Hi All,
Some time between revisions 15016 and 15387 there were substantial changes to the two rows of icons at the top (the ones just below the file/edit/view/etc.).
I'm not a fan of the new ones.
1. The new icons are larger than the old ones, which is a waste of space. Possibly not an issue if you are using a huge screen. However, I tend to work on small monitors, and Inkscape already uses up a lot of real estate around the drawing, leaving in some cases (my laptop, for instance) a pretty tiny window showing the drawing. My largest display is 1280 x 1024 and with the new larger icons even at full width the "Move patterns" icon is cut off.
2. The object rotate and mirror icons, which were previously excellent, showing transforms of a dark triangle to a grey one) have been replaced with generic looking fuzzy arrows. The rotate 90 degree icon could be the "undo" icon, or vice versa. Double headed arrows like those used for symmetry operations are more commonly used to indicate either sliding or scaling in the direction indicated. I much (much, MUCH) prefer the older ones.
3. The red handles on the new scissors icon draw my eye. When I look at that row for an icon now my eyes go there first, even when I know that isn't the icon I want. Probably this is because the red handles really stand out when compared to the other icons. Not sure what the proper design term is, but the icons should all have the same "visual weight" to avoid this, and for me the scissors is "heavier".
4. Now that I look more closely, there are size changes on the icons on the left and right too. The image in each icon is the same size, but each is now surrounded by a lot more white space. Again, that is a waste of screen space. If I adjust a copy of 15016 so that the select arrow (top of left column) is in the same place as for a copy of 15387, and the bottoms of the outer windows are in the same place, in the older one the last tool visible is the text icon, whereas in the new one it is only the spiral icon. That is, there are 4 less tools shown in the same space. The same problem applies on the right, where again there are 4 more icons visible in the older version than the new.
Sometimes less is more. For drawing programs like this I want the tools and such to take as little space as possible away from the drawing. These need to be big enough to read, but not any larger than that.
(Note, the older version was running on Windows and the newer one on Linux.)
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
I'm not sure how those changes come about, but you can choose any icon set you like (e.g. to look at Jabier's, see gifs in Release notes for 0.92).
As for the size, you can select one in the preferences. I assume you're using a different prefs file now on Linux? What are they set to?
(maybe missing icons are replaced by system's stock icons? Maybe gtk theme influences minimal distance between icons?)
Regards, Maren
Am 03.01.2017 um 21:52 schrieb mathog:
Hi All,
Some time between revisions 15016 and 15387 there were substantial changes to the two rows of icons at the top (the ones just below the file/edit/view/etc.).
I'm not a fan of the new ones.
- The new icons are larger than the old ones, which is a waste of
space. Possibly not an issue if you are using a huge screen. However, I tend to work on small monitors, and Inkscape already uses up a lot of real estate around the drawing, leaving in some cases (my laptop, for instance) a pretty tiny window showing the drawing. My largest display is 1280 x 1024 and with the new larger icons even at full width the "Move patterns" icon is cut off.
- The object rotate and mirror icons, which were previously excellent,
showing transforms of a dark triangle to a grey one) have been replaced with generic looking fuzzy arrows. The rotate 90 degree icon could be the "undo" icon, or vice versa. Double headed arrows like those used for symmetry operations are more commonly used to indicate either sliding or scaling in the direction indicated. I much (much, MUCH) prefer the older ones.
- The red handles on the new scissors icon draw my eye. When I look
at that row for an icon now my eyes go there first, even when I know that isn't the icon I want. Probably this is because the red handles really stand out when compared to the other icons. Not sure what the proper design term is, but the icons should all have the same "visual weight" to avoid this, and for me the scissors is "heavier".
- Now that I look more closely, there are size changes on the icons on
the left and right too. The image in each icon is the same size, but each is now surrounded by a lot more white space. Again, that is a waste of screen space. If I adjust a copy of 15016 so that the select arrow (top of left column) is in the same place as for a copy of 15387, and the bottoms of the outer windows are in the same place, in the older one the last tool visible is the text icon, whereas in the new one it is only the spiral icon. That is, there are 4 less tools shown in the same space. The same problem applies on the right, where again there are 4 more icons visible in the older version than the new.
Sometimes less is more. For drawing programs like this I want the tools and such to take as little space as possible away from the drawing. These need to be big enough to read, but not any larger than that.
(Note, the older version was running on Windows and the newer one on Linux.)
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
I've just downloaded 0.92 (technically not released yet, but is in the gallery) r15299, and I'm on Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit. All the icons looks the same as they always have, for me.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: mathog Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 1:52 PM To: Inkscape Developers Subject: [Inkscape-devel] Recent icon changes
Hi All,
Some time between revisions 15016 and 15387 there were substantial changes to the two rows of icons at the top (the ones just below the file/edit/view/etc.).
I'm not a fan of the new ones.
1. The new icons are larger than the old ones, which is a waste of space. Possibly not an issue if you are using a huge screen. However, I tend to work on small monitors, and Inkscape already uses up a lot of real estate around the drawing, leaving in some cases (my laptop, for instance) a pretty tiny window showing the drawing. My largest display is 1280 x 1024 and with the new larger icons even at full width the "Move patterns" icon is cut off.
2. The object rotate and mirror icons, which were previously excellent, showing transforms of a dark triangle to a grey one) have been replaced with generic looking fuzzy arrows. The rotate 90 degree icon could be the "undo" icon, or vice versa. Double headed arrows like those used for symmetry operations are more commonly used to indicate either sliding or scaling in the direction indicated. I much (much, MUCH) prefer the older ones.
3. The red handles on the new scissors icon draw my eye. When I look at that row for an icon now my eyes go there first, even when I know that isn't the icon I want. Probably this is because the red handles really stand out when compared to the other icons. Not sure what the proper design term is, but the icons should all have the same "visual weight" to avoid this, and for me the scissors is "heavier".
4. Now that I look more closely, there are size changes on the icons on the left and right too. The image in each icon is the same size, but each is now surrounded by a lot more white space. Again, that is a waste of screen space. If I adjust a copy of 15016 so that the select arrow (top of left column) is in the same place as for a copy of 15387, and the bottoms of the outer windows are in the same place, in the older one the last tool visible is the text icon, whereas in the new one it is only the spiral icon. That is, there are 4 less tools shown in the same space. The same problem applies on the right, where again there are 4 more icons visible in the older version than the new.
Sometimes less is more. For drawing programs like this I want the tools and such to take as little space as possible away from the drawing. These need to be big enough to read, but not any larger than that.
(Note, the older version was running on Windows and the newer one on Linux.)
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On 03-Jan-2017 14:36, brynn wrote:
I've just downloaded 0.92 (technically not released yet, but is in the gallery) r15299, and I'm on Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit. All the icons looks the same as they always have, for me.
I'm running out of binaries to test!
The Inkscape that came with Ubuntu (0.48.4 r9939), on the same system as the one built from trunk, has for the most part the same smaller icons like r15016 on Windows. The only place I see a difference is for the rotate/flip icons which are the arrows as in the newer version (albeit smaller, like the other icons). The scissors, for instance, do not have the red handles. Looking in
/usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg
both of these files have the original rotate/flip icons and I don't even see the arrows which replace them in the present GUI. Come to think of it, I cannot find in those files the "cut" (scissors), "print", or "download" icons. Where do those come from???
When the application starts (built from trunk, on linux) it logs:
** (inkscape:22539): WARNING **: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-v73QPx8Gsw: Connection refused sp_main_gui: Cannot find default style file: (/usr/local/share/inkscape/ui/style.css) Unable to find: DialogGridArrange
perhaps that has something to do with it?
Thanks,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
Am 04.01.2017 um 00:11 schrieb mathog:
On 03-Jan-2017 14:36, brynn wrote:
I've just downloaded 0.92 (technically not released yet, but is in the gallery) r15299, and I'm on Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit. All the icons looks the same as they always have, for me.
I'm running out of binaries to test!
The Inkscape that came with Ubuntu (0.48.4 r9939), on the same system as the one built from trunk, has for the most part the same smaller icons like r15016 on Windows. The only place I see a difference is for the rotate/flip icons which are the arrows as in the newer version (albeit smaller, like the other icons). The scissors, for instance, do not have the red handles. Looking in
/usr/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons/icons.svg
both of these files have the original rotate/flip icons and I don't even see the arrows which replace them in the present GUI. Come to think of it, I cannot find in those files the "cut" (scissors), "print", or "download" icons. Where do those come from???
- Your operating system / theme, I believe, but others will know more.
Some icon sets, however, include all of them, and for me, it appears to override the system icons. They all fit in seamlessly.
In the bug reports, there must be some more info. I seem to remember this has even been fixed for 0.92, but not sure, as I'm using my own icon set and wouldn't notice... :/
Maren
When the application starts (built from trunk, on linux) it logs:
** (inkscape:22539): WARNING **: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-v73QPx8Gsw: Connection refused sp_main_gui: Cannot find default style file: (/usr/local/share/inkscape/ui/style.css) Unable to find: DialogGridArrange
perhaps that has something to do with it?
Thanks,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
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start inkscape edit-> preferences -> Interface
on both the Windows and Linux systems the default was:
toolbox icon size: large control bar icon size: small secondary toolbar icons size: small
Changing the "toolbox icon size" also to small makes the icons smaller in both cases, but on Linux the spacing is still large and changes very little. For instance, the rectangle icon is 5.5 mm wide in a 14mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to thin grey line separating the ruler)with the original settings and 4.5mm wide in a 12mm wide box with all small. For r15016 on windows that same icon with the original settings is 5.5m wide in an 11mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to closest part of the ruler) and 4.0mm wide in a 10mm wide box with all small. For all small, the space between the bottom of the rectangle draw icon and the 3d box draw icon is 2.5mm on Windows and 5mm on Linux.
This really needs a picture to show how different these look:
http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/pickup/inkscape_icon_size_spacing.png
This shows r15016 on windows (upper left) and r15387 (lower right) one on top of the other. You can see that the icon spacing is very different with a lot of wasted space in the Linux version. The icon spacing in r9939 (the Ubuntu distributed one) is very close to the Windows version and isn't shown.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
Looking on very old inkscape (0.49) I see this online
https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/108911244660285152681/57960846005319400... Note the flip/rotate icons
suggests that the icons have been replaced somehow on your machine with a (possibly) GTK icon set...?
My win64 0.92 - vanilla install shows same as always icons.
On 1/4/2017 12:55 PM, mathog wrote:
start inkscape edit-> preferences -> Interface
on both the Windows and Linux systems the default was:
toolbox icon size: large control bar icon size: small secondary toolbar icons size: smallChanging the "toolbox icon size" also to small makes the icons smaller in both cases, but on Linux the spacing is still large and changes very little. For instance, the rectangle icon is 5.5 mm wide in a 14mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to thin grey line separating the ruler)with the original settings and 4.5mm wide in a 12mm wide box with all small. For r15016 on windows that same icon with the original settings is 5.5m wide in an 11mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to closest part of the ruler) and 4.0mm wide in a 10mm wide box with all small. For all small, the space between the bottom of the rectangle draw icon and the 3d box draw icon is 2.5mm on Windows and 5mm on Linux.
This really needs a picture to show how different these look:
http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/pickup/inkscape_icon_size_spacing.pngThis shows r15016 on windows (upper left) and r15387 (lower right) one on top of the other. You can see that the icon spacing is very different with a lot of wasted space in the Linux version. The icon spacing in r9939 (the Ubuntu distributed one) is very close to the Windows version and isn't shown.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
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No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7996 / Virus Database: 4749/13700 - Release Date: 01/03/17
Yes, those icons do look bad! It must be something about your system. I know in Linux, it's relatively easy to change the theme and/or icons. It's what I've heard, but I don't know exactly how.
Maybe you should wait for the final release (which I don't think the versions uploaded in the gallery today are the final releases)? Then if the icons are still not right, developers can help to sort it out?
Just a thought :-)
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: mathog Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:55 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Recent icon changes
start inkscape edit-> preferences -> Interface
on both the Windows and Linux systems the default was:
toolbox icon size: large control bar icon size: small secondary toolbar icons size: small
Changing the "toolbox icon size" also to small makes the icons smaller in both cases, but on Linux the spacing is still large and changes very little. For instance, the rectangle icon is 5.5 mm wide in a 14mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to thin grey line separating the ruler)with the original settings and 4.5mm wide in a 12mm wide box with all small. For r15016 on windows that same icon with the original settings is 5.5m wide in an 11mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to closest part of the ruler) and 4.0mm wide in a 10mm wide box with all small. For all small, the space between the bottom of the rectangle draw icon and the 3d box draw icon is 2.5mm on Windows and 5mm on Linux.
This really needs a picture to show how different these look:
http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/pickup/inkscape_icon_size_spacing.png
This shows r15016 on windows (upper left) and r15387 (lower right) one on top of the other. You can see that the icon spacing is very different with a lot of wasted space in the Linux version. The icon spacing in r9939 (the Ubuntu distributed one) is very close to the Windows version and isn't shown.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:44:48PM -0700, brynn wrote:
Yes, those icons do look bad! It must be something about your system. I know in Linux, it's relatively easy to change the theme and/or icons. It's what I've heard, but I don't know exactly how.
Maybe you should wait for the final release (which I don't think the versions uploaded in the gallery today are the final releases)?
Actually they are :-)
Then if the icons are still not right, developers can help to sort it out?
Just a thought :-)
All best,, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: mathog Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:55 PM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Recent icon changes
start inkscape edit-> preferences -> Interface
on both the Windows and Linux systems the default was:
toolbox icon size: large control bar icon size: small secondary toolbar icons size: small
Changing the "toolbox icon size" also to small makes the icons smaller in both cases, but on Linux the spacing is still large and changes very little. For instance, the rectangle icon is 5.5 mm wide in a 14mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to thin grey line separating the ruler)with the original settings and 4.5mm wide in a 12mm wide box with all small. For r15016 on windows that same icon with the original settings is 5.5m wide in an 11mm wide box (inner edge of outer frame to closest part of the ruler) and 4.0mm wide in a 10mm wide box with all small. For all small, the space between the bottom of the rectangle draw icon and the 3d box draw icon is 2.5mm on Windows and 5mm on Linux.
This really needs a picture to show how different these look:
http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/pickup/inkscape_icon_size_spacing.pngThis shows r15016 on windows (upper left) and r15387 (lower right) one on top of the other. You can see that the icon spacing is very different with a lot of wasted space in the Linux version. The icon spacing in r9939 (the Ubuntu distributed one) is very close to the Windows version and isn't shown.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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On 03-Jan-2017 21:44, brynn wrote:
Yes, those icons do look bad! It must be something about your system. I know in Linux, it's relatively easy to change the theme and/or icons. It's what I've heard, but I don't know exactly how.
This is Xubuntu. I went looking for these icons (running as root)...
The red handled scissors seem to be from here:
/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/actions/24/gtk-cut.png
and the awful rotate and flip icons from directory
/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/actions/symbolic
and these files
object-flip-horizontal-symbolic.svg object-flip-vertical-symbolic.svg object-rotate-left-symbolic.svg object-rotate-right-symbolic.svg
The icons could be from some other Ubuntu supplied theme with similar graphics.
Under preferences the "icon theme" window shows:
root/.local/share/icons /root/.icons /usr/local/share/icons /usr/share/icons /usr/local/share/pixmaps /usr/share/pixmaps /root/.local/share/inkscape/icons /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons /usr/share/inkscape/icons /root/.config/inkscape/icons /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons /usr/local/share/icons
(Why is /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons listed twice? Where does this come from???)
Assuming this list is searched in order, the /usr/share/icons would be used before /usr/share/inkscape/icons. Unfortunately the list doesn't seem to be editable.
There was no /root/.icons so one was created and the contents of /usr/local/share/inkscape/icons copied into it. Inkscape was restarted and it made no difference, same rotate/flip icons as before.
None of this addresses the icon size issue, which I assume is unrelated since it affects icons from the inkscape icons.svg and those from the OS equally.
Guess I will file this as a bug report and see what happens.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
participants (5)
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