Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
Slashdot had an interview with Mitchell Baker this morning, and she answers a question about SVG in Firefox.
"when will it be turned on by default?"
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/22/1442200&tid=154&a...
Actually, she doesn't answer it, which is very, very disappointing. The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
Bob
Bob Jamison wrote:
The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
Just kidding! (mostly) Actually it works quite well. Just built a fresh CVS copy of Firefox with svg on FC3:
http://troi.hous.es3.titan.com/inkscape/files/firefox-i686-linux-gtk2+xft+sv...
It works well on my gentoo box, too.
Bob
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Bob Jamison wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:35:15 -0600 From: Bob Jamison <rjamison@...357...> To: Inkscape ML inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
Bob Jamison wrote:
The situation is quite depressing, with no hopeful future in sight.
Just kidding! (mostly) Actually it works quite well. Just built a fresh CVS
It didn't sound like kidding to me. This isn't anything new. If you were willing to compile from source or use experimental binaries then basic SVG support has been avaible for a long time.
Until there is a proper official release with even a small subset of SVG support it is only slightly better than "Beta Software" for most intents and purposes and doesn't really help to promote the Scalable Vector Graphics standard.
Nothing to see here, move along please.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan. http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
1) Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape) the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an "underground" Firefox w/ SVG version). Maybe use the last cvs before the last release (1.01) so the rest of Firefox is pretty stable for us to use on a regular basis.
2) help the Mozilla team resolve whatever decisions they need to make regarding SVG features vis a vis the CSS conflicts Mitchell mentions.
3) this activity will also help demonstrate demand for SVG to bump it up in the Mozilla priority list
Sitting on our hands waiting for them is not very pro-active - we should be glad it's this far along and jumping on their work - otherwise it only justifies the lower priority it may be receiving. Now anyone have a SVG .deb package that I can use with my Ubuntu? (I'm not sure how to dig into the CVS to get the right version).
John
On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
- Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an "underground" Firefox w/ SVG version). Maybe use the last cvs before the last release (1.01) so the rest of Firefox is pretty stable for us to use on a regular basis.
Well, I like this idea. I would support advocacy on Inkscape.org and Openclipart.org of getting SVG into Mozilla yesterday. I think similarly that putting svg into moz. builds by default now will flush out the bugs much quicker than having it not compiled in by default.
- help the Mozilla team resolve whatever decisions they need to make
regarding SVG features vis a vis the CSS conflicts Mitchell mentions.
This would be good as well. Go for it!
- this activity will also help demonstrate demand for SVG to bump it up in
the Mozilla priority list
Yes, it is generally true that the more hands that are up in the air, then the more attention it will get. I'm afraid that that Firefox is so hungry for market share that they are giving that the most attention...but that is good as well as supporting web standards...
Sitting on our hands waiting for them is not very pro-active - we should be glad it's this far along and jumping on their work - otherwise it only justifies the lower priority it may be receiving. Now anyone have a SVG .deb package that I can use with my Ubuntu? (I'm not sure how to dig into the CVS to get the right version).
I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz svg and moz ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically using SVG as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm open to more suggestions.
I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy between Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser. This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
Jon
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800 From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> To: John Taber <jtaber@...480...> Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...>, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...260...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
Sorry for my pessimism but I don't want developers to underestimate the importantance of proper release builds that users can have some measure of confidence in. "Release early release often" means a lot more than providing CVS access or nightly builds (although that is helpful) proper release builds are needed too.
I can certainly agree that pro-active approach would be much more productive. I dont want to sound too much like I'm volunteering though so I try to be very careful about making such suggestions myself.
- Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
I think we should promote all browsers that support SVG, perhaps even ranking them by whichever we consider best (presumably IE would get a low score for requiring the Adobe SVG plugin).
I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz svg and moz ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should
I think the Inkscape community has enough smart people to call us out if we are being too radical and check we are being polite enough not to hurt our own cause (good management includes telling people when they are out of line, I'm surprised though how little that is needed here as the development culture is already very accepting of change).
promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically using SVG as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm open to more suggestions.
Some sort of "Save for Web" even a Web Preview that wraps an SVG in a small amoutn of XHTML and opens a browser might be helpful here.
I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy between Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser. This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
spreadsvg.org? I think you misspelled openclipart.org ;)
Sincerely
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Abiword http://www.abisource.com Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/ Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
On Thursday 24 March 2005 06:36, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800 This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the
Well, I don't think we need a separate web site but it might be useful to have a wiki page on how to load an Inkscape SVG drawing into a web page. Hmm, I'll start to write up an article - but I guess I need to download a svg enabled firefox version - I think someone posted a link to one yesterday.
Yes, Alan, you are correct in suggesting browser independance. Actually, Opera should be noted to be the first to have direct support. A screenshot of their browser would be good for the wiki page. And even the IE/Adobe combo is the most widely available way to view SVG on the web at the moment for those that use Windows. John
On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 13:36 +0000, Alan Horkan wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jon Phillips wrote:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:51:44 -0800 From: Jon Phillips <jon@...235...> To: John Taber <jtaber@...480...> Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...>, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...260...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Mitchell Baker mentions SVG in Mozilla
On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:11 -0700, John Taber wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:04, Alan Horkan wrote:
Nothing to see here, move along please.
I would disagree - since SVG support is very important to us in the SVG community and if the Mozilla team is holding it back, then the question becomes what can we do to encourage them along. Answer:
Sorry for my pessimism but I don't want developers to underestimate the importantance of proper release builds that users can have some measure of confidence in. "Release early release often" means a lot more than providing CVS access or nightly builds (although that is helpful) proper release builds are needed too.
I can certainly agree that pro-active approach would be much more productive. I dont want to sound too much like I'm volunteering though so I try to be very careful about making such suggestions myself.
- Promote (and yes I mean stick a link right on the home page of Inkscape)
the use of a beta version with SVG amongst the SVG community to help the Mozilla team flush out SVG bugs (this is what I meant by promoting an
I think we should promote all browsers that support SVG, perhaps even ranking them by whichever we consider best (presumably IE would get a low score for requiring the Adobe SVG plugin).
Agree...
I tend to agree with you, but I also don't want to anger moz svg and moz ppl. in general by seeming too radical in bent. I think that we should
I think the Inkscape community has enough smart people to call us out if we are being too radical and check we are being polite enough not to hurt our own cause (good management includes telling people when they are out of line, I'm surprised though how little that is needed here as the development culture is already very accepting of change).
True...
promote SVG more than we are currently. Right now we basically using SVG as a file format for illustration/drawing and are not capitalizing on it as a dynamic/interactive major web format. Imagine surfing all SVG web pages! We really need to think about how we are emphasizing SVG. I'm open to more suggestions.
Some sort of "Save for Web" even a Web Preview that wraps an SVG in a small amoutn of XHTML and opens a browser might be helpful here.
This is a really good idea. Could you file an RFE against this. This is a great idea, even though you don't need to wrap SVG in html to get it to work. I think though that would help get across the concept that these are for web. Personally, I think our export should expand to also export jpg, tiff, and svg in html....
I think one good approach would be to develop a strategy between Openclipart.org, Inkscape and mozilla svg to support SVG in the browser. This could take the form of some web buttons/banners and a page
I'm not sure a browser specific push in necessarily the best way to go, I think we should promote the browsers that are best for SVG.
Agree...don't want to be biased towards specific browsers, but rather implementation. In fact, if IE came out with full SVG support, I would be pretty supportive of that browser.
supporting adoption. This could be housed either on Openclipart.org or Inkscape.org. Do you know how to edit our webpage? Are there any volunteers to push this? Look at how Firefox has the spreadfirefox.org...why don't you start something like spreadsvg.org !
spreadsvg.org? I think you misspelled openclipart.org ;)
OOps...
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participants (4)
-
Alan Horkan -
Bob Jamison -
John Taber -
Jon Phillips