12:27 a.m.
Hi...
First, how do you people do this? Window drivers are a nightmare! For
instance, where do they start and where do applications end? People are
talking about HPGL, SVG ... I just when round and round w/the Graphtec
drivers for their C200-20 and C100-20 plotters. I am convinced they not
only control the plotters but also translate depending on the
application. That is, I have been told, that printing from Word using
the graphics found in the Word's WordArt feature can actually cut on a
Graphtec Craftrobo. How would this be possible unless the driver were
also translating the output of the Word application.
Guess I'm really asking, in windows, using inkscape, is the accepted
"go-between" format between application and drivers PostScript? So, if
anyone dares to write a windows driver, they can at least count on that
much?
Also, I understand that the "pipe the output feature" of inkscape was
recently broken (during a revamping). Is that true? Has it been fixed?
...thanks
3:53 a.m.
I am not quite sure exactly how to put this, but given the fact that the
Vidar script appears to run well on non-Windows platforms, and since it is
already written in a cross-platform language like Python, would it not be
worthwhile to try to run it on a Windows platform?
My impression of the previous thread on cutting plotters was not so much
that this could not be done, but rather a case that no one has actually
tried to do it, including myself ...
Alvin
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6:12 a.m.
Alvin Penner wrote:
I am not quite sure exactly how to put this, but given the fact
that the
Vidar script appears to run well on non-Windows platforms, and since it is
already written in a cross-platform language like Python, would it not be
worthwhile to try to run it on a Windows platform?
My impression of the previous thread on cutting plotters was not so much
that this could not be done, but rather a case that no one has actually
tried to do it, including myself ...
Alvin
Hi Alvin...
Thank you for your feedback. So, evidently, you haven't dealt with the
usual sort who own CC200-20, CC100-20 or WB100-20 plotters, eh :-)?
I tried to explain the Python install process (BTW, you need GLADE for
the GUI as well as a Python interpreter for the graphtecprint
application) to some of these people. I could only imagine the blank
looks I was getting (internet has a way of filtering that out).
On top of that, the windows USB development driver paradigm is just
plain awful. If you are not starting with an HID type USB device you
better hope the people marketing the USB hardware have already done the
work for you. That's where the WB100-20 fails. I don't believe the
company marketing this device is willing to support it into Vista.
Perhaps I should explain. In Linux, this USB device appears in /dev as
soon as it is plugged in because it is recognized as a USB-printer
device. Using this plotter in Linux is as simple as opening the USB
device and writing to it. In windows the CC200-20/CC100-20 driver
doesn't work with the WB100-20 plotter (stike 1) -and- the WB100-20
driver apparently does not work in Vista (strike 2). So, if you spent
$100s on a WB100-20 plotter maybe 3 years ago, and now you can only buy
Vista computers, I think your out of luck.
Currently I am hoping that using a generic text only USB printer driver
in conjunction with a port of graphtecprint will be enough to get
inkscape images out to the plotter.
...thanks
6:34 a.m.
stuart wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. So, evidently, you haven't dealt
with the
usual sort who own CC200-20, CC100-20 or WB100-20 plotters, eh :-)?
I tried to explain the Python install process (BTW, you need GLADE for
the GUI as well as a Python interpreter for the graphtecprint
application) to some of these people. I could only imagine the blank
looks I was getting (internet has a way of filtering that out).
So make it easy. Package up all the deps with pyinstaller or py2exe.
Change gui libs to something easier to package. Make an installer with
nsis. Its possible, maybe not super easy always. And it will be
difficult to find help because there just aren't that many people with
these devices to test it and assist you. I'd love to help, but I just
don't have any clue about this sort of equipment.
Aaron Spike
6:54 a.m.
Aaron Spike wrote:
stuart wrote:
> Thank you for your feedback. So, evidently, you haven't dealt with the
> usual sort who own CC200-20, CC100-20 or WB100-20 plotters, eh :-)?
>
> I tried to explain the Python install process (BTW, you need GLADE for
> the GUI as well as a Python interpreter for the graphtecprint
> application) to some of these people. I could only imagine the blank
> looks I was getting (internet has a way of filtering that out).
So make it easy. Package up all the deps with pyinstaller or py2exe.
Change gui libs to something easier to package. Make an installer with
nsis. Its possible, maybe not super easy always.
Interesting - I assume there are howto's w.r.t. these package'ing utilities?
And it will be
difficult to find help because there just aren't that many people with
these devices to test it and assist you. I'd love to help, but I just
don't have any clue about this sort of equipment.
Aaron Spike
The problem isn't that there are not people w/this type of hardware,
it's that they are more likely to know how to run a craft store then to
know anything about writing code :-). Don't believe me? Drop in to
their yahoo group and read the posts :-) :-).
If we can solve this plotter obsolescence problem, inkscape will pickup
dozen if not hundreds of new users.
8:29 a.m.
stuart wrote:
Interesting - I assume there are howto's w.r.t. these
package'ing utilities?
Certainly there are. I've been using pyinstaller to create EXEs that can
run independently from a python installation.
http://pyinstaller.python-hosting.com/
Once you have an EXE you can use something like NSIS to create an
installable package. Inkscape uses NSIS to create an installer package
for Windows, but I have very little experience with it.
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page
> And it will be
> difficult to find help because there just aren't that many people with
> these devices to test it and assist you. I'd love to help, but I just
> don't have any clue about this sort of equipment.
>
> Aaron Spike
The problem isn't that there are not people w/this type of hardware,
it's that they are more likely to know how to run a craft store then to
know anything about writing code :-). Don't believe me? Drop in to
their yahoo group and read the posts :-) :-).
Yes, I've been on the wishblade forums. Yes, many of the members do not
have nearly the level of technical literacy that we take for granted.
But what I meant to say is that there is a lack OSS hackers, like you
and me, with these devices. And therefore this sort of work is difficult
to support in a free software ecosystem.
If we can solve this plotter obsolescence problem, inkscape will
pickup
dozen if not hundreds of new users.
Be careful what you wish for. I'm less concerned with attracting users
and more concerned with attracting contributors.
I would love to see Inkscape provide a foundation for these communities
to build useful open software for their purposes. But with out these
devices in the hands of developers (or even better users who are
inclined to become developers), it becomes a very difficult dream to
support. If we can single out individuals with aptitude, desire and
machinery and train them, I think it would flourish.
Aaron Spike
10:56 p.m.
Aaron Spike wrote:
stuart wrote:
> Interesting - I assume there are howto's w.r.t. these package'ing
> utilities?
Certainly there are. I've been using pyinstaller to create EXEs that can
run independently from a python installation.
http://pyinstaller.python-hosting.com/
Once you have an EXE you can use something like NSIS to create an
installable package. Inkscape uses NSIS to create an installer package
for Windows, but I have very little experience with it.
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page
Well, I'm putting this in my important stuff folder.
>> And it will be
>> difficult to find help because there just aren't that many people with
>> these devices to test it and assist you. I'd love to help, but I just
>> don't have any clue about this sort of equipment.
>>
>> Aaron Spike
>
> The problem isn't that there are not people w/this type of hardware,
> it's that they are more likely to know how to run a craft store then
> to know anything about writing code :-). Don't believe me? Drop in
> to their yahoo group and read the posts :-) :-).
Yes, I've been on the wishblade forums. Yes, many of the members do not
have nearly the level of technical literacy that we take for granted.
But what I meant to say is that there is a lack OSS hackers, like you
and me, with these devices. And therefore this sort of work is difficult
to support in a free software ecosystem.
> If we can solve this plotter obsolescence problem, inkscape will
> pickup dozen if not hundreds of new users.
Be careful what you wish for. I'm less concerned with attracting users
and more concerned with attracting contributors.
I would love to see Inkscape provide a foundation for these communities
to build useful open software for their purposes. But with out these
devices in the hands of developers (or even better users who are
inclined to become developers), it becomes a very difficult dream to
support. If we can single out individuals with aptitude, desire and
machinery and train them, I think it would flourish.
Aaron Spike
Yes, I see your point. I've been monitoring the slimdevices.com lists
since they started. Now that Logitec owns them, there are many more
[uninformed] posts asking [please] would you make it work like this or
[please] build a box like that. (Brackets added to point out the
optional portions of such posts and to heighten the level of sarcasm :-).)
On the up side, I was (almost) able to (in Linux) set Vidar's debug
option to TRUE, capture his output and sneeker-netted (thumb drive) it
to an XP system where I used NotePad to print it to a
*generic-USB-printer-driver* "pointing" at the USB device that happened
to be a WB100-20 <breath>.
I say almost because it looked like it cut a box, but I have to admit
the last two strokes were way off. I don't know where it fell apart.
My guess is that either window's notepad or the window's generic driver
is blocking some none-printable characters.
...thanks Aaron for your response.
7:53 a.m.
stuart-20 wrote:
On the up side, I was (almost) able to (in Linux) set Vidar's debug
option to TRUE, capture his output and sneeker-netted (thumb drive) it
to an XP system where I used NotePad to print it to a
*generic-USB-printer-driver* "pointing" at the USB device that happened
to be a WB100-20 <breath>.
Just a quick follow-up on the Vidar script :
http://vidar.gimp.org/graphtecprint/
I downloaded graphtecprint 1.0.1 onto Windows XP, and loaded the various
support packages, like gtk, and glade. I ran into a brick wall when I
encountered the python exit message :
ImportError: No module named fcntl
When I searched for documentation at :
http://docs.python.org/library/fcntl.html#module-fcntl
I get the message : Platforms: Unix
The module fcntl appears to be a Unix-only module. Looking at the python
code it appears at first glance to be a fairly low-level communication link
to a device, the type of thing that Windows would typically not support.
In any event, it appears that this will not work under Windows without a
major overhaul of the communication link.
On the bright side, the glade user interface is very cool, and quite easy
to get up and running in Windows (if one first takes a few Valium).
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3:48 a.m.
After a certain amount of hacking about, I was able to run the
graphtecprint.py program on Windows XP. I enabled the debug option,
hardcoded the input filename, and redirected the output to a file, since I
have no plotter. The results are attached, including the input .ps file and
the output .bin file.
Is there anyone out there who could confirm that the .bin file is
suitable for sending to a plotter? (I would have posted this on Vidar's
site, but I see no way of attaching a file there.)
http://www.nabble.com/file/p21267904/spline_A4.zip spline_A4.zip
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Aaron Spike -
Alvin Penner -
stuart