Inkscape Mailing List Migration
Hi Devs,
In the process of moving away from sourceforge, we have OSOUL on stand by to create replacement mailing lists for us.
In order to do this, we need archives. Of course this would create a forking point for each of the lists.
The process works like this:
* Get the admins on sourceforge give me admin privilages to all existing mailing lists. * A script to take subscriber lists and archive mboxes out is prepared. * The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join irc for some immediate actions. * Once the new list is online, the old one is disabled and a message is sent out to everyone on the list. * A new message is sent out on the new list.
Does this make sense? Do you have any ideas?
Martin,
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 05:18:00PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Hi Devs,
In the process of moving away from sourceforge, we have OSOUL on stand by to create replacement mailing lists for us.
This is perhaps coming out of the blue for some folks, so some background:
Inkscape started on SourceForge but we basically outgrew it, and started migrating things off of it. Years ago we moved off it for SVN (to BZR), and for bug tracking (to Launchpad). As part of the 0.91 release we finally migrated off of it for file hosting/mirroring. Mailing lists is really the last major feature we need migrated.
From a user point of view, the most notable change will be the the
mailing list address itself. It'll still be mailman-based, and we'll still provide the same types of lists (maybe we'll drop/merge a few of the lesser used lists). Some benefits we aim to see from this transition:
* Better mail archives * More reliably service * No advertising blurbs appended to our emails * Better mailing list administration
Today Martin and I noticed we were both working on this problem from opposite ends - me from the SF list administrator POV wondering where we might move to, and him from a OSUOSL mailman hosting POV wondering about the SF list administrator side of things. We compared notes and realized we appear have everything we need to pull the trigger on this.
Before we do so, I'd like to open this to comment in case anyone has concerns, good ideas, or just a spare +1. Comments?
In order to do this, we need archives. Of course this would create a forking point for each of the lists.
The process works like this:
- Get the admins on sourceforge give me admin privilages to all
existing mailing lists.
I've made you an admin on SF.
Administration on SF is kinda clunky. Each list has an administrative password set by whomever set up that list. I don't actually know what the passwords are for all the lists, just the handful I actually moderate. There is an adminstrative interface for forcing a password reset on the lists:
https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/admin/mailman/
Be aware that if you use this, then anyone currently moderating the given list is not going to be able to continue to do so, unless you give them the new password.
- A script to take subscriber lists and archive mboxes out is prepared.
A plain list of subscribers can be taken from links on the above url. Unfortunately this doesn't include any of their settings (e.g. 'no-mail', 'digest-only', etc.) Not sure there's a way to get that info other than through mailman. Did I mention the clunkiness?
This documents how to get the mboxes:
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Mailing%20List%20Archives/
- The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join irc
for some immediate actions.
Elaborate?
- Once the new list is online, the old one is disabled and a message is
sent out to everyone on the list.
That sounds fine, but as a 0th send an RFC email to each list ahead of time explaining that the list is being migrated, yada yada. You can repurpose the background info I wrote above. Also provide a contact address for raising concerns or suggestions. Give it at least a day or two before the changeover.
One thing to consider is if rather than a hard shut-off of the old list, if we set them to bounce emails to the new list instead of delivering them to subscribers. We could leave the forward set for a month or two even (we wouldn't want it set up that way permanently, cause of spam.)
- A new message is sent out on the new list.
Does this make sense? Do you have any ideas?
Martin,
Bryce
+1, no more advertising, yay!
On a second note, some experience, the linux-wpan mailing list (kernel dev) is new and migrated from some other mailing list the first of august last year. Both mailing lists continues to work as normal without forwarding but as soon as someone sends an email to the old one at least 1 or 2 reply with a note that it's an old mailing list and points the original sender in the right direction. This makes it possible to include both mailing lists in a reply and gently introduce everyone to the new mailing list. Though, I don't support keeping the old mailing list open for more than 3 months or so. -- Christoffer Holmstedt
2015-02-19 1:32 GMT+01:00 Bryce Harrington <bryce@...961...>:
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 05:18:00PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Hi Devs,
In the process of moving away from sourceforge, we have OSOUL on stand by to create replacement mailing lists for us.
This is perhaps coming out of the blue for some folks, so some background:
Inkscape started on SourceForge but we basically outgrew it, and started migrating things off of it. Years ago we moved off it for SVN (to BZR), and for bug tracking (to Launchpad). As part of the 0.91 release we finally migrated off of it for file hosting/mirroring. Mailing lists is really the last major feature we need migrated.
From a user point of view, the most notable change will be the the
mailing list address itself. It'll still be mailman-based, and we'll still provide the same types of lists (maybe we'll drop/merge a few of the lesser used lists). Some benefits we aim to see from this transition:
- Better mail archives
- More reliably service
- No advertising blurbs appended to our emails
- Better mailing list administration
Today Martin and I noticed we were both working on this problem from opposite ends - me from the SF list administrator POV wondering where we might move to, and him from a OSUOSL mailman hosting POV wondering about the SF list administrator side of things. We compared notes and realized we appear have everything we need to pull the trigger on this.
Before we do so, I'd like to open this to comment in case anyone has concerns, good ideas, or just a spare +1. Comments?
In order to do this, we need archives. Of course this would create a forking point for each of the lists.
The process works like this:
- Get the admins on sourceforge give me admin privilages to all
existing mailing lists.
I've made you an admin on SF.
Administration on SF is kinda clunky. Each list has an administrative password set by whomever set up that list. I don't actually know what the passwords are for all the lists, just the handful I actually moderate. There is an adminstrative interface for forcing a password reset on the lists:
https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/admin/mailman/
Be aware that if you use this, then anyone currently moderating the given list is not going to be able to continue to do so, unless you give them the new password.
- A script to take subscriber lists and archive mboxes out is prepared.
A plain list of subscribers can be taken from links on the above url. Unfortunately this doesn't include any of their settings (e.g. 'no-mail', 'digest-only', etc.) Not sure there's a way to get that info other than through mailman. Did I mention the clunkiness?
This documents how to get the mboxes:
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Mailing%20List%20Archives/
- The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join irc
for some immediate actions.
Elaborate?
- Once the new list is online, the old one is disabled and a message is
sent out to everyone on the list.
That sounds fine, but as a 0th send an RFC email to each list ahead of time explaining that the list is being migrated, yada yada. You can repurpose the background info I wrote above. Also provide a contact address for raising concerns or suggestions. Give it at least a day or two before the changeover.
One thing to consider is if rather than a hard shut-off of the old list, if we set them to bounce emails to the new list instead of delivering them to subscribers. We could leave the forward set for a month or two even (we wouldn't want it set up that way permanently, cause of spam.)
- A new message is sent out on the new list.
Does this make sense? Do you have any ideas?
Martin,
Bryce
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 16:32 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
- The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join
irc for some immediate actions.
Elaborate?
If we migrate over the mbox, then we want to make sure the setup is performed as close to archive point as possible to minimise archive misses.
The month long redirect makes sense, that'll certainly help. But I'd rather not have a week of ml downtime waiting for OSOUL to reply to a ticket. So before pressing any trigger our side, I'd like to know they're there right now and ready to go their end too.
Martin,
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 01:31:32AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 16:32 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
- The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join
irc for some immediate actions.
Elaborate?
If we migrate over the mbox, then we want to make sure the setup is performed as close to archive point as possible to minimise archive misses.
Ah, right of course.
The month long redirect makes sense, that'll certainly help. But I'd rather not have a week of ml downtime waiting for OSOUL to reply to a ticket. So before pressing any trigger our side, I'd like to know they're there right now and ready to go their end too.
*Nod* Makes sense and I agree.
Is it possible to set things up such that everything is 100% finished on their end before we flip the switch on ours? Or is there more to it than that?
Bryce
Can we get details of addresses for the new lists before they go live so those of us with filters in place can update them? On 19 Feb 2015 00:33, "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 05:18:00PM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Hi Devs,
In the process of moving away from sourceforge, we have OSOUL on stand by to create replacement mailing lists for us.
This is perhaps coming out of the blue for some folks, so some background:
Inkscape started on SourceForge but we basically outgrew it, and started migrating things off of it. Years ago we moved off it for SVN (to BZR), and for bug tracking (to Launchpad). As part of the 0.91 release we finally migrated off of it for file hosting/mirroring. Mailing lists is really the last major feature we need migrated.
From a user point of view, the most notable change will be the the
mailing list address itself. It'll still be mailman-based, and we'll still provide the same types of lists (maybe we'll drop/merge a few of the lesser used lists). Some benefits we aim to see from this transition:
- Better mail archives
- More reliably service
- No advertising blurbs appended to our emails
- Better mailing list administration
Today Martin and I noticed we were both working on this problem from opposite ends - me from the SF list administrator POV wondering where we might move to, and him from a OSUOSL mailman hosting POV wondering about the SF list administrator side of things. We compared notes and realized we appear have everything we need to pull the trigger on this.
Before we do so, I'd like to open this to comment in case anyone has concerns, good ideas, or just a spare +1. Comments?
In order to do this, we need archives. Of course this would create a forking point for each of the lists.
The process works like this:
- Get the admins on sourceforge give me admin privilages to all
existing mailing lists.
I've made you an admin on SF.
Administration on SF is kinda clunky. Each list has an administrative password set by whomever set up that list. I don't actually know what the passwords are for all the lists, just the handful I actually moderate. There is an adminstrative interface for forcing a password reset on the lists:
https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/admin/mailman/
Be aware that if you use this, then anyone currently moderating the given list is not going to be able to continue to do so, unless you give them the new password.
- A script to take subscriber lists and archive mboxes out is prepared.
A plain list of subscribers can be taken from links on the above url. Unfortunately this doesn't include any of their settings (e.g. 'no-mail', 'digest-only', etc.) Not sure there's a way to get that info other than through mailman. Did I mention the clunkiness?
This documents how to get the mboxes:
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Mailing%20List%20Archives/
- The OSOUL ticket for making mailing lists requires them to join irc
for some immediate actions.
Elaborate?
- Once the new list is online, the old one is disabled and a message is
sent out to everyone on the list.
That sounds fine, but as a 0th send an RFC email to each list ahead of time explaining that the list is being migrated, yada yada. You can repurpose the background info I wrote above. Also provide a contact address for raising concerns or suggestions. Give it at least a day or two before the changeover.
One thing to consider is if rather than a hard shut-off of the old list, if we set them to bounce emails to the new list instead of delivering them to subscribers. We could leave the forward set for a month or two even (we wouldn't want it set up that way permanently, cause of spam.)
- A new message is sent out on the new list.
Does this make sense? Do you have any ideas?
Martin,
Bryce
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
currently we can access these mailing lists using either nabble: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/ or gmane: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.inkscape.devel
I personally use nabble because I find it more user-friendly. Will this still be possible with the new mailing lists?
Alvin
-- View this message in context: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Mailing-List-Migration-tp4972854p4... Sent from the Inkscape - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 03:43:28AM -0800, alvinpenner wrote:
currently we can access these mailing lists using either nabble: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/ or gmane: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.inkscape.devel
I personally use nabble because I find it more user-friendly. Will this still be possible with the new mailing lists?
This is a good question.
I recall setting up one or the other of those myself way back when. IIRC I simply had to subscribe them to our list, or something. My guess would be it should be equally simple for any of us to do the same.
However, there will be an unavoidable disconnect in those archives because the list address will be different. Theoretically I suppose we could contact gmane and nabble administrators to link the old and new archives, but the trouble may be more than the worth. Instead we might simply arrange that the first emails to the new lists and the last emails to the old lists include the other mailing list names.
On the more positive side though, this change will enable us to do whatever we want to for archiving, so we can make our official archives much easier to navigate and to be better integrated with our infrastructure, and with our own branding and navigation.
Bryce
-- View this message in context: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Mailing-List-Migration-tp4972854p4... Sent from the Inkscape - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.cl... _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
On Thu, 2015-02-19 at 11:16 +0000, John Cliff wrote:
Can we get details of addresses for the new lists before they go live so those of us with filters in place can update them?
Absolutely. I'm predicting they'll be the current names minus inkscape prefix plus @inkscape.org
So inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net becomes devel@...1478...
But I'll confirm everything beforehand.
Martin,
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 07:16:30AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
On Thu, 2015-02-19 at 11:16 +0000, John Cliff wrote:
Can we get details of addresses for the new lists before they go live so those of us with filters in place can update them?
Absolutely. I'm predicting they'll be the current names minus inkscape prefix plus @inkscape.org
So inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net becomes devel@...1478...
But I'll confirm everything beforehand.
I think that's right, although we may want to insert -list in there to distinguish them from personal email addresses.
Btw, this may be obvious but we can drop the inkscape-cvs, inkscape-tracker, and inkscape-janitor lists since they're no longer used.
We also have three language-specific user lists, for -es, -it, and -fr. But these have only a few emails in recent years, and I'd like to propose we simply close them as part of this transition.
There is also an inkscape-wiki list which at one point received notices of wiki updates, but this has been broken for a very long time (maybe since switching to mediawiki?) and no one seems to have minded. I propose we drop this list as well.
The remaining lists are all nicely active.
Bryce
Thanks Bryce,
I've added an item in my calendar for June. We'll get it done after LGM and give us some time to build up more website.
Martin,
On Thu, 2015-02-19 at 23:36 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
Btw, this may be obvious but we can drop the inkscape-cvs, inkscape-tracker, and inkscape-janitor lists since they're no longer used.
We also have three language-specific user lists, for -es, -it, and -fr. But these have only a few emails in recent years, and I'd like to propose we simply close them as part of this transition.
There is also an inkscape-wiki list which at one point received notices of wiki updates, but this has been broken for a very long time (maybe since switching to mediawiki?) and no one seems to have minded. I propose we drop this list as well.
The remaining lists are all nicely active.
Sounds good.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 04:16:08AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Bryce,
I've added an item in my calendar for June. We'll get it done after LGM and give us some time to build up more website.
Martin,
On Thu, 2015-02-19 at 23:36 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
Btw, this may be obvious but we can drop the inkscape-cvs, inkscape-tracker, and inkscape-janitor lists since they're no longer used.
We also have three language-specific user lists, for -es, -it, and -fr. But these have only a few emails in recent years, and I'd like to propose we simply close them as part of this transition.
There is also an inkscape-wiki list which at one point received notices of wiki updates, but this has been broken for a very long time (maybe since switching to mediawiki?) and no one seems to have minded. I propose we drop this list as well.
The remaining lists are all nicely active.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Bryce Harrington <bryce@...961...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 07:16:30AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
Absolutely. I'm predicting they'll be the current names minus inkscape prefix plus @inkscape.org
So inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net becomes devel@...1478...
But I'll confirm everything beforehand.
I think that's right, although we may want to insert -list in there to distinguish them from personal email addresses.
+1
I'd say either add list to the front of the address, or subdomain them to lists.inkscape.org.
Cheers, Josh
participants (6)
-
alvinpenner -
Bryce Harrington -
Christoffer Holmstedt -
John Cliff -
Josh Andler -
Martin Owens