i've just updated my copy of inkscape and i have one suggestion concerning mouse wheel support. inkscape now uses wheel to move vertically, ctrl+wheel to move horizontally and shift+wheel to zoom in/out. in other applications (mozilla, opera, abiword, openoffice, corel draw) ctrl+wheel zooms (i know, i know in gimp shift+wheel zooms :-). so maybe it would be possible to have ctrl+wheel zoom? or both ctlr+wheel or shift+whell zoom, and for example alt +wheel move horizontally. one more think i noticed is a fact that when scrolling, some black horizontal stripes blink during refreshing of a document. this doesn't happen when zooming.
best regards yemu
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Yemu wrote:
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:44:44 +0000 From: Yemu <yemu@...7...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-devel] mouse wheel
i've just updated my copy of inkscape and i have one suggestion concerning mouse wheel support. inkscape now uses wheel to move vertically, ctrl+wheel to move horizontally and shift+wheel to zoom in/out. in other applications (mozilla, opera, abiword, openoffice, corel draw) ctrl+wheel zooms (i know, i know in gimp shift+wheel zooms :-). so maybe it would be possible to have ctrl+wheel zoom? or both ctlr+wheel or shift+whell zoom, and for example alt +wheel move horizontally.
I did a little comparison research when Abiword implemented this and there are plenty of applications using this in a consistant way.
The defacto standard is Zooming with Ctrl+Wheel (up & down == Zoom in & out). Wheel should scroll the page up and down, and Shift+Wheel should Scroll sideways.
I also rather angrily made the point to another project that it is just insane to use Page Up and Page Down by default for something other than the blindingly obvious moving up and down the page (by all means use the shift and ctrl modifiers to make it do something else). Note I said 'by default' because if you follow my advice users can still rebind the keys to a menu item but if you bind PageUp PageDn to menu items there is no easy way for me to make PageUp do exactly what it is supposed to do! (Bitter bitter lemons. I was upset that I even had to explain this to them it was so blindingly obvious to me. It makes me upset just to explain it again).
In that same vein it makes most sense to me to use the Arrow Keys to nudge the currently selected object by a very small amount (and if no object is selected to move up/down a small amount of the page, and again by all means use shift and ctrl modifiers with the arrow keys to do something else if you want).
I'm not sure what the current behaviour of the GIMP 1.3/2.0 is and would urge you not to follow the GIMP in this case when many applications consistantly do things as I and Yemu have described.
Best to use Alt modifiers as the last option.
(Feel free to skip this, Explanation: I also wouldn't recommend extreme caution before using alt as an accelorator and to use Ctrl and or Shift first. Some platforms use Alt as the main modifier/command key instead of Control (BeOS, and one of the really old crappy versions of Netscape I was using somewhere around the University) and many platforms use Alt to access menus (such as Alt+F to access the _File menu) and you dont want shortcuts to collide or to have a workflows that users might accidentally trip over.)
Hope that helps.
Sincerely
Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/
AH> I also rather angrily made the point to another project that it is just AH> insane to use Page Up and Page Down by default for something other than AH> the blindingly obvious moving up and down the page (by all means use the AH> shift and ctrl modifiers to make it do something else). Note I said 'by AH> default' because if you follow my advice users can still rebind the keys AH> to a menu item but if you bind PageUp PageDn to menu items there is no AH> easy way for me to make PageUp do exactly what it is supposed to do!
I agree. raising and lowering objects could be bind to ctrl+pgup/pgdn and sending to back/front to ctrl+shift+pgup/pgdn. i think that pgup and pgdn shouldn't be used at all, at least for now. when svg specification will allow multiple paged documents (i hope it will happen soon :-) and inkscape will support it pgup and pgdn may be used to switch pages (and this will do exactly what the keys mean :-)
AH> I also wouldn't recommend extreme caution before using alt as an AH> accelorator and to use Ctrl and or Shift first. Some platforms use Alt as AH> the main modifier/command key instead of Control (BeOS, and one of the AH> really old crappy versions of Netscape I was using somewhere around the AH> University) and many platforms use Alt to access menus (such as Alt+F to AH> access the _File menu) and you dont want shortcuts to collide or to have AH> a workflows that users might accidentally trip over.) in Poland we use keyboard layout in which special characters are made with right alt (alt+o, alt+e, alt+l and others), so i think alt as a modifier is not a good idea because some shortcuts may not work, or it might be problems with text input (such problems occur in some programs in ms win)
best regards yemu
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, Yemu wrote:
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:37:44 +0000 From: Yemu <yemu@...7...> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> Cc: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] mouse wheel
AH> I also rather angrily made the point to another project that it is just AH> insane to use Page Up and Page Down by default for something other than AH> the blindingly obvious moving up and down the page (by all means use the AH> shift and ctrl modifiers to make it do something else). Note I said 'by AH> default' because if you follow my advice users can still rebind the keys AH> to a menu item but if you bind PageUp PageDn to menu items there is no AH> easy way for me to make PageUp do exactly what it is supposed to do!
I agree. raising and lowering objects could be bind to ctrl+pgup/pgdn and sending to back/front to ctrl+shift+pgup/pgdn.
when you say raising and lowering objects I assume you mean the following
Ordering --- Send to Back Ctrl+B Bring to Front Ctrl+F --- Send Backwards Shift+Ctrl+B Bring Forwards Shift+Ctrl+F
(this is pretty much what Microsoft Visio uses, but I'm not sure if Send Backwards and Bring Forwards actually have any shortcuts at all)
And as you can see I'd not recommend using Ctrl+PageUp or Ctrl+PageDown.
Even though I like tabbed intefaces about as much as a bad rash (and they get recommended indiscriminately and have spread across open source software like one) I should point out that many users expect Ctrl+PageUp/PageDown to switch between Tabs and Inkscape were planning to add a tabbed inteface you wouldn't want to take this keybinding.
i think that pgup and pgdn shouldn't be used at all, at least for now. when svg specification will allow multiple paged documents (i hope it will happen soon :-) and inkscape will support it pgup and pgdn may be used to switch pages (and this will do exactly what the keys mean :-)
If I'm at 1600% Zoom 'a page' is not taken literally, it is taken to mean move down a distance proportional to the amount of page that currently fits onscreen (if-you-know-what-I-mean). Programs such as Abiword use Ctrl+PageDown to mean go down exactly to the start of the next physical page.
- Alan H.
Illustrator uses Ctrl+[, Ctrl+] for Z Ordering.
-thomas
On Nov 22, 2003, at 5:37 AM, Yemu wrote:
AH> I also rather angrily made the point to another project that it is just AH> insane to use Page Up and Page Down by default for something other than AH> the blindingly obvious moving up and down the page (by all means use the AH> shift and ctrl modifiers to make it do something else). Note I said 'by AH> default' because if you follow my advice users can still rebind the keys AH> to a menu item but if you bind PageUp PageDn to menu items there is no AH> easy way for me to make PageUp do exactly what it is supposed to do!
I agree. raising and lowering objects could be bind to ctrl+pgup/pgdn and sending to back/front to ctrl+shift+pgup/pgdn. i think that pgup and pgdn shouldn't be used at all, at least for now. when svg specification will allow multiple paged documents (i hope it will happen soon :-) and inkscape will support it pgup and pgdn may be used to switch pages (and this will do exactly what the keys mean :-)
AH> I also wouldn't recommend extreme caution before using alt as an AH> accelorator and to use Ctrl and or Shift first. Some platforms use Alt as AH> the main modifier/command key instead of Control (BeOS, and one of the AH> really old crappy versions of Netscape I was using somewhere around the AH> University) and many platforms use Alt to access menus (such as Alt+F to AH> access the _File menu) and you dont want shortcuts to collide or to have AH> a workflows that users might accidentally trip over.) in Poland we use keyboard layout in which special characters are made with right alt (alt+o, alt+e, alt+l and others), so i think alt as a modifier is not a good idea because some shortcuts may not work, or it might be problems with text input (such problems occur in some programs in ms win)
best regards yemu
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On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, T Ingham wrote:
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:53:10 -0500 From: T Ingham <magnethead@...17...> To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] mouse wheel
Illustrator uses Ctrl+[, Ctrl+] for Z Ordering.
Anyone with an AZERTY keyboard got any comments? Is that keybinding still usable on non QWERTY keyboards?
I'm torn between wanting to shamelessly pander to Illustrator users or decide if doing it differently would be better enought to mitigate the inconsistancey!
Ho hum.
Later
Alan H.
P.S. I have to admit I'm overly obsessed with keybindings, it is almost a hobby of mine.
participants (3)
-
Alan Horkan -
T Ingham -
Yemu