Sorry - to clarify, if it's not obvious - it was the second request that I am interested in. I don't know enough yet about the inkscape internals to help with any core code.

Thanks, Craig

On 21 August 2010 10:09, Craig Marshall <craig9@...400...> wrote:

I'd be interested in producing a custom extension for this problem. My way of approaching the problem might be slightly different from yours though (depending on whether inkscape stores the circle centrepoints and radii for a collection of merged circles, if not it might require that the circles are not merged before the extension is installed).

I'm a fairly seasoned programmer, but I'm very new to open source development, though I've been a user of open source software for years. I have made a couple of extensions for inkscape recently.

I don't think work for hire is against the philosophy of Free software or open source at all, if you have an unusual request that no-one else seems to need, then it's not going to write itself. Payment is still the number one way to get people to do things!

If you'd like to, we can continue to talk over private email.

Thanks, Craig

On 21 August 2010 08:52, Drechsel Wolf <edv-e@...2249...> wrote:

...

Hello everybody,

probabely there are lots of thoughts on this, so I'd be grateful for some hints:

I do have some very special wishes on inkscape developement:

# Improving the Mac OS X integration # implement a routine which counts the number of objects surrounded by another object: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/621627

Esp. the first has hardly moved forward during the last year, since I've started watching it. Is there a way of funding a special developement, which obviously does not attract a lot of attention?

Inkscape is free - alternatively I'd to pay 1000s of Euros for a "professional" product - with all its disacvantages. So I'd be happy to donate a number of Euros - and probabely some other people as well

• to pay somebody to get special work done, which would not be done

otherwise.

Is there a mechanism for that? - Could there be one? - Maybe some young person would be interested to earn a small sum, learn and get experienced - and get some work done within a professional environment? - Or is that idea completely against the spirit of open source?

Have a nice weekend!

Wolf

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on the "funding inkscape developement" matter.

I agree for a form of professional support - Inkscape must have paid support at least for future DTP / Logo design / *** customers. With commercial support development speed can be much improved. Also a form of paid support for features on demand should exist.

Excepting speed rendering Inkscape is quite capable for DTP work and for sure he will be until press ready until Inkscape one point zero. I've recently compiled the GSOC code under Ubuntu and I see big speed improvements with Cairo enabled rendering. (Probably with Cairo 1.10 rendering speed will not be a problem anymore).

All in all, professional studios will not use Inkscape without tech-support. That mean they will not use Linux at full potential (just for rendering farms) - because Adobe will never port Creative suite on Linux. Linux world has a big gap on this area. And if Inkscape, GIMP, Scribus - will not accept that the paid technical support is a real need for designers / companies which don't like MS OS, no chance for Linux to become important on desktop.

+1 vote for Inkscape Foundation ;)

2010/8/21 Maximilian Albert <maximilian.albert@...1439...>:

Hi Craig,

...

I'd be interested in producing a custom extension for this problem. My way of approaching the problem might be slightly different from yours though (depending on whether inkscape stores the circle centrepoints and radii for a collection of merged circles, if not it might require that the circles are not merged before the extension is installed).

If I understand you correctly the solution you have in mind would require the outline to be a composition of circles. However, I can imagine many other use cases for this kind of request in slightly different circumstances where the outline is a general path (and the items to be counted may be arbitrary objects). Even though he implementation seems easiest at first if you restrict yourself to circles, I would very much recommend not to make any assumptions to that effect and keep the functionality as generic as possible. Of course it would be overkill to implement a test whether an arbitrary path contains another in your extension code, but have a look at lib2geom [1], the geometry library underlying Inkscape. I haven't checked recently but it might contain functions to test wether one path lies with the boundaries of another (or at least whether a given point lies within a path, which might already be enough for your purposes if you only take the centers of the small red dots into account). If it doesn't, this should definitely be implemented anyway. :) The libary also has Python bindings.

On a different note, instead of counting the items within the outline path directly, it might be better (as in: give more flexibility for other use cases) to provide an easy way to *select* them. See my comments on the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/621627

Hope this helps, Max

[1] http://lib2geom.sourceforge.net/

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I'm sure the lib2geom library will help a great deal. That will save me wondering how to implement cubic bezier curve equations for paths constructed from joined circles!

I agree with everything you say - a general solution is definitely preferred. Also, making the program select the objects within the boundary shouldn't be any more difficult than just counting them (assuming the extension interface or SVG spec offers hooks for defining selections).

You mention that it could also be useful to filter the object types, I agree with that.

You also raise the question, what does it mean for an object to lie inside the path? It can be interpreted many ways as you started to explore:

a) Does the centrepoint of each inner object lie within the zero-width boundary of the outer object? b) Do the inner object's boundary lines lie entirely within the outer object's boundary line? Or: c) You could conceivably even take into account stroke-width as well; a 5px diameter circle might really be a 1px diameter circle with a 4px stroke width. d) ...I'm sure there are more ways of deciding.

I imagine Drechsel has a fairly specific use case in mind.

I see the attraction of creating a very general purpose extension to solve this, but my aim for now would be to come up with a solution that will solve the problem at hand. Clearly, if there are features that would otherwise require substantial rewriting of code or other duplication of effort (i.e. code for searching *all* paths, not just circles, if that's within my abilities), then it makes sense to make the extension do those things the first time round.

However, if there are ideas for even more general features that are not needed for this problem, and, equally importantly, that can also easily be added later (when and if there's a need or desire; e.g. filtering by object type, finer-grained options about where the contained objects lie), then I might leave those for later or for others to implement. I suppose it will depend on my own free time and enthusiasm too. If I still have time and energy left after the main problem is solved, then I may well be interested in writing these extra features. I just don't want to set up expectations for extras at this stage.

Thanks, Craig

On 21 August 2010 10:49, Maximilian Albert <maximilian.albert@...1439...> wrote:

Hi Craig,

...

I'd be interested in producing a custom extension for this problem. My way of approaching the problem might be slightly different from yours though (depending on whether inkscape stores the circle centrepoints and radii for a collection of merged circles, if not it might require that the circles are not merged before the extension is installed).

If I understand you correctly the solution you have in mind would require the outline to be a composition of circles. However, I can imagine many other use cases for this kind of request in slightly different circumstances where the outline is a general path (and the items to be counted may be arbitrary objects). Even though he implementation seems easiest at first if you restrict yourself to circles, I would very much recommend not to make any assumptions to that effect and keep the functionality as generic as possible. Of course it would be overkill to implement a test whether an arbitrary path contains another in your extension code, but have a look at lib2geom [1], the geometry library underlying Inkscape. I haven't checked recently but it might contain functions to test wether one path lies with the boundaries of another (or at least whether a given point lies within a path, which might already be enough for your purposes if you only take the centers of the small red dots into account). If it doesn't, this should definitely be implemented anyway. :) The libary also has Python bindings.

On a different note, instead of counting the items within the outline path directly, it might be better (as in: give more flexibility for other use cases) to provide an easy way to *select* them. See my comments on the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/621627

Hope this helps, Max

[1] http://lib2geom.sourceforge.net/

On 21 August 2010 00:52, Drechsel Wolf <edv-e@...2249...> wrote:

Is there a mechanism for that?

This mailing list can be used to find freelance developers, and www.kickstarter.com can be used to find people to pool money with. I am sure that if you post on mac-centric forums and general graphic design lists (and SVG lists that are not specific to free software) you can find enough users to fund what you want.

There's also the "GNU Herds" webapp for running a kickstarter service on free software :-)

Or is that idea completely against the spirit of open source?

No, free software is about freedom, not price; and there are many businesses that are built around the GPL.

You may find www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html interesting.

Free software = free market :-)

However, speaking only for myself, i am less interested in efforts to port Inkscape to Mac because they don't use OS X and would prefer that people switch to GNU/Linux :-)

-----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Prokoudine [mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...400...] Sent: zondag 22 augustus 2010 18:11 To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] funding inkscape developement

On 8/22/10, Dave Crossland wrote:

...

This mailing list can be used to find freelance developers, and www.kickstarter.com can be used to find people to pool money with.

It looks like we already have some sort of relationship with http://linuxfund.org

...

...

Or is that idea completely against the spirit of open source?

No, free software is about freedom, not price; and there are many businesses that are built around the GPL.

For me, free software is a little bit about not getting payed. But, I am still not familiar the free software community. I think what I like better is that money is donated afterwards to somebody, instead of offering it before writing some code. (such that the money is a reward for doing something you had no idea about getting money for it, instead of the money being a motivation)

From: Alexandre Prokoudine [mailto:alexandre.prokoudine@...400...] Sent: zondag 22 augustus 2010 18:11

There is one tricky thing here, however. Once you have people working for money, it's important to maintain existing community of volunteers who might feel less motivated to work for free when there are people who want to works on things for money. Not many projects have such an experience, and not all projects that have it can call it positive.

After my first shot at the PowerStroke LPE, I received an excited mail from Dave Crossland about whether I was interested in working on it full-time for a while being payed. That got me thinking. Here a list of some of the questions I have, for you to have a peek inside the mind of one developer.

- if I get payed for PowerStroke, will that make me only work on Inkscape for money afterwards?

- how much time should one invest in a payed project? I have to work on Inkscape in my spare time, so 10 hours a week would feel pretty much 'full-time'. But, given a lot of prior experience with Inkscape coding, 10 hours can give big output results. (the current powerstroke took about 12 hours, I'm guessing)

- I'd have to not-do other things, coding for Inkscape instead. How much money would motivate me to work on PowerStroke, instead of, for example, practice guitar or go to friends? And how much money is reasonable to ask? (I have not worked on PowerStroke for a couple of weeks now, how come?)

- If I need advice from others, or ask others to code something for me, or (indirectly) spend some time on the project I am doing, is that fair?

Alexandre:

... GSoC projects are only partly successful, though we got some dedicated programmers from them like Johan, ...

Small correction, I was already working actively on Inkscape before I did my first GSoC. :) Probably 90% of the reason to apply for GSoC was the money.

Once again, this is not to say that we don't need to grow into a commercially successful (or at least self-supporting) project. But first things first: we urgently need to get organized again.

I have absolutely no knowledge of how other open source software projects are organized, and cannot judge on this one.

Ciao, Johan