NEW: Grid visibility and snap enabling
Hi all,
I just added two checkboxes to the grid settings:
* Visibility and snap enabled. ** Visibility turns of display of the grid, which I find useful from time to time because snapping is still enabled for invisible grids. To disable snapping (when having multiple grids, this is essential), one should use 'snap enabled' ** "Snap enabled" does not yet work. I hope Diederik can implement this soon, I think it should not be too hard?
* I hope to get the axonometric grid working soon, I need it at work! :-)
* I am aware of the bugs in setting grid parameters. Hopefully I can find the cause soon, it is annoying me aswell.
Cheers, Johan
J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... schrieb:
Hi all,
I just added two checkboxes to the grid settings:
- Visibility and snap enabled.
This is certainly useful. But I fear it can also cause confusion because to some extent it seems to contradict the use of the View->Grid command (or the '#' keyboard shortcut, respectively). For example, when there is only one grid for which visibility is turned off then pressing '#' at first glance doesn't seem to have any effect. So at least there should be some indicator (other than the Document Properties dialog, which may be closed) to let the user know whether there is an (enabled) invisible grid present (which will be snapped to) or whether grids are turned off altogether. BTW, would it also be possible to indicate directly in the View menu whether grids are enabled?
Thanks, Max
<J.B.C.Engelen@...360...> writes:
Hi all,
I just added two checkboxes to the grid settings:
Thanks for the improvements to snap. I was wondering, while you are at it, how hard would it be to create something which does the opposite? Ill explain -
Sometime I want to still see the grid, but disable snapping for a while. By "for a while" I mean that I usually work with snap enabled, for example when I draw boxes and move things, but here and there would like to do something freehand - for example, frehand line drawing - in which case I need to disable all snap. Opening the document properties dialog and unchecking all boxes works, but it's awkward and requires me to later re-check all those boxes later.
Is it possible to create a universal "snap on/off" command which will be in the menu so there won't be a need to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time? When it's on, it will respect all the settings in the dialog. When off, no snap will be active. Ideally this should be in the view menu below grid and guides.
Bug #170970 in the bug tracker suggests something similar. I'm okay with both icon and menu item, either should work. I think it would be really helpful.
Thank you for your work on Inkscape so far - Michael
Michael Grosberg wrote:
Is it possible to create a universal "snap on/off" command which will be in the menu so there won't be a need to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time? When it's on, it will respect all the settings in the dialog. When off, no snap will be active. Ideally this should be in the view menu below grid and guides.
Of course that would be easy to implement, and I've been considering something like that before. What kept me back is that it will also make snapping more confusing. For example, for snapping to an object we would need to enable the universal snap option, _and_ "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", _and _ "snap to object nodes" or "snap to object paths". It will happen way to often that you'll forget to enable one of these three options, if you're aware of them at all. Even for experienced users this is confusing, I've been there ;-).
In virtually all workflows, you would either use "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", not both at the same time. So to disable all snapping, you currently only have to uncheck one of these options in the document properties to disable all snapping. Maybe we should have a key/menu item/icon bound to both these options to make them easier accessible, instead of adding an universal snap option? This way you don't have to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time, and we will only have two options in series for snapping to objects. For snapping to e.g. guides, we will still have only one option to be enabled.
So, should we add a key binding, menu item and icon for this?
Diederik
Bug #170970 in the bug tracker suggests something similar. I'm okay with both icon and menu item, either should work. I think it would be really helpful.
Thank you for your work on Inkscape so far - Michael
SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
-----Original Message----- From: inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Diederik van Lierop Sent: zaterdag 1 december 2007 13:58 To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] NEW: Grid visibility and snap enabling
Michael Grosberg wrote:
Is it possible to create a universal "snap on/off" command
which will
be in the menu so there won't be a need to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time? When it's on, it will respect all the settings in the dialog. When off, no snap will be active. Ideally this should be in the view menu below grid and guides.
Of course that would be easy to implement, and I've been considering something like that before. What kept me back is that it will also make snapping more confusing. For example, for snapping to an object we would need to enable the universal snap option, _and_ "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", _and _ "snap to object nodes" or "snap to object paths". It will happen way to often that you'll forget to enable one of these three options, if you're aware of them at all. Even for experienced users this is confusing, I've been there ;-).
In virtually all workflows, you would either use "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", not both at the same time. So to disable all snapping, you currently only have to uncheck one of these options in the document properties to disable all snapping. Maybe we should have a key/menu item/icon bound to both these options to make them easier accessible, instead of adding an universal snap option? This way you don't have to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time, and we will only have two options in series for snapping to objects. For snapping to e.g. guides, we will still have only one option to be enabled.
So, should we add a key binding, menu item and icon for this?
A possible solution:
* Shift+# => toggle grids visible = snapping = !visible. The new state is determined according to the visibility of the grid. If the grid is visible, after pressing shift+# the grid will be invisible and snapping is off, regardless the snapping state before pressing shift+#
* Ctrl+Shift+# => toggle grids visibility visible = !visible snapping is left alone and can still be enabled
* Alt+Shift+# => toggle grids snapping snapping = !snapping visibility is left alone and can still be enabled
This way, Shift+# will still work as it does now to new users. Only advanced users will ever want to use alt or ctrl I think. The current menu item should become a submenu, containing the three toggles. This is a downside as it requires more menu browsing than now.
Johan
J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... wrote:
This way, Shift+# will still work as it does now to new users. Only advanced users will ever want to use alt or ctrl I think. The current menu item should become a submenu, containing the three toggles. This is a downside as it requires more menu browsing than now.
Johan
Indeed, that's the other option. We can enable/disable snapping either using the nodes/bbox option, or using the grids/guides/objects option. The latter is more common, especially wanting to see the grid but not snapping to it. But shouldn't we then provide the same toggles for guides and objects, for consistency's sake?
Diederik
-----Original Message----- From: inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:inkscape-devel-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Diederik van Lierop Sent: zaterdag 1 december 2007 16:42 To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] NEW: Grid visibility and snap enabling
J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... wrote:
This way, Shift+# will still work as it does now to new users. Only advanced users will ever want to use alt or ctrl I think. The current menu item should become a submenu, containing the three toggles. This is a downside as it requires more menu
browsing than now.
Indeed, that's the other option. We can enable/disable snapping either using the nodes/bbox option, or using the grids/guides/objects option. The latter is more common, especially wanting to see the grid but not snapping to it. But shouldn't we then provide the same toggles for guides and objects, for consistency's sake?
Snapping to guides and objects is different from grid, because it is not as "predictable" as grids. I think snapping to invisible guides or objects would be strange. A general "no snap" toggle would be very nice, though most tools already have this I think.
When using the grids/guides/objects option to toggle snapping, we will need an additional checkbox for each of those in the document properties dialog. (when requiring that all snapping options should be accessible in that dialog). This is not needed when using the nodes/bbox option, as we have checkboxes for these already.
We don't have a checkbox for grid showing, just the toggle is enough. I feel it is an editing toggle, not really a document setting. (I propose *not* to save the visibility/snap toggle states, just the combined state as is done now. Otherwise, one opens a document and gets unexpected behaviour, because he does not know the grid was hidden with the toggle)
- Johan
J.B.C.Engelen@...1578... wrote:
Snapping to guides and objects is different from grid, because it is not as "predictable" as grids. I think snapping to invisible guides or objects would be strange.
You're right about that. I was also thinking however about the opposite situation of a visible grid without snapping. If that's useful in some cases, then also visible guide without snapping could be useful.
A general "no snap" toggle would be very nice, though most tools already have this I think.
There is indeed the key modifier for the selector tool, which would be sufficient for me. But I am not sure if that would hold for all our users ;-)
We don't have a checkbox for grid showing, just the toggle is enough. I feel it is an editing toggle, not really a document setting. (I propose *not* to save the visibility/snap toggle states, just the combined state as is done now. Otherwise, one opens a document and gets unexpected behaviour, because he does not know the grid was hidden with the toggle)
Ok, but what if a someone accidentally hits ctrl-shift-#, instead of shift #? Then the grid would be invisible, whereas snapping is still on. The most logical thing to do for the user is looking into the document properties to restore things, but that's not possible.
What we're doing here is adding a separate state for snapability (currently only have one state, i.e. visibility = snapability), which I think is good, but with only limited user control. I'm not sure if that's a good idea.
Diederik
This might be supreme oversimplification, but couldn't you just add a toggle to the toolbar for all snapping, then add a toggle to the top of the snapping properties page for all snapping (which would be the same toggle in different places).
Then, if all snapping is toggled off, the snapping page would be greyed out. If it is turned on, then you can choose which types of snapping to use.
It could just be called something like "snapping on/off", since mentioning no specific type of snapping would make it more obvious that it's for snapping in general.
JF
Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Michael Grosberg wrote:
Is it possible to create a universal "snap on/off" command which will be in the menu so there won't be a need to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time? When it's on, it will respect all the settings in the dialog. When off, no snap will be active. Ideally this should be in the view menu below grid and guides.
Of course that would be easy to implement, and I've been considering something like that before. What kept me back is that it will also make snapping more confusing. For example, for snapping to an object we would need to enable the universal snap option, _and_ "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", _and _ "snap to object nodes" or "snap to object paths". It will happen way to often that you'll forget to enable one of these three options, if you're aware of them at all. Even for experienced users this is confusing, I've been there ;-).
In virtually all workflows, you would either use "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", not both at the same time. So to disable all snapping, you currently only have to uncheck one of these options in the document properties to disable all snapping. Maybe we should have a key/menu item/icon bound to both these options to make them easier accessible, instead of adding an universal snap option? This way you don't have to keep the document preferences dialog open all the time, and we will only have two options in series for snapping to objects. For snapping to e.g. guides, we will still have only one option to be enabled.
So, should we add a key binding, menu item and icon for this?
Diederik
Bug #170970 in the bug tracker suggests something similar. I'm okay with both icon and menu item, either should work. I think it would be really helpful.
Thank you for your work on Inkscape so far - Michael
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Joshua Facemyer / Impressus Art wrote:
This might be supreme oversimplification, but couldn't you just add a toggle to the toolbar for all snapping, then add a toggle to the top of the snapping properties page for all snapping (which would be the same toggle in different places).
That's indeed one of the options. The only thing is that it will also make snapping more confusing IMO. For example, for snapping to an object we would need to enable the universal snap option, _and_ "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", _and _ "snap to object nodes" or "snap to object paths". It will happen way to often that you'll forget to enable one of these three options, if you're aware of them at all....
But maybe I should just stop searching for the perfect solution....
Diederik
Well, then you might also make the toggle visible on the toolbar only when one of the snap options is enabled (or set it to grey out when they're not enabled). That way, you *must* view the document snap settings page before you get any snapping, which means you'll probably notice that none of the snapping options are enabled.
JF
Diederik van Lierop wrote:
Joshua Facemyer / Impressus Art wrote:
This might be supreme oversimplification, but couldn't you just add a toggle to the toolbar for all snapping, then add a toggle to the top of the snapping properties page for all snapping (which would be the same toggle in different places).
That's indeed one of the options. The only thing is that it will also make snapping more confusing IMO. For example, for snapping to an object we would need to enable the universal snap option, _and_ "snap nodes" or "snap bounding box corners", _and _ "snap to object nodes" or "snap to object paths". It will happen way to often that you'll forget to enable one of these three options, if you're aware of them at all....
But maybe I should just stop searching for the perfect solution....
Diederik
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On Dec 3, 2007 5:54 PM, Joshua Facemyer / Impressus Art wrote:
Well, then you might also make the toggle visible on the toolbar only when one of the snap options is enabled (or set it to grey out when they're not enabled). That way, you *must* view the document snap settings page before you get any snapping, which means you'll probably notice that none of the snapping options are enabled.
I'd add to this that "Snap" and "Snap details" tab captions are not a fun to translate. Do these options really have to be in separate tabs?
Alexandre
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
I'd add to this that "Snap" and "Snap details" tab captions are not a fun to translate. Do these options really have to be in separate tabs?
Well, trying to fit them into one tab is no fun either ;-).
Really, there's already a large number of snapping options and there will even be more in the near future. I don't like a screen-filling dialog, à la AutoCAD.
Diederik
On Dec 3, 2007 12:28 PM, Diederik van Lierop <mail@...1689...> wrote:
Well, trying to fit them into one tab is no fun either ;-).
Really, there's already a large number of snapping options and there will even be more in the near future. I don't like a screen-filling dialog, à la AutoCAD.
Then please try to find more meaningful names. Separate the options by some aspect and reflect that aspect in tab names. "X" and "More on X" and "Still more on X" aren't good tab names.
participants (7)
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unknown＠example.com -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
bulia byak -
Diederik van Lierop -
Joshua Facemyer / Impressus Art -
Maximilian Albert -
Michael Grosberg