iirc KDE is going to follow the tango icon naming specs and follows also other standards by freedesktop.org).
The icon naming specs are here to make different desktops look unified. The Tango icon theme is just an implementation. KDE is intending to implement the Tango naming specs, but this won't be for a while yet, and KDE's default theme will be Oxygen[1] anyway. Vista, XP and Mac have their own icon styles.
The situation appears to be:
- Vista, Mac OS X and Oxygen are more photo-realistic. - XP and Crystal are colourful and shiny. - Tango and earlier Windows are flatter with contrasting outlines.
- On Linux icons reflect icon themes.
I can't see that changing the provided icon helps much on Linux and might be a backwards step on other platforms. But I can't see how an ideal solution might work. Should we maintain icons compatible with all the icon styles I mentioned?
We could improve the appearance of the current Inkscape icon on dark backgrounds with a bit of soft white glow.
The white glow is not imo the way to go here. It does not make enough contrast like the white inner stroke does. Also the shape is not well defined by this way. Feel free to try it, it looks odd on any desktop you mention.
Hmm. Perhaps. But I find the inner strokes odd. They aren't consistent with the Tango Style guidelines[2] anyway:
"This stroke is very subtle and may not be aparent on some matte objects."
Dan
[1] http://www.oxygen-icons.org/ [2] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
Daniel Pope píše v St 17. 01. 2007 v 11:07 +0000:
Josef Vybiral wrote:
There was a different Tangoified version of the Inkscape icon submitted to the Tango mailing list yesterday.
I am aware of that icon. The bad about that icon is that its quality cannot be compared to the one in the tracker which looks imho much better.
share/clipart/inkscape.icon.svg is much higher quality than either.
Where is this file? I do not have it in my SVN checkout. I have /share/clipart/inkscape.logo.svg only and it is a logo, not an icon. There is no inkscape.svg icon in size of 48x48 or 32x32 or smaller sizes.
inkscape.ico is a nice shiny version of the same, but I can't see an SVG source for that.
I don't know if I am looking to different files, but none of those .ico files in the root directory of SVN checkout have the same quality like the logo you are reffering to.
It didn't include the brush, which is not part of our branding and should not be part of our package.
I think this is not a problem. We have sources for the icon included in the package so we can easily remove the brush and re-render it. If required we can ask the author of the icon if he approves that change.
No need: it's licensed as GPL.
Already done, updated package of icons is attached to the patch. Also there were some other updates, Andreas tweaked the 22x22 a bit and I tweaked 16x16 to give it better shape.
However, Tango can provide a Tango-flavour icon for Inkscape anyway so we don't need to include it ourselves. Doing so would make it look out-of-place on KDE, Mac or Windows, none of which support freedesktop.org icon themes and whose default styles are much closer to our current icon.
On the contrary, Tango project and tango style guidelines are here to make different desktops look unified and help icons fit default desktop icon themes well. (btw iirc KDE is going to follow the tango icon naming specs and follows also other standards by freedesktop.org).
The icon naming specs are here to make different desktops look unified. The Tango icon theme is just an implementation.
I didn't say anything else. But as you said, Tango is just an implementation of icon naming specifications. None application can have got its own icon in the tango-icon-theme package. Only applications themselves should ship their icons.
KDE is intending to implement the Tango naming specs, but this won't be for a while yet, and KDE's default theme will be Oxygen[1] anyway. Vista, XP and Mac have their own icon styles.
The situation appears to be:
- Vista, Mac OS X and Oxygen are more photo-realistic.
Yes, but these icons are intended to be displayed on high resolution displays and/or in bigger sizes. And to be honest, I do not see how we could make Inkscape's icon photo-realistic :)
- XP and Crystal are colourful and shiny.
Yes they are. To make icons fit these "themes" was also one of reasons why the example implementation of tango uses the palette that it uses; IIRC.
Tango and earlier Windows are flatter with contrasting outlines.
On Linux icons reflect icon themes.
I can't see that changing the provided icon helps much on Linux and might be a backwards step on other platforms.
As Andreas showed in his post to this thread, the proposed icon fits nicely even KDE's toolbar with Crystal icons so I do not think that it is a step backward. It would perhaps only if user used theme like Gant or some other cartoon-like styled themes.
But I can't see how an ideal solution might work. Should we maintain icons compatible with all the icon styles I mentioned?
Well, that would probably be most ideal solution. Or we can find a compromise between tango and other styles like oxygen, xp/vista etc..., to make icon look more neutral.
We could improve the appearance of the current Inkscape icon on dark backgrounds with a bit of soft white glow.
The white glow is not imo the way to go here. It does not make enough contrast like the white inner stroke does. Also the shape is not well defined by this way. Feel free to try it, it looks odd on any desktop you mention.
Hmm. Perhaps. But I find the inner strokes odd. They aren't consistent with the Tango Style guidelines[2] anyway:
"This stroke is very subtle and may not be aparent on some matte objects."
I think that the icon is correct according to the Tango Style guidelines. The stroke is not much apparent but is still visible enough to make the icon visible on dark backgrounds.
[1] http://www.oxygen-icons.org/ [2] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
Cheers Josef
Josef Vybiral wrote:
Daniel Pope píše v St 17. 01. 2007 v 11:07 +0000:
Well, that would probably be most ideal solution. Or we can find a compromise between tango and other styles like oxygen, xp/vista etc..., to make icon look more neutral.
Did some quick mockups to see if it worked well on XP and Vista as well. http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/xp-inkscape.png http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/vista-inkscape.png
Compare with the current icon. http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/xp-inkscape-oldicon.png
- Andreas
Andreas Nilsson wrote:
Compare with the current icon. http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/xp-inkscape-oldicon.png
That is not the current icon on Windows. The actual icon is shiny but a little aliased.
Dan
Josef Vybiral wrote:
Daniel Pope píše v St 17. 01. 2007 v 11:07 +0000:
Josef Vybiral wrote:
There was a different Tangoified version of the Inkscape icon submitted to the Tango mailing list yesterday.
I am aware of that icon. The bad about that icon is that its quality cannot be compared to the one in the tracker which looks imho much better.
share/clipart/inkscape.icon.svg is much higher quality than either.
Where is this file? I do not have it in my SVN checkout. I have /share/clipart/inkscape.logo.svg only and it is a logo, not an icon. There is no inkscape.svg icon in size of 48x48 or 32x32 or smaller sizes.
Sorry, that's the one I mean. It's not an icon, no, but the shape is better. It has received several amendments over time. The icons seem to have been sourced from older versions.
The situation appears to be:
- Vista, Mac OS X and Oxygen are more photo-realistic.
Yes, but these icons are intended to be displayed on high resolution displays and/or in bigger sizes. And to be honest, I do not see how we could make Inkscape's icon photo-realistic :)
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/45360907/ :)
- XP and Crystal are colourful and shiny.
Yes they are. To make icons fit these "themes" was also one of reasons why the example implementation of tango uses the palette that it uses; IIRC.
Really? Tango is much flatter and more subdued than XP or Crystal.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/27940418/
But I can't see how an ideal solution might work. Should we maintain icons compatible with all the icon styles I mentioned?
Well, that would probably be most ideal solution. Or we can find a compromise between tango and other styles like oxygen, xp/vista etc..., to make icon look more neutral.
Ok, well obviously we need to maintain our own icons for Mac and Windows, but on Linux icon themes take precedence over bundled icons.
Perhaps we should provide a selection of icons to packagers, because the different distros have different requirements with respect to default icons. Many distros default to KDE with Crystal icons; Ubuntu defaults to Gnome with Human icons.
As I say, I don't know exactly how this works or how it is conventionally dealt with.
Dan
Dan
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 11:18:24AM +0000, Daniel Pope wrote:
Well, that would probably be most ideal solution. Or we can find a compromise between tango and other styles like oxygen, xp/vista etc..., to make icon look more neutral.
Ok, well obviously we need to maintain our own icons for Mac and Windows, but on Linux icon themes take precedence over bundled icons.
Perhaps we should provide a selection of icons to packagers, because the different distros have different requirements with respect to default icons. Many distros default to KDE with Crystal icons; Ubuntu defaults to Gnome with Human icons.
This seems like the right approach; it gives packagers some choice in selecting an icon which will best fit the given desktop, while permitting us to maintain some level of control over the icon appearance. On KDE in gentoo, the GIMP icon changed at one point from the clear Wilbur head, into one that "fit" so well into the desktop that I can't tell the difference between it and open office. ;-)
I think it's most important that the icon remain conceptually consistent across as many platforms and desktops as possible. For instance, we want Windows users to grow to love Inkscape, and then when they switch to Linux, be able to easily spot it because of the familiar icon.
Bryce
Bryce Harrington píše v Čt 18. 01. 2007 v 10:11 -0800:
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 11:18:24AM +0000, Daniel Pope wrote:
Well, that would probably be most ideal solution. Or we can find a compromise between tango and other styles like oxygen, xp/vista etc..., to make icon look more neutral.
Ok, well obviously we need to maintain our own icons for Mac and Windows, but on Linux icon themes take precedence over bundled icons.
Perhaps we should provide a selection of icons to packagers, because the different distros have different requirements with respect to default icons. Many distros default to KDE with Crystal icons; Ubuntu defaults to Gnome with Human icons.
This seems like the right approach; it gives packagers some choice in selecting an icon which will best fit the given desktop, while permitting us to maintain some level of control over the icon appearance.
Andreas and I have played with the icon a bit this afternoon and let me introduce version for Mac OS X: [1] and [2].
I've also checked the icon for Windows [3] and that version still looks to me a bit off place for XP, mainly because of the gloss. It is too much visible. The same is valid if I imagine the icon among icons for Vista so there are two possibilities: 1) Try to use the tangoified version [4] ( + is, that the 16x16 and 22x22 are way much better then actual ones. 2) Use the version we prepared for MacOS X, simplify and tweak it for smaller sizes.
On KDE in gentoo, the GIMP icon changed at one point from the clear Wilbur head, into one that "fit" so well into the desktop that I can't tell the difference between it and open office. ;-)
Yeah, I've seen that in OpenSUSE 10.0 too even in GNOME :)
I think it's most important that the icon remain conceptually consistent across as many platforms and desktops as possible. For instance, we want Windows users to grow to love Inkscape, and then when they switch to Linux, be able to easily spot it because of the familiar icon.
Agreed.
Sincerely Josef Vybíral a.k.a cornelius
[1] http://vybiral.info/mockup/inkscape/inkscape128.svg [2] http://vybiral.info/mockup/inkscape/inkscape256.svg [3] http://vybiral.info/mockup/inkscape/inkscape-desktop.png [4] http://vybiral.info/mockup/inkscape/inkscape.ico
participants (5)
-
Andreas Nilsson -
Bryce Harrington -
Daniel Pope -
Josef 'cornelius' Vybíral -
Josef Vybiral