Re: [Inkscape-devel] Using gtkmm in inkscape
The metric I'm watching for this is the size of the inkscape-devel mailing list; when it hits 200-300 I will assume we're at the sweet spot. Based on the volume of list traffic I think we're already pretty close. :-)
I can understand the 200-300 as the ideal size of the developer community, but users? They don't have to be a community at all, and any attempts to limit their number seem utterly weird to me. I am not very excited to think that my work will be used by no more than 300 people in the whole world.
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I agree Bulia. I'm think 200-300 is the max. dev. community size. But that is all theoretical.
Userbase is totally different. There is a nice interface between users and developers called our website, mailing lists, chat, etc.
No limits. Limits crush evolution and revolution.
Let the userbase grow...encourage it to grow...provide a service and it will grow.
jon
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 14:51, bulia byak wrote:
The metric I'm watching for this is the size of the inkscape-devel mailing list; when it hits 200-300 I will assume we're at the sweet spot. Based on the volume of list traffic I think we're already pretty close. :-)
I can understand the 200-300 as the ideal size of the developer community, but users? They don't have to be a community at all, and any attempts to limit their number seem utterly weird to me. I am not very excited to think that my work will be used by no more than 300 people in the whole world.
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On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, bulia byak wrote:
The metric I'm watching for this is the size of the inkscape-devel mailing list; when it hits 200-300 I will assume we're at the sweet spot. Based on the volume of list traffic I think we're already pretty close. :-)
I can understand the 200-300 as the ideal size of the developer community, but users? They don't have to be a community at all, and any attempts to limit their number seem utterly weird to me. I am not very excited to think that my work will be used by no more than 300 people in the whole world.
I did not say 200-300 users, but rather 200-300 people who would be interested and brave enough to join a *-devel list. I would assume the actual userbase size would be much larger.
Also, I don't think we would try to do anything to actively _limit_ growth, just use that number as a target. If we exceeded that limit, the logical step would be to consider budding off a new mailing list (e.g., perhaps inkscape-users or something).
I do think there's value to having a user community eventually. Users can sometimes be much more effective at helping each other with basic usage problems and sharing tricks & tips, etc.
Bryce
The metric I'm watching for this is the size of the inkscape-devel mailing list; when it hits 200-300 I will assume we're at the sweet spot. Based on the volume of list traffic I think we're already
pretty
close. :-)
I can understand the 200-300 as the ideal size of the developer community, but users? They don't have to be a community at all, and any attempts to limit their number seem utterly weird to me. I am not very excited to think that my work will be used by no more than 300 people in the whole world.
Very True. I get warm fuzzies when I look at the millions of direct download stats for AbiWord on sourceforge. Most of the direct downloads come from Windows users. But a large fraction of our developer strength is in Linux/GNOME. We have these sort of dependency arguments in AbiWord frequently too. But the bottom line is, with a good Windows installer (we use the NSIS installer ) it's not that hard to package up what you need for Windows. We also have the luxury of having a GTK-only build as well as a GNOME build which provides the full bloat^H^H^H^H^H power of the GNOME desktop to the user.
I suspect that at some point you'll also have to address the question of whether you want inkscape to be gtk-only or have GNOME (and/or GNOME-Office) integration. (Or even KDE integration given the way things are going on the inter-op front.)
Certainly libgnomeoffice and libgsf provide some nice features you might want soon. (A complete and powerful XP plugin framework and network transperency.)
From the GNOME-Office perspective we're very interested in your ideas for
a SVG rendering lib and actually having a state-of-the-art vector graphics app we can provide for our users.
Cheers
Martin.
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msevior@...79... wrote:
Very True. I get warm fuzzies when I look at the millions of direct download stats for AbiWord on sourceforge. Most of the direct downloads come from Windows users. But a large fraction of our developer strength is in Linux/GNOME. We have these sort of dependency arguments in AbiWord frequently too. But the bottom line is, with a good Windows installer (we use the NSIS installer ) it's not that hard to package up what you need for Windows. We also have the luxury of having a GTK-only build as well as a GNOME build which provides the full bloat^H^H^H^H^H power of the GNOME desktop to the user.
Our aim is to steal lots of that experience from you :)
I suspect that at some point you'll also have to address the question of whether you want inkscape to be gtk-only or have GNOME (and/or GNOME-Office) integration. (Or even KDE integration given the way things are going on the inter-op front.)
Already covered: http://www.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InkscapeInvariants
"Gtk-based user interface following the standards set out in the GNOME HIG"
From the GNOME-Office perspective we're very interested in your ideas for a SVG rendering lib and ...
what's wrong with librsvg?
njh
msevior@...79... wrote:
Very True. I get warm fuzzies when I look at the millions of direct download stats for AbiWord on sourceforge. Most of the direct downloads come from Windows users. But a large fraction of our developer strength is in Linux/GNOME. We have these sort of dependency arguments in AbiWord frequently too. But the bottom line is, with a good Windows installer (we use the NSIS installer ) it's not that hard to package up what you need for Windows. We also have the luxury of having a GTK-only build as well as a GNOME build which provides the full bloat^H^H^H^H^H power of the GNOME desktop to the user.
Our aim is to steal lots of that experience from you :)
I suspect that at some point you'll also have to address the question of whether you want inkscape to be gtk-only or have GNOME (and/or GNOME-Office) integration. (Or even KDE integration given the way things are going on the inter-op front.)
Already covered: http://www.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InkscapeInvariants
"Gtk-based user interface following the standards set out in the GNOME HIG"
Hmm what about things like drag and drop from file-managers/ or WWW documents? Users would expect to be able to drag images from their file browser and drop them on their canvas. If we get the technology we're discussing below correct, users could drag arbitary document types onto inkscape which would convert them to SVG via GNOME_office apps and edit them in inkscape.
Maybe this could be all done via extensions.
Speaking of dreams... I saw on your roadmap importing of different doc types like ps and PDF. I'd love that. I wish I had more free cycles to help but AbiWord is a big enough project to always completely consume my devel time.
From the GNOME-Office perspective we're very interested in your ideas for a SVG rendering lib and ...
what's wrong with librsvg?
It doesn't do text. It doesn't print. We also want an SVG rendering backend for GNOME-print because want to make SVG representations of our documents (think print to ps or PDF) so they can be easily be embedded and combined other apps whether GNOME-office apps ie (AbiWord in Gnumeric or Gnumeric in AbiWord) or other apps like scribus, inkscape or on the WWW. Embedding via SVG representation is the easiest way to achieve XP integration. A lot of the technology in inkscape would be useful to our cause. Cairo is another possibility although it's not XP.
Cheers
Martin
njh
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 19:28, msevior@...79... wrote:
It doesn't do text. It doesn't print. We also want an SVG rendering backend for GNOME-print because want to make SVG representations of our documents (think print to ps or PDF) so they can be easily be embedded and combined other apps whether GNOME-office apps ie (AbiWord in Gnumeric or Gnumeric in AbiWord) or other apps like scribus, inkscape or on the WWW. Embedding via SVG representation is the easiest way to achieve XP integration. A lot of the technology in inkscape would be useful to our cause. Cairo is another possibility although it's not XP.
I would recommend Cairo in this case. There's a librsvg fork build on top of it that I think would be much closer to what you need.
Actually our ultimate plan is to abandon our current rendering backend (libnr) in favor of Cairo anyway. This will require a GDI/GDI+ Cairo backend for Windows first, though.
-mental
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 18:40, Nathan Hurst wrote:
I suspect that at some point you'll also have to address the question of whether you want inkscape to be gtk-only or have GNOME (and/or GNOME-Office) integration. (Or even KDE integration given the way things are going on the inter-op front.)
Well, the policy is pretty much that for any features outside our "core" dependencies (KDE and GNOME proper both fall into this category) need to be shared libraries loaded at runtime, rather than compiled in. This makes packagers' lives easier, among many other things.
It's going to be a bit before our extension interfaces are complete enough for that to become really convenient though.
-mental
participants (6)
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unknown＠example.com -
Bryce Harrington -
bulia byak -
Jonathan Phillips -
MenTaLguY -
Nathan Hurst