Would a translator mailing list be an appropriate tool ?
Hi Inkscape developpers
sorry for polluting the dev-ML, especially in the beginning of a release cycle, but i'd like to ask you a question : would a translator mailing list be an appropriate tool ? I guess it may help a little bit, but I'm not sure it would be a decisive tool.
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
Updating strings is quite ok, as strings evolve parallely to feature development. But docs (such as tutorials and keys) can become a very heavy workload to be dealt in a very few days.
I have been very sorry not being able to bring an update of the keys for last release, and i would be very disappointed not being able to offer this for 0.44 release (especially because this release looks like the very best one up to now).
I'm very happy to see that - developpers bring lots of nice features and a stable/portable software - translation is taken care of in the release cycle - documentation is taken care of during the same release cycle I'd be even happier the doc translation was also integrated in the release cycle so that users can get a huge package (software + translation of the software + doc + translated doc + extensions + doc for extensions ...).
Regards,
matiphas
Matiphas <matiphas@...8...> scrisse:
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
Updating strings is quite ok, as strings evolve parallely to feature development. But docs (such as tutorials and keys) can become a very heavy workload to be dealt in a very few days.
As Inkscape translator, I think it would be helpful. I think that now it's time to try to extend the number of supported language anda attract more translators, because many important languages are missing or very outdate.
Regards, matiphas
Cheers, Luca
Okay, since the discussion seems to be tapering off, to summarize it sounds like no one has an issue with there being a translator mailing list.
The next step is to get enough people to voice a commitment to make use of it. We need at least 3-5 people to give a thumb's up in answer to the question, "If an Inkscape translator mailing list is set up, will you participate actively on it?"
Please answer here on this list. As soon as we get enough people, I'll go ahead and set it up.
Thanks, Bryce
On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 04:09:05PM +0200, Luca Bruno wrote:
Matiphas <matiphas@...8...> scrisse:
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
Updating strings is quite ok, as strings evolve parallely to feature development. But docs (such as tutorials and keys) can become a very heavy workload to be dealt in a very few days.
As Inkscape translator, I think it would be helpful. I think that now it's time to try to extend the number of supported language anda attract more translators, because many important languages are missing or very outdate.
Regards, matiphas
Cheers, Luca
-- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Luca Bruno : :' : The Universal O.S. | luca.br(AT)uno.it `. `'` | GPG Key ID: 3BFB9FB3 `- http://www.debian.org | Proud Debian GNU/Linux User
Bryce Harrington <bryce@...961...> writes:
Okay, since the discussion seems to be tapering off, to summarize it sounds like no one has an issue with there being a translator mailing list.
I don't feel unwelcome *here* with translation questions, and I fear such a translator list would be very low-volume, thus easy to forget about. But I can also live with it and will use it if it gets into existence (please someone register it at http://gmane.org - gmane.comp.graphics.inkscape.* from the very beginning), so I abstain.
Cheers, Colin
Hi all
Okay, since the discussion seems to be tapering off, to summarize it sounds like no one has an issue with there being a translator mailing list.
I feel a bit guilty there : since I've launched the ball, i should involve a bit more. Plus I'd like to get some feedback from Arpad.
The next step is to get enough people to voice a commitment to make use of it. We need at least 3-5 people to give a thumb's up in answer to the question, "If an Inkscape translator mailing list is set up, will you participate actively on it?"
I volunteer for animating a translator ML, with the following topics : - where are we ? (what are the translation status ? Which languages need some more commitment...) - where do we (translators) usually face some issues ? (specific vocabulary, synchronization with development...) - get some best practices from the ML and then, write them down on the wiki - share experiences on specific blocking points - take a look at the various tasks, on different levels : (core software strings, tutorials, text docs, web pages...)
Please answer here on this list. As soon as we get enough people, I'll go ahead and set it up.
Regards,
Matiphas
matiphas@...8... scrisse:
I volunteer for animating a translator ML, with the following topics :
- where are we ?
(what are the translation status ? Which languages need some more commitment...)
- where do we (translators) usually face some issues ?
(specific vocabulary, synchronization with development...)
- get some best practices from the ML and then, write them down on
the wiki
- share experiences on specific blocking points
- take a look at the various tasks, on different levels :
(core software strings, tutorials, text docs, web pages...)
I agree... I think that this ML would be appreciated as a starting point for l10n improvement after 0.44 release.
+1 :)
Regards, Matiphas
Cheers, Luca
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:08:49 +0200, <matiphas@...8...> wrote:
- where are we ?
(what are the translation status ? Which languages need some more commitment...)
- where do we (translators) usually face some issues ?
(specific vocabulary, synchronization with development...)
- get some best practices from the ML and then, write them down on the
wiki
There has been a page InkscapeTerminology on the old wiki which would be reused and extended for this purpose. The page on actual wiki ( http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ InkscapeTerminology ) is empty at this moment. I would be probably able to find the original version which I've saved for translation and re-fill the page.
- share experiences on specific blocking points
- take a look at the various tasks, on different levels :
(core software strings, tutorials, text docs, web pages...)
My ideas, as written in my previos mail, are the same or at least very similar so I can not disagree
Please answer here on this list. As soon as we get enough people, I'll go ahead and set it up.
+1 on this
greetings cornelius
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 07:22:48PM +0200, Josef Vybiral wrote:
Please answer here on this list. As soon as we get enough people, I'll go ahead and set it up.
+1 on this
Okay, Matiphas, Luca, and Josef, I think that makes. :-)
I've requested creation of the list. It will take a little while before it is available, but soon you'll be able to subscribe here:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-translator
I'll put out an official announcement once it becomes available.
Bryce
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:08:49PM +0200, matiphas@...8... wrote:
Hi all
Okay, since the discussion seems to be tapering off, to summarize it sounds like no one has an issue with there being a translator mailing list.
I feel a bit guilty there : since I've launched the ball, i should involve a bit more. Plus I'd like to get some feedback from Arpad.
Yeah, I'm surprised Arpad hasn't weighed in here - would someone mind sending him an invite to the list once it's up?
The next step is to get enough people to voice a commitment to make use of it. We need at least 3-5 people to give a thumb's up in answer to the question, "If an Inkscape translator mailing list is set up, will you participate actively on it?"
I volunteer for animating a translator ML, with the following topics :
- where are we ?
(what are the translation status ? Which languages need some more commitment...)
- where do we (translators) usually face some issues ?
(specific vocabulary, synchronization with development...)
- get some best practices from the ML and then, write them down on the wiki
- share experiences on specific blocking points
- take a look at the various tasks, on different levels :
(core software strings, tutorials, text docs, web pages...)
Great topics! Another one that might be worth discussing at some point, is in collaborating with other translation organizations. We'd looked into them in the past (e.g. the GNOME translation team), but the requirements for participating didn't fit with what could be done. Still, we left the door open for possible future interaction. This could possibly be very worthwhile for some of the less common languages, that Inkscape has out of date translations for currently.
Bryce
Yeah, I'm surprised Arpad hasn't weighed in here - would someone mind sending him an invite to the list once it's up?
Last time we exchanges mails, he was quite busy i think. I will warn him.
I volunteer for animating a translator ML, with the following topics :
- where are we ?
(what are the translation status ? Which languages need some more commitment...)
- where do we (translators) usually face some issues ?
(specific vocabulary, synchronization with development...)
- get some best practices from the ML and then, write them down on the wiki
- share experiences on specific blocking points
- take a look at the various tasks, on different levels :
(core software strings, tutorials, text docs, web pages...)
Great topics! Another one that might be worth discussing at some point, is in collaborating with other translation organizations. We'd looked into them in the past (e.g. the GNOME translation team), but the requirements for participating didn't fit with what could be done. Still, we left the door open for possible future interaction. This could possibly be very worthwhile for some of the less common languages, that Inkscape has out of date translations for currently.
Yep, good idea
Thanks for the help bryce
Regards
matiphas
On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:22:25AM +0200, Matiphas wrote:
Hi Inkscape developpers
sorry for polluting the dev-ML, especially in the beginning of a release cycle, but i'd like to ask you a question : would a translator mailing list be an appropriate tool ?
If you guys decide it's appropriate, this can certainly be set up. The one thing we've typically asked when setting up a new mailing list that at least a few people voice a commitment to making use of it.
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
Updating strings is quite ok, as strings evolve parallely to feature development. But docs (such as tutorials and keys) can become a very heavy workload to be dealt in a very few days.
I have been very sorry not being able to bring an update of the keys for last release, and i would be very disappointed not being able to offer this for 0.44 release (especially because this release looks like the very best one up to now).
I'm very happy to see that
- developpers bring lots of nice features and a stable/portable software
- translation is taken care of in the release cycle
- documentation is taken care of during the same release cycle
I'd be even happier the doc translation was also integrated in the release cycle so that users can get a huge package (software + translation of the software + doc + translated doc + extensions + doc for extensions ...).
Good, I'm glad this works out. I remember how tight things can be during the release cycle for getting translations done. Hopefully this release will give a more comfortable process.
Bryce
Hi,
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:22:25 +0200, Matiphas <matiphas@...8...> wrote:
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
Updating strings is quite ok, as strings evolve parallely to feature development. But docs (such as tutorials and keys) can become a very heavy workload to be dealt in a very few days.
I agree that inkscape-translators list would be helpful. It would be good to discuss about meanings of translated strings, to get notifications about major changes in strings/docs or maybe to get notifications about bugs found in translations. Also it could help updating docs in the development cycle as they update(with notifications about that of course ), so updated tutorials would be ready in time of hard freeze. Ad notifications about docs: updates of doc-docbook module could be sent here(translators list) as notifications. If I am not wrong it could be possible.
sincerelly cornelius
-- Josef Vybíral a.k.a. cornelius -------------------------------- gimp.cz's second editor in chief web: http://cornelius.gimp.cz mail: cornelius@...1135... jabber: cornelius@...1136...>
matiphas
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&da... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Josef Vybiral wrote:
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:05:21 +0200 From: Josef Vybiral <newsgroups@...1135...> To: inkscape-devel@...6... Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Would a translator mailing list be an appropriate tool ?
Hi,
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:22:25 +0200, Matiphas <matiphas@...8...> wrote:
My main issue with translations is the fact that the software, strings and docs undergo the most important changes only a few days before the release and this does not give a lot of time to translators.
I agree that inkscape-translators list would be helpful. It would be good to discuss about meanings of translated strings,
A translators list is probably a good idea but it is important that translators tell the developers about difficult to translate strings rather than doing things the hard way.
Many people use English as a second language and also use software through English so it is very important the English be crystal clear. (Differences between British and American should be avoided if a suitalbe "interenational english" phrase works for both, and so only smaller spelling issues like color/colour should ever need to be translated.) Feedback from translators can be very important.
So if you do create a list I hope it will encourage more translators to participate and not in any way discourage them from mailing this list when there are problems. I am always impressed by the difficult work translators do.
Best of luck
The latest graphic for 'raise selection to top (home)' doesn't render properly on Mac. At SVN revision 11410.
On Apr 25, 2006, at 2:13 PM, Andrew Wilson wrote:
The latest graphic for 'raise selection to top (home)' doesn't render properly on Mac. At SVN revision 11410.
Yup.
Broken for me here too.
On Apr 25, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Jon A. Cruz wrote:
On Apr 25, 2006, at 2:13 PM, Andrew Wilson wrote:
The latest graphic for 'raise selection to top (home)' doesn't render properly on Mac. At SVN revision 11410.
Yup.
Broken for me here too.
Oops. I spoke too soon.
It's not broken. That's showing exactly as it should. It's just that the bounding box for that icon got set too tall, and is covering both the 'move to top' and 'move to bottom' images.
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:32:04 +0200, Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Josef Vybiral wrote:
I agree that inkscape-translators list would be helpful. It would be good to discuss about meanings of translated strings,
A translators list is probably a good idea but it is important that translators tell the developers about difficult to translate strings rather than doing things the hard way.
Many people use English as a second language and also use software through English so it is very important the English be crystal clear. (Differences between British and American should be avoided if a suitalbe "interenational english" phrase works for both, and so only smaller spelling issues like color/colour should ever need to be translated.) Feedback from translators can be very important.
Yes, if the string in English is clear then the translation is perfect and simple(in the most of cases). This kind of feedback and discussions about used terms would be good to clarify the UI even for users without any graphics experience before.
I've said "in the most of cases" in previous paragraph because there are exceptions. E.g. "Inset/Outset" terms are examples of clear terms in english but there were some problems to find suitable translation for(in Czech). After consultation with czech GIMP translator we finally decided to use terms which are suitable. This kind of discussion with another translators could be helpful, at least to see what terms/synonyms they have used. ("CW" and "CCW" terms are similar example where the discussion was helpful ;) )
cheers
cornelius
participants (9)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Alan Horkan -
Andrew Wilson -
Bryce Harrington -
Colin Marquardt -
Jon A. Cruz -
Josef Vybiral -
Luca Bruno -
Matiphas