Hi there fellas! How would you feel about dropping the dropshadow for the document canvas border? It's visually distracting for small icons. While I'd like to have a very light outline to see where the edge is, I don't like the border taking too much attention away from the actual artwork and that's what happens thanks to its non-symmetric look.
cheers
Seconded, Just change the default template to not include a shadow. It was easy to remove in the icon templates I use but im sure other users would appreciate it aswell.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:48:44 +0100, Jakub Steiner <jimmac@...659...> wrote:
Hi there fellas! How would you feel about dropping the dropshadow for the document canvas border? It's visually distracting for small icons. While I'd like to have a very light outline to see where the edge is, I don't like the border taking too much attention away from the actual artwork and that's what happens thanks to its non-symmetric look.
cheers
-- Jakub Steiner <jimmac@...659...> Novell, Inc.
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On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 00:48 +0100, Jakub Steiner wrote:
Hi there fellas! How would you feel about dropping the dropshadow for the document canvas border? It's visually distracting for small icons. While I'd like to have a very light outline to see where the edge is, I don't like the border taking too much attention away from the actual artwork and that's what happens thanks to its non-symmetric look.
cheers
I understand this makes sense for drawing icons, but it doesn't for creating flyers or posters (let it only be drafts). As for now you cannot drop just the shadow in the document properties, only the whole frame. That means shadow and frame should be independent from one each other and I'll agree. If they aren't, removing the shadow will leave you with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
David
David Christian Berg wrote:
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 00:48 +0100, Jakub Steiner wrote:
Hi there fellas! How would you feel about dropping the dropshadow for the document canvas border? It's visually distracting for small icons. While I'd like to have a very light outline to see where the edge is, I don't like the border taking too much attention away from the actual artwork and that's what happens thanks to its non-symmetric look.
cheers
I understand this makes sense for drawing icons, but it doesn't for creating flyers or posters (let it only be drafts). As for now you cannot drop just the shadow in the document properties, only the whole frame. That means shadow and frame should be independent from one each other and I'll agree. If they aren't, removing the shadow will leave you with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
No, you can change the offset of the shadow to 0 (zero) so that there is no shadow, in the preferences xml. I just added this preference to my inkscape preferences GUI and I'll commit it here b4 the end of the day. I used to shut this off and previously had been overruled on removing the shadow. I personally find it annoying, but others might like it...
Jon
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On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 13:19 +0100, David Christian Berg wrote:
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 00:48 +0100, Jakub Steiner wrote:
Hi there fellas! How would you feel about dropping the dropshadow for the document canvas border? It's visually distracting for small icons. While I'd like to have a very light outline to see where the edge is, I don't like the border taking too much attention away from the actual artwork and that's what happens thanks to its non-symmetric look.
cheers
I understand this makes sense for drawing icons, but it doesn't for creating flyers or posters (let it only be drafts). As for now you cannot drop just the shadow in the document properties, only the whole frame. That means shadow and frame should be independent from one each other and I'll agree. If they aren't, removing the shadow will leave you with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
Can you explain why the shadow is important? To me this is another fine example how to pollute preferences making it hard to find the important ones.
cheers
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 04:55 -0800, Jon Phillips wrote:
No, you can change the offset of the shadow to 0 (zero) so that there is no shadow, in the preferences xml. I just added this preference to my inkscape preferences GUI and I'll commit it here b4 the end of the day. I used to shut this off and previously had been overruled on removing the shadow. I personally find it annoying, but others might like it...
This is a good approach. I like how GIMP puts the "advanced" (mostly crack, really ;) preferences and options to the rc files and doesn't expose them in the GUI. It makes it easier to find the common options while not really removing the configurability.
On the other hand a lot of hackers prefer to add options when they should have made a decision really. So having sane defaults shoudln't be underestimated either.
cheers
P.S. GNOME has the gconf-editor for that sort of stuff, but I guess depending on gconf isn't such a good idea for a multiplatform app.
with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
Can you explain why the shadow is important? To me this is another fine example how to pollute preferences making it hard to find the important ones.
hmm, I'm not sure, I just think for publications it gives you a better idea of how it's gonna look like once printed.
David
On Sunday 20 February 2005 18:35, Jakub Steiner wrote:
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 04:55 -0800, Jon Phillips wrote:
No, you can change the offset of the shadow to 0 (zero) so that there is no shadow, in the preferences xml. I just added this preference to my inkscape preferences GUI and I'll commit it here b4 the end of the day. I used to shut this off and previously had been overruled on removing the shadow. I personally find it annoying, but others might like it...
This is a good approach. I like how GIMP puts the "advanced" (mostly crack, really ;) preferences and options to the rc files and doesn't expose them in the GUI. It makes it easier to find the common options while not really removing the configurability.
This is also the reason many people avoid Gnome. The dumbing down of the interface in the various config areas - just to then expose a worse than regedit interface in gconf. Meh!
Craig Scribus
It's just a matter of feel. For me and I think others, it does not feel right without the shadow. Of course there's little practical use in it being there, but neither there's any practical justification for removing it - it's also a matter of feel. Therefore I propose to add a user setting and be done with it.
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:41:45 +0100, David Christian Berg <david@...407...> wrote:
with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
Can you explain why the shadow is important? To me this is another fine example how to pollute preferences making it hard to find the important ones.
hmm, I'm not sure, I just think for publications it gives you a better idea of how it's gonna look like once printed.
David
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David Christian Berg wrote:
with no way to reenvoke it -- and I want my shadow :)
Can you explain why the shadow is important? To me this is another fine example how to pollute preferences making it hard to find the important ones.
hmm, I'm not sure, I just think for publications it gives you a better idea of how it's gonna look like once printed.
David
Something that I sometimes had felt the urge for is to only show the stuff in the drawing area, I belive InDesign has this functionality. Great when drawing stuff that must be clipped in the final product. That combined with no borders/shadow might be something to consither. Might call it preview mode or something. Just an idea. - Andreas Nilsson
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 18:47 +0100, Craig Bradney wrote:
This is also the reason many people avoid Gnome. The dumbing down of the interface in the various config areas - just to then expose a worse than regedit interface in gconf. Meh!
That's why there is "advanced setting" gui tools such as Powertools on windows or Gnome powertools. I understand there is people who like to spend a lot of time tweaking stuff (I used to be one of them), but I would think most people just want to get stuff done.
I have been in your phase. I've been loving the fact I can tweak an application so that it behaves exactly how I like it. I felt "empowered". This doesn't come for free though. It costs complexity (more option combinations), maintanability (more code paths), stability (impossible to test all combinations), usability (application appears more complex), support (you cannot really help someone with all these option combinations).
As a developer, even if you think configurability is a good thing, DO TRY TO COME UP WITH DECISIONS. Pick the right defaults. Those, that will work for most of your user. For your TARGET AUDIENCE. Adding an option toggle just because there's more ways to do something and "you can always stuff it up in the preferences" will end up in a miserable interface.
Good read: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html http://ometer.com/free-software-ui.html
cheers
Something that I sometimes had felt the urge for is to only show the stuff in the drawing area, I belive InDesign has this functionality. Great when drawing stuff that must be clipped in the final product. That combined with no borders/shadow might be something to consither. Might call it preview mode or something. Just an idea.
- Andreas Nilsson
I'm not sure, if InDesign has it, but it is definitely a real good idea! Should be in the view menu, to easily be able to toggle it.
David
On Sunday 20 February 2005 19:13, Jakub Steiner wrote:
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 18:47 +0100, Craig Bradney wrote:
This is also the reason many people avoid Gnome. The dumbing down of the interface in the various config areas - just to then expose a worse than regedit interface in gconf. Meh!
That's why there is "advanced setting" gui tools such as Powertools on windows or Gnome powertools. I understand there is people who like to spend a lot of time tweaking stuff (I used to be one of them), but I would think most people just want to get stuff done.
I have been in your phase. I've been loving the fact I can tweak an application so that it behaves exactly how I like it. I felt "empowered". This doesn't come for free though. It costs complexity (more option combinations), maintanability (more code paths), stability (impossible to test all combinations), usability (application appears more complex), support (you cannot really help someone with all these option combinations).
My phase.. has lasted well over 15 years :) hehe.
However, remember the users out there. They DO NOT want to go to the console/text editor and edit an rc or xml file manually. They also dont wish to run an abomination like regedit or gconf. Exposing the users in the "right way" to the configuration is more important than development time.
As a developer, even if you think configurability is a good thing, DO TRY TO COME UP WITH DECISIONS. Pick the right defaults. Those, that will work for most of your user. For your TARGET AUDIENCE. Adding an option toggle just because there's more ways to do something and "you can always stuff it up in the preferences" will end up in a miserable interface.
Of course...
cya Craig
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 19:27 +0100, David Christian Berg wrote:
Something that I sometimes had felt the urge for is to only show the stuff in the drawing area, I belive InDesign has this functionality. Great when drawing stuff that must be clipped in the final product. That combined with no borders/shadow might be something to consither. Might call it preview mode or something. Just an idea.
- Andreas Nilsson
I'm not sure, if InDesign has it, but it is definitely a real good idea! Should be in the view menu, to easily be able to toggle it.
David
so maybe: shadow when clipped and not shadow when not clipped.... that would make sense and therefore is a good default saving more options.
David Christian Berg wrote:
On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 19:27 +0100, David Christian Berg wrote:
Something that I sometimes had felt the urge for is to only show the stuff in the drawing area, I belive InDesign has this functionality. Great when drawing stuff that must be clipped in the final product. That combined with no borders/shadow might be something to consither. Might call it preview mode or something. Just an idea.
- Andreas Nilsson
I'm not sure, if InDesign has it, but it is definitely a real good idea! Should be in the view menu, to easily be able to toggle it.
David
so maybe: shadow when clipped and not shadow when not clipped.... that would make sense and therefore is a good default saving more options.
I think I had just the opposite picture in my head. How silly. :) I don't know why really, maybe something to do with "How will the picture look like when I have printed it out on paper" or something like that. Well, nothing important really. I can live with it both ways. - Andreas Nilsson
I think I had just the opposite picture in my head. How silly. :) I don't know why really, maybe something to do with "How will the picture look like when I have printed it out on paper" or something like that.
Print Preview perhaps? [1]
- Alan
[1] Always avoid alliteration and acronyms, for good writing style.
participants (8)
-
Alan Horkan -
Andreas Nilsson -
Andy Fitzsimon -
bulia byak -
Craig Bradney -
David Christian Berg -
Jakub Steiner -
Jon Phillips