Is Inkscape the wrong tool for what I am trying to do?
Maybe sounds like more of a philosophical question that related to development but there are some things Inkscape does that I either don't understand or that work in ways that are counter to what I want.
I seem to have recurring problems with object dimensions changing. This is a problem as I am doing what might charitably be described as mechanical drawings, parts that need to fit together with some precision once they're made into physical objects. I can create an object of some specified dimension (100mm by 100mm) and come back later to find that it's 100.107mm or something. I'm going to see if I can find out what it takes to repro this and file a bug against it if I can make it happen.
I also don't get why the stroke and dimensions are summed in the toolbar that specifies the size of an object. I generally work in outline view with stroke turned off because I don't like that adding a stroke value to an object also changes it's dimension. I'm slowing coming to rethink this as the stroke being the cutter width or kerf, which is useful but if I then have to contend with shifting dimensions, it gets frustrating.
Is there a way to break apart the dimensions of the an object from it's stroke values? Or maybe a toggle that displays the true dimensions and display the stroke and fill for visual reference/clarity? It would useful to work in Normal view and have the colors there but the dimensions then become a problem. If I specify a 3mm opening and 3mm component to go in it, I want those numbers to display while I work.
Maybe Inkscape is the wrong choice for me. I like the ease of use/low barrier to entry and getting things done, and the price is definitely right. But maybe I'm making work for myself.
-- Paul Beard
This space intentionally left blank.
I've also noticed that exact dimensions get changed behind my back, and it bothers me somewhat. Fortunately I can afford to ignore it for almost all the work I do. Although I love Inkscape, things like that make it feel a little bit broken, even if there's a good reason.
I assume the reason is that there's some rounding and conversion to other units going on behind the scenes. But mm is a native SVG unit, right? It seems like these numbers should be stored with the same units & precision as they were entered.
Or perhaps the problem is related to Paul's other concern -- that this figure is a sum of other figures, and so there are rounding errors in the calculation. I'm just guessing.
With recent talk about using Inkscape as a PCB design tool (which I'm very interested in), this may become much more important.
In regards to Paul's other concern: as an artist, I do find it useful that the dimensions given are the total size of the object (bounding box, I assume). For many tools (rectangle, etc), you can get the "naked" dimensions easily enough just by using the tool. But I can also see the use of having a way to get the "naked" dimensions of arbitrary shapes. I don't know of a way.
- Bryan
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Paul Beard <paulbeard@...400...> wrote:
Maybe sounds like more of a philosophical question that related to development but there are some things Inkscape does that I either don't understand or that work in ways that are counter to what I want.
I seem to have recurring problems with object dimensions changing. This is a problem as I am doing what might charitably be described as mechanical drawings, parts that need to fit together with some precision once they're made into physical objects. I can create an object of some specified dimension (100mm by 100mm) and come back later to find that it's 100.107mm or something. I'm going to see if I can find out what it takes to repro this and file a bug against it if I can make it happen.
I also don't get why the stroke and dimensions are summed in the toolbar that specifies the size of an object. I generally work in outline view with stroke turned off because I don't like that adding a stroke value to an object also changes it's dimension. I'm slowing coming to rethink this as the stroke being the cutter width or kerf, which is useful but if I then have to contend with shifting dimensions, it gets frustrating.
Is there a way to break apart the dimensions of the an object from it's stroke values? Or maybe a toggle that displays the true dimensions and display the stroke and fill for visual reference/clarity? It would useful to work in Normal view and have the colors there but the dimensions then become a problem. If I specify a 3mm opening and 3mm component to go in it, I want those numbers to display while I work.
Maybe Inkscape is the wrong choice for me. I like the ease of use/low barrier to entry and getting things done, and the price is definitely right. But maybe I'm making work for myself.
-- Paul Beard
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To answer your philosophical question with my opinion, Paul:
Wrong or right, it's a fun idea, and I certainly wouldn't want to discourage it.
Philosophically, I think yes, Inkscape may be the "wrong" tool for the job, in that it's been primarily designed with artists in mind, and there are other CAD tools that have been designed specifically for mechanical drawings.
But "right" and "wrong" are probably the "wrong" words to be using in this context. There's a huge amount of crossover between artistic tools and CAD tools, and depending on where you sit in the spectrum, Inkscape would be a great tool. If your mechanical components are pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, for instance, Inkscape would be ideal, and hopefully the experts (not me) can work out any showstopper issues for you. If they're precision components for a helicopter engine, steer clear!
- Bryan
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology < bryan@...2310...> wrote:
I've also noticed that exact dimensions get changed behind my back, and it bothers me somewhat. Fortunately I can afford to ignore it for almost all the work I do. Although I love Inkscape, things like that make it feel a little bit broken, even if there's a good reason.
I assume the reason is that there's some rounding and conversion to other units going on behind the scenes. But mm is a native SVG unit, right? It seems like these numbers should be stored with the same units & precision as they were entered.
Or perhaps the problem is related to Paul's other concern -- that this figure is a sum of other figures, and so there are rounding errors in the calculation. I'm just guessing.
With recent talk about using Inkscape as a PCB design tool (which I'm very interested in), this may become much more important.
In regards to Paul's other concern: as an artist, I do find it useful that the dimensions given are the total size of the object (bounding box, I assume). For many tools (rectangle, etc), you can get the "naked" dimensions easily enough just by using the tool. But I can also see the use of having a way to get the "naked" dimensions of arbitrary shapes. I don't know of a way.
- Bryan
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Paul Beard <paulbeard@...400...> wrote:
Maybe sounds like more of a philosophical question that related to development but there are some things Inkscape does that I either don't understand or that work in ways that are counter to what I want.
I seem to have recurring problems with object dimensions changing. This is a problem as I am doing what might charitably be described as mechanical drawings, parts that need to fit together with some precision once they're made into physical objects. I can create an object of some specified dimension (100mm by 100mm) and come back later to find that it's 100.107mm or something. I'm going to see if I can find out what it takes to repro this and file a bug against it if I can make it happen.
I also don't get why the stroke and dimensions are summed in the toolbar that specifies the size of an object. I generally work in outline view with stroke turned off because I don't like that adding a stroke value to an object also changes it's dimension. I'm slowing coming to rethink this as the stroke being the cutter width or kerf, which is useful but if I then have to contend with shifting dimensions, it gets frustrating.
Is there a way to break apart the dimensions of the an object from it's stroke values? Or maybe a toggle that displays the true dimensions and display the stroke and fill for visual reference/clarity? It would useful to work in Normal view and have the colors there but the dimensions then become a problem. If I specify a 3mm opening and 3mm component to go in it, I want those numbers to display while I work.
Maybe Inkscape is the wrong choice for me. I like the ease of use/low barrier to entry and getting things done, and the price is definitely right. But maybe I'm making work for myself.
-- Paul Beard
This space intentionally left blank.
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-- Bryan Hoyt, *Software Developer* -- Brush Technology *Ph:* +64 3 741 1204 *Mobile:* +64 21 238 7955 *Web:* brush.co.nz
No need to be philosophical about this, this is just a longstanding bug :-)
It should have been fixed though in the development branch and will be part of the v0.49 release, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/190557
There will be other bugs remaining obviously, so either just fix them or report them. It will get fixed someday...
I know plenty of engineers working with Inkscape, some of them also working on improving Inkscape. I'd guess that we have more engineers working on Inkscape than artists, because engineers are more likely to have some coding skills? So certainly Inkscape should be useable for engineering purposes!
Diederik
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology < bryan@...2310...> wrote:
To answer your philosophical question with my opinion, Paul:
Wrong or right, it's a fun idea, and I certainly wouldn't want to discourage it.
Philosophically, I think yes, Inkscape may be the "wrong" tool for the job, in that it's been primarily designed with artists in mind, and there are other CAD tools that have been designed specifically for mechanical drawings.
But "right" and "wrong" are probably the "wrong" words to be using in this context. There's a huge amount of crossover between artistic tools and CAD tools, and depending on where you sit in the spectrum, Inkscape would be a great tool. If your mechanical components are pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, for instance, Inkscape would be ideal, and hopefully the experts (not me) can work out any showstopper issues for you. If they're precision components for a helicopter engine, steer clear!
- Bryan
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology < bryan@...2310...> wrote:
I've also noticed that exact dimensions get changed behind my back, and it bothers me somewhat. Fortunately I can afford to ignore it for almost all the work I do. Although I love Inkscape, things like that make it feel a little bit broken, even if there's a good reason.
I assume the reason is that there's some rounding and conversion to other units going on behind the scenes. But mm is a native SVG unit, right? It seems like these numbers should be stored with the same units & precision as they were entered.
Or perhaps the problem is related to Paul's other concern -- that this figure is a sum of other figures, and so there are rounding errors in the calculation. I'm just guessing.
With recent talk about using Inkscape as a PCB design tool (which I'm very interested in), this may become much more important.
In regards to Paul's other concern: as an artist, I do find it useful that the dimensions given are the total size of the object (bounding box, I assume). For many tools (rectangle, etc), you can get the "naked" dimensions easily enough just by using the tool. But I can also see the use of having a way to get the "naked" dimensions of arbitrary shapes. I don't know of a way.
- Bryan
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Paul Beard <paulbeard@...400...> wrote:
Maybe sounds like more of a philosophical question that related to development but there are some things Inkscape does that I either don't understand or that work in ways that are counter to what I want.
I seem to have recurring problems with object dimensions changing. This is a problem as I am doing what might charitably be described as mechanical drawings, parts that need to fit together with some precision once they're made into physical objects. I can create an object of some specified dimension (100mm by 100mm) and come back later to find that it's 100.107mm or something. I'm going to see if I can find out what it takes to repro this and file a bug against it if I can make it happen.
I also don't get why the stroke and dimensions are summed in the toolbar that specifies the size of an object. I generally work in outline view with stroke turned off because I don't like that adding a stroke value to an object also changes it's dimension. I'm slowing coming to rethink this as the stroke being the cutter width or kerf, which is useful but if I then have to contend with shifting dimensions, it gets frustrating.
Is there a way to break apart the dimensions of the an object from it's stroke values? Or maybe a toggle that displays the true dimensions and display the stroke and fill for visual reference/clarity? It would useful to work in Normal view and have the colors there but the dimensions then become a problem. If I specify a 3mm opening and 3mm component to go in it, I want those numbers to display while I work.
Maybe Inkscape is the wrong choice for me. I like the ease of use/low barrier to entry and getting things done, and the price is definitely right. But maybe I'm making work for myself.
-- Paul Beard
This space intentionally left blank.
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Build for Windows Store.
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-- Bryan Hoyt, *Software Developer* -- Brush Technology *Ph:* +64 3 741 1204 *Mobile:* +64 21 238 7955 *Web:* brush.co.nz
-- Bryan Hoyt, *Software Developer* -- Brush Technology *Ph:* +64 3 741 1204 *Mobile:* +64 21 238 7955 *Web:* brush.co.nz
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On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Diederik en Rezi <mail@...1689...> wrote:
No need to be philosophical about this, this is just a longstanding bug :-)
Curiously, it seems related to my struggle with stroke values and object sizes in one of the comments there. -- This space intentionally left blank.
Just a short comment regarding "problems" with object size and stroke width. Do you use geometric bounding box or visual bounding box? This is setting in Inkscape preferences -> Tools -> Bounding box to use.
From my experience for technical drawings you have to use geometric
bounding box and then you won't have to deal with stroke width and size of the object.
Best regards, Rok
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Paul Beard <paulbeard@...400...> wrote:
On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Diederik en Rezi <mail@...1689...> wrote:
No need to be philosophical about this, this is just a longstanding bug
:-)
Curiously, it seems related to my struggle with stroke values and object sizes in one of the comments there. -- This space intentionally left blank.
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On Jun 21, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Rock Star <rockstar1707@...400...> wrote:
Do you use geometric bounding box or visual bounding box? This is setting in Inkscape preferences -> Tools -> Bounding box to use.
From my experience for technical drawings you have to use geometric bounding box and then you won't have to deal with stroke width and size of the object.
It looks like visual is the default. I changed it to geometric (never knew about this option and still not clear on what it does). Onward… -- Paul Beard
This space intentionally left blank.
On Jun 20, 2013, at 1:38 PM, "Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology" <bryan@...3001......> wrote:
But mm is a native SVG unit, right? It seems like these numbers should be stored with the same units & precision as they were entered.
This might be it. I often use old imperial values but never connected the precision/conversion piece.
-- This space intentionally left blank.
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Paul Beard <paulbeard@...400...> wrote:On 20-Jun-2013 13:38, Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology wrote:
I can create an
object of some specified dimension (100mm by 100mm) and come back later to find that its 100.107mm or something. Im going to see if I can find out what it takes to repro this and file a bug against it if I can make it happen.
Please do.
That sort of small change is easy to trigger by accidentally resizing an object, but I can easily believe that it could also result from a large number of apparently "neutral" changes, like a round trip to inches and back, or changing the width of a bounding line, and then changing it back.
Regards,
David Mathog mathog@...1176... Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
participants (5)
-
Bryan Hoyt | Brush Technology -
Diederik en Rezi -
mathog -
Paul Beard -
Rock Star