Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
If I may add a few words about interface...
Inkscape now has several pretty fun options for path shapes: - Simple line
- Pattern along path - Powerstroke - Sketch brush - [anything I might have missed. There will probably be future options too]
Now, for the "shape" drop-down I rarely use the presets because they are rarely the exact width I need them at, it's easier to create the right shape and copy it. So, how about the following?
Shape: - Line - Thick stroke (<- powerstroke)
- Sketch brush - Clipboard - Custom (insert drop-down of shapes you've saved for Pattern along Path)
It's rather unfortunate that Inkscape's tool control bar is static, otherwise I'd recommend for common options (like width and repeat options
in Pattern Along Path) to appear depending on the shape you've selected.
(though in the meantime, can someone please add dashes and markers to the tool option bar? Having to hunt through two
layersof Fill & Stroke dialogue each time is a bit annoying... also, a button to match marker colors to stroke color rather than hunting through the menus, please? Some of us do a lot of graphs in Inkscape...)
More generally, I'd like to see some proper of sorting of LPEs eventually: - Path shapes can be integrated into pen and other tools - Effects like Gears seem like they belong in Extension -> Render - I'd also Really like easier and on-canvas access to some transformations that would probably be used more often if access were easier (not only LPE): Envelope, Perspective, and Envelope deformation. Couldn't we include them as a drop-down options (like with pen and Shape) in the Select and Transform
tool? I can do mock-ups.
Valerie VK wrote
If I may add a few words about interface...
Inkscape now has several pretty fun options for path shapes:
Simple line
Pattern along path
Powerstroke
Sketch brush
[anything I might have missed. There will probably be future options
too]
Now, for the "shape" drop-down I rarely use the presets because they are rarely the exact width I need them at, it's easier to create the right shape and copy it. So, how about the following?
Shape:
Line
Thick stroke (<- powerstroke)
Sketch brush
Clipboard
Custom (insert drop-down of shapes you've saved for Pattern
along Path)
It's rather unfortunate that Inkscape's tool control bar is static, otherwise I'd recommend for common options (like width and repeat options
in Pattern Along Path) to appear depending on the shape you've selected.
(though in the meantime, can someone please add dashes and markers to the tool option bar? Having to hunt through two
layersof Fill & Stroke dialogue each time is a bit annoying... also, a button to match marker colors to stroke color rather than hunting through the menus, please? Some of us do a lot of graphs in Inkscape...)
More generally, I'd like to see some proper of sorting of LPEs eventually:
- Path shapes can be integrated into pen and other tools
- Effects like Gears seem like they belong in Extension -> Render
- I'd also Really like easier and on-canvas access to some transformations
that would probably be used more often if access were easier (not only LPE): Envelope, Perspective, and Envelope deformation. Couldn't we include them as a drop-down options (like with pen and Shape) in the Select and Transform
tool? I can do mock-ups.
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For what I've been doing I would agree that adding it to the Shape drop down would be an ideal way to do it, although if possible it would be nice to have a filled powerstroke as one of the options (that creates the cloned original path LPE on a new path below the new powerstroke one).
Also, a further question on Powerstroke. Is there a way to directly numerically set the width of points other than editing the xml? I ran into the case today where I wanted to set two points in a row to a width of zero so that that section of the stroke disappeared and was able to do it through the xml editor easily enough, but that was mainly because it was a small test image. I imagine on a normal-sized image this would be quite clunky.
Regards, Aaron
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For what I've been doing I would agree that adding it to the Shape drop down would be an ideal way to do it, although if possible it would be nice to have a filled powerstroke as one of the options (that creates the cloned original path LPE on a new path below the new powerstroke one).
It actually took me quite a while to understand what "filled powerstroke" was supposed to be, but I finally get it: it's basically "shape with complex stroke." Mouse-over should also explain something along the lines of "creates a shape with complex edge."
I wholly agree that it should be included, I have to redraw the same shapes way too often when I want variable edges.
While we're at it, my "thick stroke" sounds awful ("fat heart attack?"). How about: - "Variable line" for Powerstroke - "Variable edge" or "Variable boundary" for Filled Powerstroke?
Opinions please!
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
As long as I can find it wherever it eventually ends up it makes no difference to me what it's called, although since 'stroke' is used throughout the rest of the program it'd probably be best to stick with that. So perhaps "Variable stroke" and "Variable stroke (filled)" or something similar.
Just tossing stuff out there.
Regards, Aaron
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Valerie VK [via Inkscape] < ml-node+s13n3680814h88@...2730...> wrote:
For what I've been doing I would agree that adding it to the Shape drop
down
would be an ideal way to do it, although if possible it would be nice to have a filled powerstroke as one of the options (that creates the cloned original path LPE on a new path below the new powerstroke one).
It actually took me quite a while to understand what "filled powerstroke" was supposed to be, but I finally get it: it's basically "shape with complex stroke." Mouse-over should also explain something along the lines of "creates a shape with complex edge."
I wholly agree that it should be included, I have to redraw the same shapes way too often when I want variable edges.
While we're at it, my "thick stroke" sounds awful ("fat heart attack?"). How about:
- "Variable line" for Powerstroke
- "Variable edge" or "Variable boundary" for Filled Powerstroke?
Opinions please!
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Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
In svg terminology the stroke is always the line drawn round the perimeter of the shape, not an independent line (have you used flash a lot maybe?) An svg shape has both a fill (interior) and stroke (perimeter)
Cheers
John
Sent from my iPad
On 17 Jan 2012, at 15:45, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
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I've actually never used Flash; just commenting on what I perceived as the terminology used throughout Inkscape.
With that said, call it whatever you'd like :) . I'm just happy the feature's in there as it's already making editing much better for me.
Now, any chance of an easier way to enter/select an exact width for a node?
Regards, Aaron
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:03 PM, john cliff-2 [via Inkscape] < ml-node+s13n3681229h53@...2730...> wrote:
In svg terminology the stroke is always the line drawn round the perimeter of the shape, not an independent line (have you used flash a lot maybe?) An svg shape has both a fill (interior) and stroke (perimeter)
Cheers
John
Sent from my iPad
On 17 Jan 2012, at 15:45, Valerie <[hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3681229&i=0> wrote:
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
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No, I've never used flash. On the other hand, in art terminology, the stroke is always an independent line, not the line drawn around a shape. I'm talking about non-technical terminology. :)
Pencil stroke: ""when you make a mark with your pen or pencil." Brush stroke:
"the paint left on a surface by a single application of a brush or palette knife"
I'd like to note that even in .svg, when the object is not filled, a stroke is also an independent line (for users anyway).
----- Original Message ----- From: John Cliff <john.cliff@...400...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" <inkscape-devel@...2164...e.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
In svg terminology the stroke is always the line drawn round the perimeter of the shape, not an independent line (have you used flash a lot maybe?) An svg shape has both a fill (interior) and stroke (perimeter)
Cheers
John
Sent from my iPad
On 17 Jan 2012, at 15:45, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
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You forgot "Skeletal Stroke" which was the name in Expression for the path along which the line is drawn.
ivan
________________________________ De : Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> À : Inkscape-devel inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mercredi 18 Janvier 2012 1h29 Objet : Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
No, I've never used flash. On the other hand, in art terminology, the stroke is always an independent line, not the line drawn around a shape. I'm talking about non-technical terminology. :)
Pencil stroke: ""when you make a mark with your pen or pencil." Brush stroke:
"the paint left on a surface by a single application of a brush or palette knife"
I'd like to note that even in .svg, when the object is not filled, a stroke is also an independent line (for users anyway).
----- Original Message ----- From: John Cliff <john.cliff@...400...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" <inkscape-devel@...2164...e.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
In svg terminology the stroke is always the line drawn round the perimeter of the shape, not an independent line (have you used flash a lot maybe?) An svg shape has both a fill (interior) and stroke (perimeter)
Cheers
John
Sent from my iPad
On 17 Jan 2012, at 15:45, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
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+1... we should adopt skeletal stroke or centerline or something terminology-wise to make communication about related topics and features more easily discussed.
Cheers, Josh On Jan 18, 2012 2:05 AM, "Ivan Louette" <ivan_louette@...48...> wrote:
You forgot "Skeletal Stroke" which was the name in Expression for the path along which the line is drawn.
ivan
*De :* Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> *À :* Inkscape-devel inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 18 Janvier 2012 1h29 *Objet :* Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
No, I've never used flash. On the other hand, in art terminology, the stroke is always an independent line, not the line drawn around a shape. I'm talking about non-technical terminology. :)
Pencil stroke: ""when you make a mark with your pen or pencil." Brush stroke:
"the paint left on a surface by a single application of a brush or palette knife"
I'd like to note that even in .svg, when the object is not filled, a stroke is also an independent line (for users anyway).
----- Original Message ----- From: John Cliff <john.cliff@...400...> To: Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> Cc: "inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" < inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Powerstroke requests
In svg terminology the stroke is always the line drawn round the perimeter of the shape, not an independent line (have you used flash a lot maybe?) An svg shape has both a fill (interior) and stroke (perimeter)
Cheers
John
Sent from my iPad
On 17 Jan 2012, at 15:45, Valerie <valerie_vk@...36...> wrote:
Haha, sorry, yeah that's what I meant, a shape with a variable-width (complex) edge.
I definitely agree with the feature, in any case. :)
The reason I was confused was because for me, a "stroke" is usually an independent line, not necessarily the outer area of a shape. So, reading "filled stroke" made me think the stroke itself was colored, like "a stroke of painting."
Maybe "Variable Stroke" (for powerstroke) and "Variable Boundary" (for filled powerstroke) could be used.
Replacing Variable with Complex could work too, but users may expect the complexity to apply to more than just the width (for example, combination of different line styles).
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Alright, I've played around a bit with the powerstroke LPE for testing. A few things I'm noticing:
1. Because powerstroke creates 1 control node in the middle of the path and one at each of the edges, moving the end nodes of the path becomes awkward. You can either move the control node out of the way first or move the node with the keyboard. That's not a problem for me, but I don't know about others.
2. When I select powerstroke on a path and later extend the path with new nodes, the control nodes at the end still remain at their original locations. But, if Powerstroke gets incorporated into the "Shape" drop-down, users will be creating the path as they go, so all the control nodes may be stuck at the start of the path. Any thoughts on this? I guess the powerstroke could be applied only once the user finishes a path. If he still wants to add new nodes after that, he'll have to move the control nodes manually.
3. Cusp line cap style can be either beveled or rounded. No sharp edge option? In fact, rendering is a bit strange when drawing angled segments. If possible the powertroke should have sharp angles in these scenarios too.
4. There are some other rendering issues, like if the control points are dragged too far, or with overlaps, but most users should be able to avoid those scenarios.
5. Mouse-over the control points should show "ctrl+click to create new node" in the description area. It took me a while to figure out that one.
Overall, this tool certainly makes me happy! It's intuitive and easy to use, and it's terrific for drawings and illustration. Rendering issues can be mostly avoided in the most common usage scenarios. I think the only "real" thing missing is 3.: sharp corners along the powerstroke, and easier access.
participants (5)
-
Defiant00 -
Ivan Louette -
John Cliff -
Josh Andler -
Valerie