RE: Inkscape minor changes I'd like before the next release (if acceptable)
On most of the keyboards I have seen the right Alt key is labelled AltGr (which as far as I can remember is short for Alternative Graphic which is a holdover from back in the days of machines like the Commodore 64 where holding down AltGr and a letter would print a graphical symbol).
I tried using them, lots of crashing http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=887327&grou...
Thanks for reporting, that crash is now fixed in CVS.
No. Arrows are for moving. Rotation is different and needs different
keys.
I disagree (rotation is still moving and I think) using differnt keys is unnecessary.
No. It's a very different kind of moving. If only because moving has four directions and rotation only two (as I wrote you before). You cannot unambiguously map rotation directions to (some of the) four arrows. And finally, arrows are already so busy with different kinds of moving/panning that adding rotation to them would produce a total mess. Nobody will be able to remember those shortcuts.
If i can get a working build I will be sure to try using the keys you proposed but using both Alt keys as you have suggested seems like it would be quite awkward.
It's a bit awkward physically, but it's very easy mentally. It's easy to understand the logic behind these shortcuts and therefore to remember them. Try to invent another system where you can scale/rotate both handles or any single one of them, with two different speeds. Without using left/right alt trick, these keys will likely occupy half of your keyboard and will be impossible to remember.
Panning must not depend on whether there is a selection.
I dont understand. Can you explain why?
Because I may want to pan regardless of any selection, of course!
I'm thinking maybe also that you cannot have a meaningful 'rotate' when you are in Node Edit mode (as opposed to the standard select mode)
Yes I can. Select a node and press [ or ].
I alway think of the node as being the point specifically, you mean to rotate the bezier spline (i think spline is the word I'm looking for, you know the lines that go throught the node and that you can adjust to change the curve).
Not spline, but the control handles of the bezier attached to the node.
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:08:56 +0000 From: bulia byak <archiver_1@...19...> To: horkana@...44... Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: RE: Inkscape minor changes I'd like before the next release (if acceptable)
On most of the keyboards I have seen the right Alt key is labelled AltGr (which as far as I can remember is short for Alternative Graphic which is a holdover from back in the days of machines like the Commodore 64 where holding down AltGr and a letter would print a graphical symbol).
I tried using them, lots of crashing http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=887327&grou...
Thanks for reporting, that crash is now fixed in CVS.
No. Arrows are for moving. Rotation is different and needs different
keys.
How about using Ctrl+R for rotation through 90 degrees? (I use that a whole lot more often than the small rotations anyway). Ctrl+R is currently used by Show Rulers and only becuase I cannot think of anything better I'd suggest using Ctrl+Shift+R for Show Rulers because at least then it would be the same as the GIMP.
It's a bit awkward physically, but it's very easy mentally. It's easy to understand the logic behind these shortcuts and therefore to remember them. Try to invent another system where you can scale/rotate both handles or any single one of them, with two different speeds. Without using left/right alt trick, these keys will likely occupy half of your keyboard and will be impossible to remember.
Panning must not depend on whether there is a selection.
I dont understand. Can you explain why?
Because I may want to pan regardless of any selection, of course!
You might want to, you dont sound all that certain. If only I had the Page up page Down keys to Scroll/Pan! ;)
I've just noticed that the Up and Down Arrow Keys currently Zoom in and Out (when used without any modifier keys) and I would have expected them to be available for Panning when nothing was selected.
I'd think that Up and Down would be best not used for Zooming.
For Zooming it would be better to just have Zoom In + (and also =) as well as Ctrl++ (and Ctrl+=) Zoom Out - as well as Ctrl+- (the use of both + and = is to avoid the nasty differences between QWERTY and AZERTY keyboards) and with Zoom having this generous selection of shorcuts
I'd love to poke and prod inkscape for longer but I've got to go (but I might quickly respond to another mail or two before I go).
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
I think the HOME/PGUP/PGDOWN/END is a fabulous idea for object arrangement. IT IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT OVER OTHER VECTOR APPS. I HOPE WE KEEP IT. SAME WITH THE SCROLL KEYS. Maybe the HIG is incorrect in spots :)
Also, Ahorkana, why don't you dig in, or provide some patches?
Jon
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 16:24, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, bulia byak wrote:
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:08:56 +0000 From: bulia byak <archiver_1@...19...> To: horkana@...44... Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: RE: Inkscape minor changes I'd like before the next release (if acceptable)
On most of the keyboards I have seen the right Alt key is labelled AltGr (which as far as I can remember is short for Alternative Graphic which is a holdover from back in the days of machines like the Commodore 64 where holding down AltGr and a letter would print a graphical symbol).
I tried using them, lots of crashing http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=887327&grou...
Thanks for reporting, that crash is now fixed in CVS.
No. Arrows are for moving. Rotation is different and needs different
keys.
How about using Ctrl+R for rotation through 90 degrees? (I use that a whole lot more often than the small rotations anyway). Ctrl+R is currently used by Show Rulers and only becuase I cannot think of anything better I'd suggest using Ctrl+Shift+R for Show Rulers because at least then it would be the same as the GIMP.
It's a bit awkward physically, but it's very easy mentally. It's easy to understand the logic behind these shortcuts and therefore to remember them. Try to invent another system where you can scale/rotate both handles or any single one of them, with two different speeds. Without using left/right alt trick, these keys will likely occupy half of your keyboard and will be impossible to remember.
Panning must not depend on whether there is a selection.
I dont understand. Can you explain why?
Because I may want to pan regardless of any selection, of course!
You might want to, you dont sound all that certain. If only I had the Page up page Down keys to Scroll/Pan! ;)
I've just noticed that the Up and Down Arrow Keys currently Zoom in and Out (when used without any modifier keys) and I would have expected them to be available for Panning when nothing was selected.
I'd think that Up and Down would be best not used for Zooming.
For Zooming it would be better to just have Zoom In + (and also =) as well as Ctrl++ (and Ctrl+=) Zoom Out - as well as Ctrl+- (the use of both + and = is to avoid the nasty differences between QWERTY and AZERTY keyboards) and with Zoom having this generous selection of shorcuts
I'd love to poke and prod inkscape for longer but I've got to go (but I might quickly respond to another mail or two before I go).
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Jonathan Phillips wrote:
I think the HOME/PGUP/PGDOWN/END is a fabulous idea for object
I hate it. Strongly.
I hate it in the GIMP too but I get annoyed by it less often because they have the convenient overview/navigation wiget for fast convenient panning.
By all means have keybindings for this functionality but I dont think these are the right keys.
It will inevitabley cause confusion at first to have keys labelled 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' and for them to do anything other than go up and down the page but there are compromises that must be made given the limited amount of keys available. I could also suggest that it migth be ergonomically easier to use the alpha numerics because people who are good with the keyboard are most comfortable when their fingers are on the home keys (asdf,jkl).
arrangement. IT IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT OVER OTHER VECTOR APPS. I HOPE WE KEEP IT. SAME WITH THE SCROLL KEYS. Maybe the HIG is incorrect in spots
PLEASE DONT USE BLOCK CAPS IT IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING AND IT IS HARDER TO READ.
Maybe the HIG is incorrect in spots
The Gnome Human Interface Guidelines are by their nature incomplete generalisations and try to give the best answer for the greatest possible amount of people and provide a _consistant_ approach for all of Gnome.
Certainly there are areas where you should ask the writers of the Guidelines how and why they decided on something. There are many compromises involved in generalisations and it is wise to try and understand them and try to learn if those are the right compromises for your application.
The HIG is definately incorrect in spots and I encourage you to help find them and help make it better.
Also, Ahorkana, why don't you dig in, or provide some patches?
My name is Alan.
Patches, because I suck at programming and it would take an exceedingly long time for me to get anything done. I do think that my contributions are useful and worthwhile even if they do not come in the form of code and patches. Projects are made up of more than just programmers, I'm a stakeholder too.
If my suggestions are accepted as valid but no one is interested in implementing them straight away then I would file a report in the bug tracking system and if I had time to try and figure out how to patch it I would try. I have looked at the Sodipodi code before and I found it confusing.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan.
Alan Horkan wrote:
Patches, because I suck at programming and it would take an exceedingly long time for me to get anything done. I do think that my contributions are useful and worthwhile even if they do not come in the form of code and patches. Projects are made up of more than just programmers, I'm a stakeholder too.
I find your comments an interesting counterpoint to Bulia's and I would miss the interesting and often fruitful arguments that result. Submitting broken UI as a bug reports is probably less useful than discussing on the list, do that when we get a "yes it's broken, but it's too hard to fix just now" consensus.
njh
participants (4)
-
Alan Horkan -
bulia byak -
Jonathan Phillips -
Nathan Hurst