, which is for lateral panels on web interfaces (and you don’t have any). Futhermore I don’t really understand why you use

. Thanks for the work, Sylvain Le 13/04/2017 à 07:29, bandura1(a)...114... a écrit : > Hello Everybody in the Inkscape Multiverse, > I uploaded Inkscape tutorial #7 to my project website. It covers > transforming objects. I focus a significant amount of attention on the > Perspective function. It's a feature with its own personality. You can > find the tutorial through: > > https://roy-torley.github.io > > There are a few files you can download and play with. I hope you get good > value of them. > > Best wishes to all, > > Roy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs --===============8607461205838086494==-- From Sylvain Chiron Mon Apr 17 23:40:14 2017 From: Sylvain Chiron To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Inkscape tutorial #7 has been uploaded Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:40:04 +0200 Message-ID: <32d0c13e-ece2-c856-a63c-538d7b220f24@...102...> In-Reply-To: <972977C8F2B848BB903E6CD2E5BF6FAC@...141...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5740980861993535472==" --===============5740980861993535472== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 18/04/2017 à 01:31, brynn a écrit : > There is an embedded style section though. For the greeny footer. > So if he doesn't want to make a > whole style sheet, he could insert a few more tags there. To me, Bootstrap is an appropriate choice for minimal styling. I gave straightforward instructions to have it enabled immediately. > Or really only 1 > would be needed (width=100% or something similar). Would be more like `max-width: 1200px;`. -- Sylvain --===============5740980861993535472==-- From Victor Westmann Fri Apr 28 06:16:28 2017 From: Victor Westmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: [Inkscape-docs] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:16:00 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1335248661425371355==" --===============1335248661425371355== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi team, I was not sure as where I was supposed to open this discussion (or question) of mine. I was just wondering... I do know that it takes a lot of time, and money, and then more time, and probably a lot of revisions... but do you guys think we can try to aim making something similar to this? https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/workbook/ This is a hard copy, printed, material that Affinity Designer, from the Serif company, sell. I confess I don't have a copy of this material (yet) as it seems it only exists, officially, in the printed version... but I saw some samples and was really inspired and eager to check if we could do something on our own more or less of the same kind. We could try to use the Scribus to achieve such results.. and some open fonts (from Google and Adobe) and try to assemble 4 - 6 different big learning areas inside this Inkscape Activity Book. They could be: 1. Creating isometric graphics, (there is a super sweet plugin that works wonderfully in Inkscape 0.91.2) 2. Vectorizing simple photos, 3. creating logos (or recreating famous ones (not sure this is allowed)), there are multiple AMAZING examples of this on Nick Saporito Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEQXp_fcqwPcqrzNtWJ1w9w) 4. UX-UI design to create webpage (or mobile apps) mockups. I know it is a lot of work. But we could try doing a smaller and simpler version of it to see how it goes. It would help us gather more money to the Inkscape project and follow, more or less, the model of Krita (they have a paid support option and some books to sell as well) and Blender (they have a store with multiple long and detailed tutorials on how to do things in videos (DVDs)). Just wondering... I know this might be asking too much... but I plan to be involved in this. Even if we have time for only 1 or 2 modules. It would be amazing to craft such material and spread it to the community (paid or free). --Victor Westmann --===============1335248661425371355== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.htm" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciI+PGRpdj48ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj5IaSB0ZWFt LDxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+SSB3YXMgbm90IHN1cmUgYXMgd2hlcmUgSSB3YXMgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8g b3BlbiB0aGlzIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gKG9yIHF1ZXN0aW9uKSBvZiBtaW5lLjxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+ SSB3YXMganVzdCB3b25kZXJpbmcuLi4gSSBkbyBrbm93IHRoYXQgaXQgdGFrZXMgYSBsb3Qgb2Yg dGltZSwgYW5kIG1vbmV5LCBhbmQgdGhlbiBtb3JlIHRpbWUsIGFuZCBwcm9iYWJseSBhIGxvdCBv ZiByZXZpc2lvbnMuLi4gYnV0IGRvIHlvdSBndXlzIHRoaW5rIHdlIGNhbiB0cnkgdG8gYWltIG1h a2luZyBzb21ldGhpbmcgc2ltaWxhciB0byB0aGlzPyA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL2FmZmluaXR5 LnNlcmlmLmNvbS9lbi11cy9kZXNpZ25lci93b3JrYm9vay8iPmh0dHBzOi8vYWZmaW5pdHkuc2Vy aWYuY29tL2VuLXVzL2Rlc2lnbmVyL3dvcmtib29rLzwvYT48YnI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PlRoaXMgaXMg YSBoYXJkIGNvcHksIHByaW50ZWQsIG1hdGVyaWFsIHRoYXQgQWZmaW5pdHkgRGVzaWduZXIsIGZy b20gdGhlIFNlcmlmIGNvbXBhbnksIHNlbGwuIEkgY29uZmVzcyBJIGRvbiYjMzk7dCBoYXZlIGEg Y29weSBvZiB0aGlzIG1hdGVyaWFsICh5ZXQpIGFzIGl0IHNlZW1zIGl0IG9ubHkgZXhpc3RzLCBv ZmZpY2lhbGx5LCBpbiB0aGUgcHJpbnRlZCB2ZXJzaW9uLi4uIGJ1dCBJIHNhdyBzb21lIHNhbXBs ZXMgYW5kIHdhcyByZWFsbHkgaW5zcGlyZWQgYW5kIGVhZ2VyIHRvIGNoZWNrIGlmIHdlIGNvdWxk IGRvIHNvbWV0aGluZyBvbiBvdXIgb3duIG1vcmUgb3IgbGVzcyBvZiB0aGUgc2FtZSBraW5kLjxi cj48YnI+PC9kaXY+V2UgY291bGQgdHJ5IHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgU2NyaWJ1cyB0byBhY2hpZXZlIHN1 Y2ggcmVzdWx0cy4uIGFuZCBzb21lIG9wZW4gZm9udHMgKGZyb20gR29vZ2xlIGFuZCBBZG9iZSkg YW5kIHRyeSB0byBhc3NlbWJsZSA0IC0gNiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgYmlnIGxlYXJuaW5nIGFyZWFzIGlu c2lkZSB0aGlzIElua3NjYXBlIEFjdGl2aXR5IEJvb2suIDxicj48YnI+VGhleSBjb3VsZCBiZTo8 YnI+PGJyPjEuIENyZWF0aW5nIGlzb21ldHJpYyBncmFwaGljcywgKHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgc3VwZXIg c3dlZXQgcGx1Z2luIHRoYXQgd29ya3Mgd29uZGVyZnVsbHkgaW4gSW5rc2NhcGUgMC45MS4yKTxi cj4yLiBWZWN0b3JpemluZyBzaW1wbGUgcGhvdG9zLCA8YnI+My4gY3JlYXRpbmcgbG9nb3MgKG9y IHJlY3JlYXRpbmcgZmFtb3VzIG9uZXMgKG5vdCBzdXJlIHRoaXMgaXMgYWxsb3dlZCkpLCB0aGVy ZSBhcmUgbXVsdGlwbGUgQU1BWklORyBleGFtcGxlcyBvZiB0aGlzIG9uIE5pY2sgU2Fwb3JpdG8g WW91dHViZSBjaGFubmVsICg8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNvbS9jaGFubmVs L1VDRVFYcF9mY3F3UGNxcnpOdFdKMXc5dyI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vY2hhbm5l bC9VQ0VRWHBfZmNxd1BjcXJ6TnRXSjF3OXc8L2E+KTxicj48L2Rpdj40LiBVWC1VSSBkZXNpZ24g dG8gY3JlYXRlIHdlYnBhZ2UgKG9yIG1vYmlsZSBhcHBzKSBtb2NrdXBzLjxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+ SSBrbm93IGl0IGlzIGEgbG90IG9mIHdvcmsuIEJ1dCB3ZSBjb3VsZCB0cnkgZG9pbmcgYSBzbWFs bGVyIGFuZCBzaW1wbGVyIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgaXQgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyBpdCBnb2VzLiA8YnI+PGJy Pkl0IHdvdWxkIGhlbHAgdXMgZ2F0aGVyIG1vcmUgbW9uZXkgdG8gdGhlIElua3NjYXBlIHByb2pl Y3QgYW5kIGZvbGxvdywgbW9yZSBvciBsZXNzLCB0aGUgbW9kZWwgb2YgS3JpdGEgKHRoZXkgaGF2 ZSBhIHBhaWQgc3VwcG9ydCBvcHRpb24gYW5kIHNvbWUgYm9va3MgdG8gc2VsbCBhcyB3ZWxsKSBh bmQgQmxlbmRlciAodGhleSBoYXZlIGEgc3RvcmUgd2l0aCBtdWx0aXBsZSBsb25nIGFuZCBkZXRh aWxlZCB0dXRvcmlhbHMgb24gaG93IHRvIGRvIHRoaW5ncyBpbiB2aWRlb3MgKERWRHMpKS48YnI+ PGJyPjwvZGl2Pkp1c3Qgd29uZGVyaW5nLi4uIEkga25vdyB0aGlzIG1pZ2h0IGJlIGFza2luZyB0 b28gbXVjaC4uLiBidXQgSSBwbGFuIHRvIGJlIGludm9sdmVkIGluIHRoaXMuIEV2ZW4gaWYgd2Ug aGF2ZSB0aW1lIGZvciBvbmx5IDEgb3IgMiBtb2R1bGVzLiBJdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhbWF6aW5nIHRv IGNyYWZ0IHN1Y2ggbWF0ZXJpYWwgYW5kIHNwcmVhZCBpdCB0byB0aGUgY29tbXVuaXR5IChwYWlk IG9yIGZyZWUpLjxiciBjbGVhcj0iYWxsIj48ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj48 ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJnbWFpbF9zaWduYXR1cmUiPjxkaXYgZGlyPSJsdHIi PjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2Pi0tVmljdG9yIFdlc3RtYW5uPC9kaXY+PC9k aXY+PC9kaXY+CjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2 PjwvZGl2Pgo= --===============1335248661425371355==-- From Martin Owens Fri Apr 28 14:14:51 2017 From: Martin Owens To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:14:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1493388881.17770.2.camel@...2...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1935382136121624690==" --===============1935382136121624690== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: > I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's > what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd > like. > It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack > of time/hands involved. > > Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a > github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what > needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there should be a button to join: https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something "complete" but have something small produced. Best Regards, Martin Owens --===============1935382136121624690==-- From Victor Westmann Fri Apr 28 19:23:37 2017 From: Victor Westmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1493388881.17770.2.camel@...2...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3785934267742830016==" --===============3785934267742830016== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Already subscribed to the doc project on Gitlab. Sorry guys. I know I do am asking for a LOT... but it never hurts to gather opinions from others as well. Cheers, --Victor Westmann 2017-04-28 7:14 GMT-07:00 Martin Owens : > On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: > > I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's > > what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd > > like. > > It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack > > of time/hands involved. > > > > Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a > > github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what > > needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. > > Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. > > Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there > should be a button to join: > > https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs > > And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: > > https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals > > I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the > adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something > "complete" but have something small produced. > > Best Regards, Martin Owens > > --===============3785934267742830016== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.htm" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciI+PGRpdj48ZGl2PkFscmVhZHkgc3Vic2NyaWJlZCB0byB0aGUgZG9jIHBy b2plY3Qgb24gR2l0bGFiLjxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+U29ycnkgZ3V5cy4gSSBrbm93IEkgZG8gYW0g YXNraW5nIGZvciBhIExPVC4uLiBidXQgaXQgbmV2ZXIgaHVydHMgdG8gZ2F0aGVyIG9waW5pb25z IGZyb20gb3RoZXJzIGFzIHdlbGwuPGJyPjxicj48L2Rpdj5DaGVlcnMsPGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYg Y2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX2V4dHJhIj48YnIgY2xlYXI9ImFsbCI+PGRpdj48ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJnbWFp bF9zaWduYXR1cmUiIGRhdGEtc21hcnRtYWlsPSJnbWFpbF9zaWduYXR1cmUiPjxkaXYgZGlyPSJs dHIiPjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2Pi0tVmljdG9yIFdlc3RtYW5uPC9kaXY+ PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+Cjxicj48ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJnbWFpbF9xdW90ZSI+MjAxNy0wNC0yOCA3OjE0 IEdNVC0wNzowMCBNYXJ0aW4gT3dlbnMgPHNwYW4gZGlyPSJsdHIiPiZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWls dG86ZG9jdG9ybW9ALi4uMi4uLiIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmRvY3Rvcm1vQC4uLjIuLi48L2E+ Jmd0Ozwvc3Bhbj46PGJyPjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIGNsYXNzPSJnbWFpbF9xdW90ZSIgc3R5bGU9Im1h cmdpbjowIDAgMCAuOGV4O2JvcmRlci1sZWZ0OjFweCAjY2NjIHNvbGlkO3BhZGRpbmctbGVmdDox ZXgiPjxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSIiPk9uIEZyaSwgMjAxNy0wNC0yOCBhdCAxMjozOSArMDEwMCwgQyBS IHdyb3RlOjxicj4KJmd0OyBJJiMzOTtkIGxvdmUgdG8gcXVpdCBteSBqb2IgYW5kIGp1c3QgZG8g ZG9jcy4gOikgVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgdGhhdCYjMzk7czxicj4KJmd0OyB3aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxk IHByb2JhYmx5IHRha2UgdG8gZ2V0IGRvY3MgZ29pbmcgdG8gdGhlIGV4dGVudCB3ZSYjMzk7ZDxi cj4KJmd0OyBsaWtlLjxicj4KJmd0OyBJdCYjMzk7cyBiZWVuIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBiZWZvcmUsIGJ1 dCBuZXZlciBnb25lIGFueXdoZXJlIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2YgbGFjazxicj4KJmd0OyBvZiB0aW1lL2hh bmRzIGludm9sdmVkLjxicj4KJmd0Ozxicj4KJmd0OyBZZXMsIHdlIHNob3VsZCB1c2UgU2NyaWJ1 cyB0byBkbyBpdC4gSW4gZmFjdCwgaXQgc2hvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlIGE8YnI+CiZndDsgZ2l0 aHViIHByb2plY3QgdG8gYXR0cmFjdCBjb250cmlidXRvcnMuIFRoaXMgd2F5IHdlIGNhbiBwYXRj aCB3aGF0PGJyPgomZ3Q7IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIHBhdGNoZWQgd2hlbiBzdHVmZiBjaGFuZ2VzIGlu IHN1YnNlcXVlbnQgcmVsZWFzZXMuPGJyPgo8YnI+Cjwvc3Bhbj5Tb3VuZHMgbGlrZSB5b3UgaGF2 ZSBhIHNvbGlkIHN0ZXAgb25lIENocmlzLjxicj4KPGJyPgpIZXJlJiMzOTtzIHRoZSBpbmtzY2Fw ZS1kb2NzIGdyb3VwIG9uIGdpdGxhYiwgRVZFUllPTkUgc2hvdWxkIGpvaW4sIHRoZXJlPGJyPgpz aG91bGQgYmUgYSBidXR0b24gdG8gam9pbjo8YnI+Cjxicj4KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRs YWIuY29tL2lua3NjYXBlLWRvY3MiIHJlbD0ibm9yZWZlcnJlciIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0 dHBzOi8vZ2l0bGFiLmNvbS9pbmtzY2FwZS08d2JyPmRvY3M8L2E+PGJyPgo8YnI+CkFuZCBoZXJl JiMzOTtzIHRoZSBuZXcgYm9vay9tYW51YWwvZG9jcyBwcm9qZWN0IHdoZXJlIGZpbGVzIGNhbiBi ZSBwdXQ6PGJyPgo8YnI+CjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0bGFiLmNvbS9pbmtzY2FwZS9tYW51 YWxzIiByZWw9Im5vcmVmZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL2dpdGxhYi5jb20v aW5rc2NhcGUvPHdicj5tYW51YWxzPC9hPjxicj4KPGJyPgpJIHJlY29tbWVuZCB1c2luZyB0aGUg d2lraSBhdHRhY2hlZCB0byB0aGUgcHJvamVjdCB0byBwbGFuIHRoZTxicj4KYWR2ZW50dXJlIHNs b3dseS4gQWRkIGEgYml0IGF0IGEgdGltZSBhbmQgZG9uJiMzOTt0IHJ1c2ggdG8gaGF2ZSBzb21l dGhpbmc8YnI+CiZxdW90O2NvbXBsZXRlJnF1b3Q7IGJ1dCBoYXZlIHNvbWV0aGluZyBzbWFsbCBw cm9kdWNlZC48YnI+Cjxicj4KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLCBNYXJ0aW4gT3dlbnM8YnI+Cjxicj4KPC9i bG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj4K --===============3785934267742830016==-- From Maren Hachmann Fri Apr 28 22:02:02 2017 From: Maren Hachmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:01:52 +0200 Message-ID: <42f62da7-eacd-debd-9c6e-624ab0d27af9@...68...> In-Reply-To: <9a03d7ec-94e9-ee4e-068b-67a19de4fca5@...68...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2973018593027276840==" --===============2973018593027276840== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it might be later on. Maren > Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: >> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: >>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's >>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd >>> like. >>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack >>> of time/hands involved. >>> >>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a >>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what >>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. >> >> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. >> >> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there >> should be a button to join: >> >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs >> >> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: >> >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals >> >> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the >> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something >> "complete" but have something small produced. >> >> Best Regards, Martin Owens >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-devel mailing list >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >> >=20 --===============2973018593027276840==-- From Martin Owens Fri Apr 28 22:17:24 2017 From: Martin Owens To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:17:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1493417835.14083.5.camel@...2...> In-Reply-To: <42f62da7-eacd-debd-9c6e-624ab0d27af9@...68...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7885586568567558508==" --===============7885586568567558508== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 00:01 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote: > Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? > > The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. > There > are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as > it > might be later on. Agreed. I've moved everything around and re-added the members to the group. Project is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals Group is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs Best Regards, Martin Owens --===============7885586568567558508==-- From Maren Hachmann Fri Apr 28 23:01:15 2017 From: Maren Hachmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 01:01:07 +0200 Message-ID: <58fd5090-ce39-1739-9339-a0942f9b708c@...68...> In-Reply-To: <1493417835.14083.5.camel@...2...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3144076456616580856==" --===============3144076456616580856== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great :) I think, in this context, it makes sense to also link to the thread on the translators mailing list, where many of us have already been discussing the issue, and started to investigate options. https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/inkscape-translator/thread/CAPOH7%= 3DZn3sWhZ%3D1DDB-1FUp%2BQUZzrLmyy7iOFiL1VcfY0maG9g%40mail.gmail.com/#msg35807= 172 Victor (who initiated the thread) has already written about his findings about Sphinx there, and he also linked to a list on github, where different documentation systems are listed (sorry, your latest email is still on my todo list, Victor). Elisa has mentioned the Booktype instance of flossmanualsfr, as far as I remember. Regards, Maren Am 29.04.2017 um 00:17 schrieb Martin Owens: > On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 00:01 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote: >> Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? >> >> The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. >> There >> are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as >> it >> might be later on. >=20 > Agreed. >=20 > I've moved everything around and re-added the members to the group. >=20 > Project is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals > Group is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs >=20 > Best Regards, Martin Owens >=20 --===============3144076456616580856==-- From Maren Hachmann Sat Apr 29 12:24:55 2017 From: Maren Hachmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:24:46 +0200 Message-ID: <3839b4c9-c459-07c5-3f72-5e2f0382a76d@...68...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2541433183393833169==" --===============2541433183393833169== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 29.04.2017 um 10:05 schrieb C R: > I have requested access to the gitlab repo. Once allowed, I'll drop a > Scribus document in there with a cover, and the master pages with some > initial styling for the document. I'll also do a README file with an > initial layout/contents proposal based on some of the ideas here. >=20 > To my mind, the most useful thing would be getting an inkscape > quick-start guide going as the preface. This way users can start > making use of the document right away. >=20 > We may also want to publish each section of the book as a pdf as we go > along, so users don't have to clone our repos just to get the > information. :) >=20 > Contributors should also be aware that it's not okay to copy/paste > content from blogs, tutorials, etc. For this document, everything must > be re-written from scratch, and all screen captures, graphics etc. > must be of our own making and cc0 (public domain). Anyone not > interested in contributing 100% public domain content, should not > contribute to this project. - For a printable book, this sounds like a good idea :D For a more 'scientific' manual, I think it's not suitable to do this in Scribus, and that we should turn to a proven documentation software. I've heard that Scribus performance drops dramatically with the number of pages. How would you go about translatating the book? I strongly disagree with CC0 - I would only contribute to something that where attribution and copyleft are honored. It's fine to pull content from properly licenced sources, imho, too. There are quick start guides with good licences - this would make the process a lot faster, if it wouldn't need to be written from scratch, but only modified. So yeah, count me out :) Maren > -C >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Maren Hachmann > wrote: >> Great :) >> >> I think, in this context, it makes sense to also link to the thread on >> the translators mailing list, where many of us have already been >> discussing the issue, and started to investigate options. >> >> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/inkscape-translator/thread/CAPO= H7%3DZn3sWhZ%3D1DDB-1FUp%2BQUZzrLmyy7iOFiL1VcfY0maG9g%40mail.gmail.com/#msg35= 807172 >> >> Victor (who initiated the thread) has already written about his findings >> about Sphinx there, and he also linked to a list on github, where >> different documentation systems are listed (sorry, your latest email is >> still on my todo list, Victor). >> >> Elisa has mentioned the Booktype instance of flossmanualsfr, as far as I >> remember. >> >> Regards, >> Maren >> >> Am 29.04.2017 um 00:17 schrieb Martin Owens: >>> On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 00:01 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote: >>>> Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? >>>> >>>> The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. >>>> There >>>> are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as >>>> it >>>> might be later on. >>> >>> Agreed. >>> >>> I've moved everything around and re-added the members to the group. >>> >>> Project is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals >>> Group is now: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs >>> >>> Best Regards, Martin Owens >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-devel mailing list >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >=20 --===============2541433183393833169==-- From brynn Sat Apr 29 13:19:13 2017 From: brynn To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 07:19:10 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42f62da7-eacd-debd-9c6e-624ab0d27af9@...68...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8213683796970541612==" --===============8213683796970541612== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't mean to slow anyone's roll here. But wouldn't it make more sense to = put=20 any kind of energy towards documentation into the much discussed, direly need= ed,=20 user-focused, step by step manual? Rather than starting from scratch on a wh= ole=20 different kind of project? There are many books out there already, which amount to a series of tutorials= .=20 It's not a bad thing. I just think this kind of project is better suited for= a=20 single author, or maybe a small team. And I think the project needs the manu= al=20 much, more more than the community needs another book of tutorials. As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation of...well= I=20 can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to whatever has been = translated already:=20 https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/introduction/ Once we have the translation, we'll be off and running to update and finish i= t!=20 By the way, is there anything those of us who can't translate, can do, to hel= p=20 the translators? And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? A big obstacle = to=20 writing any book is getting it published. You almost have to have an invitat= ion=20 from a publisher to be certain a book will get published. Or publish it=20 yourself, which is not easy eitiher. Just my opinion :-) brynn -----Original Message-----=20 From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:01 PM To: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material?=20 (targeting the moon) Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it might be later on. Maren > Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: >> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: >>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's >>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd >>> like. >>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack >>> of time/hands involved. >>> >>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a >>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what >>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. >> >> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. >> >> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there >> should be a button to join: >> >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs >> >> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: >> >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals >> >> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the >> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something >> "complete" but have something small produced. >> >> Best Regards, Martin Owens >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-devel mailing list >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel=20 --===============8213683796970541612==-- From Martin Owens Sat Apr 29 15:30:04 2017 From: Martin Owens To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 11:29:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1493479794.16171.4.camel@...2...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4104651534804559592==" --===============4104651534804559592== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It's fine to pull content > from properly licenced sources, imho, too. > > I disagree. This would create a tangle of licenses and attribution > requirements that will make the contents less usable in/by other > projects. We should remove the burden of attribution where possible. It doesn't have to be a tangle if you set out the rules from the start. Copyleft exists to protect projects and attribution exists to give authors credit for their hard work. A CC-BY-SA project should be doable. But I'm hoping to examples of situations where educational materials were harmed by choosing an attribution style license. (also, if it's in a repository, the "who wrote what" becomes a bit easier) As for pulling in content from outside. Ask. Firstly ask if the author would like their work included, then ask if they could relicense their work to whatever is needed and then finally if the other two were met with enthusiasm, ask them to join the team. :-) Best Regards, Martin Owens --===============4104651534804559592==-- From Martin Owens Sat Apr 29 17:25:55 2017 From: Martin Owens To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 13:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1493486744.17666.12.camel@...2...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2396476674741964632==" --===============2396476674741964632== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 07:19 -0600, brynn wrote: > As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation > of...well I > can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to whatever > has been > translated already: > https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/introduction/ No, that's not licensed. We can't and shouldn't use it until it has a known and open license. Unfortunately there are going to be lots of good resources that we just can't use. But you can use "the idea" of the content. So having similar sections and covering similar ground. Best Regards, Martin Owens --===============2396476674741964632==-- From brynn Sat Apr 29 18:26:26 2017 From: brynn To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 12:26:21 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1740116862641545677==" --===============1740116862641545677== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? ..... > Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways,.... Yes, I understand that. But I thought Victor was talking about a hardback bo= ok,=20 like at the link he provided. That kind of book is hard to get published,=20 unless you have some prior agreement with a publisher. At least that's my=20 understanding. Somewhere in this thread was some discussion about licensing. If this is to = be=20 a hardback book (old fashioned way of publishing) *to me* it makes more sense= to=20 carry a copyright. As far as I understand, publishers take a cut of sales. = And=20 if it's a public domain content, there wouldn't be many sales. It seems like= it=20 would make it even harder to find a publisher. I don't know, maybe I'm old and old fashioned. But the FLOSS manual, on the = other hand, certainly should be either public domain, or CC-BY-NC-SA might be= =20 better. Whatever it needs to have, to allow the community to edit. I'm not sure what has the translators on pause. But that seems to be the=20 "blocker" at the moment. That's why I was asking if there was anything we=20 non-translators can do to help. I wish I knew anyone I could ask to help, bu= t I=20 sure don't. This is probably a bad idea. But I'm trying to think outside the box. What = if=20 I (or other non-French-speaker) took one of the French pages, and sent it=20 through the public google and/or bing translators. I know those are far from= =20 perfect. (Sooooo far!) But since I know Inkscape, it seems like it would gi= ve=20 me enough of a clue what it's about, to be able to write it properly in Engli= sh. Then maybe the translators can proof read it, to make sure something importan= t=20 wasn't missed? Proof reading would seem to be much less time-consuming for=20 them. Would that work?? All best, brynn -----Original Message-----=20 From: C R Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 9:54 AM To: brynn Cc: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List ; Maren Hachmann ; Victor Westmann Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material?=20 (targeting the moon) > I don't mean to slow anyone's roll here. But wouldn't it make more sense t= o=20 > put > any kind of energy towards documentation into the much discussed, direly=20 > needed, > user-focused, step by step manual? Rather than starting from scratch on a = > whole > different kind of project? Yea, this actually makes a lot of sense as a first step. > There are many books out there already, which amount to a series of tutoria= ls. > It's not a bad thing. I just think this kind of project is better suited f= or=20 > a > single author, or maybe a small team. And I think the project needs the=20 > manual > much, more more than the community needs another book of tutorials. I agree. I think the book could be a lot of things in one. But I agree with finishing what we already have before starting something new. > As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation of...we= ll > can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to whatever has been > translated already: > https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/introduction/ I can't help with translation, unfortunately. But I'd like to see this finished. So +1 for the suggestion. > Once we have the translation, we'll be off and running to update and finish= =20 > it! > By the way, is there anything those of us who can't translate, can do, to h= elp > the translators? I volunteer to help this effort in what ways are needed. > And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? A big obstacl= e=20 > to > writing any book is getting it published. You almost have to have an=20 > invitation > from a publisher to be certain a book will get published. Or publish it > yourself, which is not easy eitiher. Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways, opened in browsers, laptops, eReaders, or just printed out. We could sell printed copies along with other Inkscape stuff. Maybe copies signed by members of the project would be kinda cool. No idea what the market is for it, but the idea that we could do all of these at once is attractive, and why I recommend Scribus. -C > > Just my opinion :-) > > brynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maren Hachmann > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:01 PM > To: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? > (targeting the moon) > > Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? > > The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There > are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it > might be later on. > > Maren > >> Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: >>> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: >>>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's >>>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd >>>> like. >>>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack >>>> of time/hands involved. >>>> >>>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a >>>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what >>>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. >>> >>> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. >>> >>> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there >>> should be a button to join: >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs >>> >>> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals >>> >>> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the >>> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something >>> "complete" but have something small produced. >>> >>> Best Regards, Martin Owens >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-devel mailing list >>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >>> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel=20 --===============1740116862641545677==-- From Maren Hachmann Sat Apr 29 22:29:34 2017 From: Maren Hachmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 00:29:26 +0200 Message-ID: <6b3d4b66-a5ba-9e89-4b4e-e98881eb53b3@...68...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5587277725448945568==" --===============5587277725448945568== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, oh, wow, I've just been offline for a couple of hours - wouldn't have expected that, if finally someone gives the 'go' for a manual, there would be such a huge echo (we've been discussing this on and off for a /very/ long time already). That's just cool :D Just some comments to various things that were mentioned: @CR: I think Scribus is a great tool for making the kind of graphical, polished, sellable, printable, book-with-columns-like structure which was linked in that very first link. For something that is really nice to look at, and is fun to read and touch. I also think this is not the same as a manual, which should be quick to browse, quick to grasp, with lots of interlinks, with a file format suitable for version control (well, yes, Scribus is xml, I've been told, so it would be /readable/ - but those diffs are really ugly), with out-of-the-box automated generation of online versions of a manual - as can be done with tools like sphinx/readthedocs, doctype, and other tools specifically tailored for open source documentation + gitlab CI. You can take a look at the link from Victor's message to the mailing list, if you would like to know more: https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/35773618/ Even the booktype server of flossmanuals works with automation. Using one of those would also have the advantage that, once set up, this system could be used for both developer as well as user documentation (as Victor wrote in his post - and I agree with him). As for the attribution, I think especially the book-like structure would profit from it, as I believe that artists may be more likely to contribute their drawings if those are - at least - credited to them. Also, it would be good if things like the keyboard+mouse reference and other stuff we already have could be included. It's faster that way. Faster also means: quicker rewards. This is good if you want to have many contributors. Also, crediting people for their work is just something that makes them more willing to contribute (as stated above). CC-By would lose that, after the first iteration, as far as my understanding of the licence goes. Some of the people involved in flossmanualsfr are also long-time contributors to and developers of Inkscape, so that's the relation. The other, English, outdated, manual that you linked to, has been written by many of the 'old hands' in the Inkscape community - some of whom have moved on, and some of whom are still involved. @doctormo: "FLOSS Manuals utilise la licence libre GPL pour l'ensemble de ses travaux." - translates to: all manuals on flossmanuals are under the GPL (don't ask which version, doesn't say there on that page. (https://www.flossmanualsfr.net/faq-floss-manuals-francophone/ch011_quest-ce-= que-lopen-source-et-quelle-est-la-difference-entre-free-libre-et-open). @Brynn: if you want to help with the translation of that 'intro' book, you could, for example, make corresponding screenshots for it, of the English version. You could also get an account on that site, and explain to others who speak both French and English how it works, and what they would need to do to join. Or write a news article asking for translators who would like to help. Also, you could add a 'Credits' page at the end, which seems to be missing still. And, of course, you can proofread and edit. Sylvain has already translated quite a bit. The NC licence is maybe a bit overprotective, but I'm all for crediting and having a manual be available for anyone who needs it. I personally wouldn't mind if someone prints and sells it and makes money with that. As long as that is not the only source of the book/manual, this doesn't cause me any worries. I think google translate might cause more issues than solve them - but it has been getting better... I personally find that correcting a badly messed-up text which already gives me some 'scheme' tends to give worse translations, than when there is no scaffolding. It's because the machine translation is kind of giving the direction. It may be faster, but the translation sounds less natural. @jazzynico or Elisa: Can you tell us the specific flossmanuals licence? GPLv2 or 3? Or, if not specified, do you know which version it would use then, legally? Does Booktype use any kind of version control that is compatible with git? What is the source file format? @Miguel: yes, we're discussing those workarounds (and many others) on the forums on a regular basis. It would certainly be cool if someone could compile the 'Tips + Tricks' (sounds better than workarounds?) to make up a separate section in the manual, or even a separate manual by its own. (sorry for the long post, there was a lot to reply to :D) Maren Am 29.04.2017 um 21:22 schrieb C R: > Also this: http://write.flossmanuals.net/inkscape/ >=20 > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:04 PM, C R wrote: >>>> Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways,.... >>> >>> >>> Yes, I understand that. But I thought Victor was talking about a hardback >>> book, like at the link he provided. That kind of book is hard to get >>> published, unless you have some prior agreement with a publisher. At lea= st >>> that's my understanding. >> >> We can self-publish, but we'd have to order a thousand copies, which >> would take some startup funds. I don't think hardback would be >> necessary. >> In fact, I don't imagine printing is necessary. We could render out a >> nice illustration of the book, with "ebook" under it, and people can >> enjoy the aesthetic without downing a bunch of trees to make physical >> copies of the manual. Virtual copies have great things like >> hyperlinks, and text search capabilities. So there are more benefits >> to having a digital copy anyway. >> >>> Somewhere in this thread was some discussion about licensing. If this is= to >>> be a hardback book (old fashioned way of publishing) *to me* it makes more >>> sense to carry a copyright. >> >> The only requirement for a published physical book is an isbn number >> (for product catalog, and inventory purposes). The license of the >> book, as I understand it, is left completely open to the authors. We >> would not have this published by a company interested in owning the >> copyright, of course. >> >>> As far as I understand, publishers take a cut >>> of sales. And if it's a public domain content, there wouldn't be many >>> sales. It seems like it would make it even harder to find a publisher. >> >> A publisher isn't necessary for this project, assuming the content is >> what's important. If we want book sales out of this, that's the point >> where it will become an issue. >> >>> I don't know, maybe I'm old and old fashioned. But the FLOSS manual, on = the >>> other hand, certainly should be either public domain, or CC-BY-NC-SA might >>> be better. Whatever it needs to have, to allow the community to edit. >> >> All I can guarantee is that my contributions will be public domain. :) >> >>> This is probably a bad idea. But I'm trying to think outside the box. W= hat >>> if I (or other non-French-speaker) took one of the French pages, and sent= it >>> through the public google and/or bing translators. I know those are far >>> from perfect. (Sooooo far!) But since I know Inkscape, it seems like it >>> would give me enough of a clue what it's about, to be able to write it >>> properly in English. >> >> Well, translation plus proof-reading is fine I'd think. It's not like >> the subject matter would be alien to you. :) Fact is, you could easily >> re-write from scratch the missing sections in English, then we would >> be able to use it in our own "official" Inkscape manual too. >> >>> Then maybe the translators can proof read it, to make sure something >>> important wasn't missed? Proof reading would seem to be much less >>> time-consuming for them. >>> >>> Would that work?? >>> >>> All best, >>> brynn >> >> >> As I understand it, the Inkscape Project has nothing to do with >> flossmanuals, so perhaps it's beyond the scope of this project. >> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: C R >>> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 9:54 AM >>> To: brynn >>> Cc: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List ; Maren Hachmann ; Victor Westmann >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? >>> (targeting the moon) >>> >>>> I don't mean to slow anyone's roll here. But wouldn't it make more sense >>>> to put >>>> any kind of energy towards documentation into the much discussed, direly >>>> needed, >>>> user-focused, step by step manual? Rather than starting from scratch on= a >>>> whole >>>> different kind of project? >>> >>> >>> Yea, this actually makes a lot of sense as a first step. >>> >>>> There are many books out there already, which amount to a series of >>>> tutorials. >>>> It's not a bad thing. I just think this kind of project is better suited >>>> for a >>>> single author, or maybe a small team. And I think the project needs the >>>> manual >>>> much, more more than the community needs another book of tutorials. >>> >>> >>> I agree. I think the book could be a lot of things in one. But I agree >>> with finishing what we already have before starting something new. >>> >>> >>>> As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation >>>> of...well >>>> can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to whatever has >>>> been >>>> translated already: >>>> https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/introduction/ >>> >>> >>> I can't help with translation, unfortunately. But I'd like to see this >>> finished. So +1 for the suggestion. >>> >>>> Once we have the translation, we'll be off and running to update and >>>> finish it! >>>> By the way, is there anything those of us who can't translate, can do, to >>>> help >>>> the translators? >>> >>> >>> I volunteer to help this effort in what ways are needed. >>> >>>> And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? A big >>>> obstacle to >>>> writing any book is getting it published. You almost have to have an >>>> invitation >>>> from a publisher to be certain a book will get published. Or publish it >>>> yourself, which is not easy eitiher. >>> >>> >>> Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways, opened >>> in browsers, laptops, eReaders, or just printed out. We could sell >>> printed copies along with other Inkscape stuff. Maybe copies signed by >>> members of the project would be kinda cool. No idea what the market is >>> for it, but the idea that we could do all of these at once is >>> attractive, and why I recommend Scribus. >>> >>> -C >>> >>>> >>>> Just my opinion :-) >>>> >>>> brynn >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Maren Hachmann >>>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:01 PM >>>> To: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List >>>> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? >>>> (targeting the moon) >>>> >>>> Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? >>>> >>>> The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There >>>> are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it >>>> might be later on. >>>> >>>> Maren >>>> >>>>> Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's >>>>>>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd >>>>>>> like. >>>>>>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack >>>>>>> of time/hands involved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a >>>>>>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what >>>>>>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there >>>>>> should be a button to join: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs >>>>>> >>>>>> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals >>>>>> >>>>>> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the >>>>>> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something >>>>>> "complete" but have something small produced. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, Martin Owens >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list >>>>>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list >>>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list >>>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >>> >>> >=20 --===============5587277725448945568==-- From Victor Westmann Sat Apr 29 22:32:53 2017 From: Victor Westmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:32:26 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8601565440009456163==" --===============8601565440009456163== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Brynn. We should first focus in create the official/original doc of Inkscape on Gitlab and then try to do this hard copy book to sell in the inkscape store. I just wanted to gather the opinions of you guys if more or less following the index of a 3rd party material is a good idea or at least a good place to start. We don't have to copy it topic by topic but we could inspire ourselves in it. Cheers, --Victor Westmann 2017-04-29 6:19 GMT-07:00 brynn : > I don't mean to slow anyone's roll here. But wouldn't it make more sense > to put any kind of energy towards documentation into the much discussed, > direly needed, user-focused, step by step manual? Rather than starting > from scratch on a whole different kind of project? > > There are many books out there already, which amount to a series of > tutorials. It's not a bad thing. I just think this kind of project is > better suited for a single author, or maybe a small team. And I think the > project needs the manual much, more more than the community needs another > book of tutorials. > > As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation > of...well I can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to > whatever has been translated already: https://fr.flossmanuals.net/st > art-with-inkscape/introduction/ > > Once we have the translation, we'll be off and running to update and > finish it! By the way, is there anything those of us who can't translate, > can do, to help the translators? > > And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? A big > obstacle to writing any book is getting it published. You almost have to > have an invitation from a publisher to be certain a book will get > published. Or publish it yourself, which is not easy eitiher. > > Just my opinion :-) > > brynn > > -----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:01 PM > To: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? > (targeting the moon) > > > Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? > > The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There > are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it > might be later on. > > Maren > > Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: >> >>> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: >>> >>>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's >>>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd >>>> like. >>>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack >>>> of time/hands involved. >>>> >>>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a >>>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what >>>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. >>>> >>> >>> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. >>> >>> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there >>> should be a button to join: >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs >>> >>> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals >>> >>> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the >>> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something >>> "complete" but have something small produced. >>> >>> Best Regards, Martin Owens >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Inkscape-devel mailing list >>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel >>> >>> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > 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X19fX19fX188YnI+Cklua3NjYXBlLWRldmVsIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxicj4KPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFp bHRvOklua3NjYXBlLWRldmVsQGxpc3RzLnNvdXJjZWZvcmdlLm5ldCIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsi Pklua3NjYXBlLWRldmVsQC4uLjExOC4uLjx3YnI+Z2UubmV0PC9hPjxicj4KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5zb3VyY2Vmb3JnZS5uZXQvbGlzdHMvbGlzdGluZm8vaW5rc2NhcGUtZGV2ZWwi IHJlbD0ibm9yZWZlcnJlciIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vbGlzdHMuc291cmNlZm9y Z2UubmV0Lzx3YnI+bGlzdHMvbGlzdGluZm8vaW5rc2NhcGUtZGV2ZWw8L2E+IDxicj4KPC9kaXY+ PC9kaXY+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj4K --===============8601565440009456163==-- From Victor Westmann Sat Apr 29 22:37:14 2017 From: Victor Westmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:36:44 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0532778129513702154==" --===============0532778129513702154== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Miguel, I think this is a GREAT advantage for the entire Inkscape project. It makes all the sense of the world to help users do all the needed workarounds and, if they want, help send funds to the project ($$) and/or a bug request on Gitlab(is it at Gitlab really?). Amazing. The more transparent we are (and we really are) the better. --Victor Westmann 2017-04-29 10:39 GMT-07:00 Miguel Lopez : > I want to put out something regarding documentations. What about > workarounds to Inkscape limitations as part of the documentation? Some > users really need some answers to the limitation of Inkscape. There's > another idea I have in mind. For making tutorials shorter, we can use > existing tutorials of our own and linking to them as part of advanced > section of Inkscape tutorials. Advanced users should already know the > program in and out to know how to apply them for advanced rendering. > Some of those might need workarounds though. > > My only issue with those workaround is the amount of time they require, > and the tax on limited resources. Otherwise, if those weren't a issue, > they would be fantastic though they're still not a replacement to what > other programs has to offer. I can offer making workaround docs if > anyone wants me to show how to work around Inkscape limits. > > For example : > > 1) Gradient Stroke - > > 1a) Method 1 (If profile line aren't needed) - Duplicate and then adjust > stroke width, and then convert to path. Every strokes must be converted > to path. You copy and paste the path that is going to get removed by > applying the path difference. You repeat the process, and then you get > every individual stroke which can be colored as however you please. > > 1b) Method 2 (If profile line is needed) You apply the same thing to the > above, but you are not going to use stroke width. Instead, you are going > to use power stroke to emulate profile line with gradient stroke. > > 2) Realistic Rendering of convulated objects like a shoe. > > 2a) This involves series of clipping, blurring, gradient mesh and > brushing. Right now, Inkscape users can only use gradient mesh for basic > overall lighting, and some bit of coloring using filtering since > gradient mesh is underdeveloped in Inkscape. You apply blur to brushes > in order to emulate shading. Doing this a lot can give very sastifying > result within Inkscape, but also drains so much of rendering speed > within Inkscape even with a powerful computer. But results are literally > comparable to raster programs, and in some way even better because well, > it's scalable. > > 3) The lack of warp tool for textures workaround > > 3a) As of now, we do have lattice tool, and the tweak liquifying tool. > Those two can be used as a workaround to the lack of warp tool. Lattice > deformation tool should had the option of allowing users to tweak the > tangency line though instead of the tangency line being tangent to the > horizontal and vertical direction. This is not something that can have a > decent workaround since it requires duplicating so many objects and then > tweaking it would be a major pain. For complicated textures, it can't be > done within Inkscape unless you have a infinite amount of time and > resource, and as we all know that's not possible. > > 4) For people who have trouble with tangency snapping (I'm one of > those), and no that snapping option does not help one bit. > > 4a) The obvious workaround involves using the show handles. You can make > tangent line utilizing the result of the show handles LPE. Also, this > enables users to be able to create perpendicular, and tangent spiro path. > > 5) The lack of ease regarding manipulating mask/clip > > 5a) The workaround to this is well, using the clone as the > masking/clipping source while retaining the original for > clipping/masking at another location. This workaround works because you > can always manipulate the source object, and hide it. It is almost > exactly like as if you were manipulating transparency mask within Krita > or Photoshop or GIMP. After testing it, it's beautiful really when you > change between layer/group. > > 6) PDF export limitation > > 6a) The obvious workaround here is well, export to png and then convert > to pdf. Of course, some rasterization would be needed if one has to > convert to pdf, literally at times. > > I think those are the 6 issues that could be addressed via docs tutorial > for those who are desperate to find a solution to those. They can always > resort to Krita for those (except 6 because pdf export is not planned), > but that's not a option if they have to create a vector render. If > there's anything I miss regarding workarounds, lemme know. I can > probably add more workarounds if I miss anything as I know the program > in and out from a user perspective. > > > On 4/29/2017 11:54 AM, C R wrote: > >> I don't mean to slow anyone's roll here. But wouldn't it make more > sense to put > >> any kind of energy towards documentation into the much discussed, > direly needed, > >> user-focused, step by step manual? Rather than starting from scratch > on a whole > >> different kind of project? > > Yea, this actually makes a lot of sense as a first step. > > > >> There are many books out there already, which amount to a series of > tutorials. > >> It's not a bad thing. I just think this kind of project is better > suited for a > >> single author, or maybe a small team. And I think the project needs > the manual > >> much, more more than the community needs another book of tutorials. > > I agree. I think the book could be a lot of things in one. But I agree > > with finishing what we already have before starting something new. > > > > > >> As far as I understand, all that's needed is an English translation > of...well > >> can't find a link to the French version. Here's a link to whatever has > been > >> translated already: > >> https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/introduction/ > > I can't help with translation, unfortunately. But I'd like to see this > > finished. So +1 for the suggestion. > > > >> Once we have the translation, we'll be off and running to update and > finish it! > >> By the way, is there anything those of us who can't translate, can do, > to help > >> the translators? > > I volunteer to help this effort in what ways are needed. > > > >> And won't such a new book of tutorials have to be published? A big > obstacle to > >> writing any book is getting it published. You almost have to have an > invitation > >> from a publisher to be certain a book will get published. Or publish it > >> yourself, which is not easy eitiher. > > Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways, opened > > in browsers, laptops, eReaders, or just printed out. We could sell > > printed copies along with other Inkscape stuff. Maybe copies signed by > > members of the project would be kinda cool. No idea what the market is > > for it, but the idea that we could do all of these at once is > > attractive, and why I recommend Scribus. > > > > -C > > > >> Just my opinion :-) > >> > >> brynn > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Maren Hachmann > >> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:01 PM > >> To: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape Devel List > >> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? > >> (targeting the moon) > >> > >> Would it make sense to use gitlab's new subgroups feature for this? > >> > >> The inkscape-docs team could be a sub-team of Inkscape, that way. There > >> are only 4 members as of now, so changing wouldn't be so difficult as it > >> might be later on. > >> > >> Maren > >> > >>> Am 28.04.2017 um 16:14 schrieb Martin Owens: > >>>> On Fri, 2017-04-28 at 12:39 +0100, C R wrote: > >>>>> I'd love to quit my job and just do docs. :) Unfortunately, that's > >>>>> what it would probably take to get docs going to the extent we'd > >>>>> like. > >>>>> It's been discussed before, but never gone anywhere because of lack > >>>>> of time/hands involved. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, we should use Scribus to do it. In fact, it should probably be a > >>>>> github project to attract contributors. This way we can patch what > >>>>> needs to be patched when stuff changes in subsequent releases. > >>>> Sounds like you have a solid step one Chris. > >>>> > >>>> Here's the inkscape-docs group on gitlab, EVERYONE should join, there > >>>> should be a button to join: > >>>> > >>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape-docs > >>>> > >>>> And here's the new book/manual/docs project where files can be put: > >>>> > >>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/manuals > >>>> > >>>> I recommend using the wiki attached to the project to plan the > >>>> adventure slowly. Add a bit at a time and don't rush to have something > >>>> "complete" but have something small produced. > >>>> > >>>> Best Regards, Martin Owens > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list > >>>> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > >>>> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Inkscape-devel mailing list > >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Inkscape-devel mailing list > >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > --===============0532778129513702154== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.htm" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciI+PGRpdj48ZGl2PkhpIE1pZ3VlbCw8YnI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PkkgdGhpbmsg dGhpcyBpcyBhIEdSRUFUIGFkdmFudGFnZSBmb3IgdGhlIGVudGlyZSBJbmtzY2FwZSBwcm9qZWN0 LiBJdCBtYWtlcyBhbGwgdGhlIHNlbnNlIG9mIHRoZSB3b3JsZCB0byBoZWxwIHVzZXJzIGRvIGFs bCB0aGUgbmVlZGVkIHdvcmthcm91bmRzIGFuZCwgaWYgdGhleSB3YW50LCBoZWxwIHNlbmQgZnVu ZHMgdG8gdGhlIHByb2plY3QgKCQkKSBhbmQvb3IgYSBidWcgcmVxdWVzdCBvbiBHaXRsYWIoaXMg aXQgYXQgR2l0bGFiIHJlYWxseT8pLjxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+QW1hemluZy4gVGhlIG1vcmUgdHJh 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ZS1kZXZlbCIgcmVsPSJub3JlZmVycmVyIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5z b3VyY2Vmb3JnZS5uZXQvPHdicj5saXN0cy9saXN0aW5mby9pbmtzY2FwZS1kZXZlbDwvYT48YnI+ CjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Rpdj48YnI+PC9kaXY+Cg== --===============0532778129513702154==-- From Martin Owens Sun Apr 30 02:47:41 2017 From: Martin Owens To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 22:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1493520452.21778.18.camel@...2...> In-Reply-To: <6b3d4b66-a5ba-9e89-4b4e-e98881eb53b3@...68...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1131120624262102905==" --===============1131120624262102905== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Maren, I talked with Chris this morning about how to set things up. But we were mostly trialing, thinking and researching. So not decisions or anything. > Even the booktype server of flossmanuals works with automation. > Using one of those would also have the advantage that, once set up, > this > system could be used for both developer as well as user documentation > (as Victor wrote in his post - and I agree with him). Developer documentation is a very different beast and I'd like to if at all possible keep that separate. wiki.inkscape.org is the best location for that at the moment. One of the ideas we were playing with, was getting contributors to edit content directly at gitlab.com, then we have a bunch of scripts that consume the wiki git repository, generate pot/po files, and provide the raw resource for an optional secondary step. The second step would be a sort of publishing step. Where we take the content as a specific time, and produce it into a cleaned up, pretty book/pdf. I imagine contributors like CR would be most interested in this step. But everyone would be involved in the raw materials step (writing words and getting screenshots into the wiki) > CC-By would lose that, after the first iteration, as far as my > understanding of the licence goes. That's not how licenses work (at least not these ones), you can't remove any prior terms, you can only add terms. Technically you could take a CC-BY work and wrap it in a CC-BY-SA work, or relicense as All Rights Reserved. BUT everyone would still be required to attend that that attribution of the original license. SA means you can't /add licenses/ to make it more restrictive. > @doctormo: "FLOSS Manuals utilise la licence libre GPL pour > l'ensemble > de ses travaux." - translates to: all manuals on flossmanuals are > under > the GPL (don't ask which version, doesn't say there on that page. > (https://www.flossmanualsfr.net/faq-floss-manuals-francophone/ch011_q > uest-ce-que-lopen-source-et-quelle-est-la-difference-entre-free- > libre-et-open). Ugh, not dual licensed then. This is where a CC0 or PD would have been better. We can't do anything with the content if we want to use CC-BY- SA since the licenses are incompatible. We'll have to be careful. Best Regards, Martin Owens --===============1131120624262102905==-- From Maren Hachmann Sun Apr 30 14:47:20 2017 From: Maren Hachmann To: inkscape-docs@lists.inkscape.org Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 16:47:12 +0200 Message-ID: <690520df-6ff7-e31e-5269-0b8fb5cad282@...68...> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2377515157089429117==" --===============2377515157089429117== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am 30.04.2017 um 11:39 schrieb C R: > > > I also think this is not the same as a manual, which should be quick to > browse, quick to grasp, with lots of interlinks, with a file format > suitable for version control (well, yes, Scribus is xml, I've been told, > so it would be /readable/ - but those diffs are really ugly), with > out-of-the-box automated generation of online versions of a manual - as > can be done with tools like sphinx/readthedocs, doctype, and other tools > > > Martin and I are thinking gitlab + markdown will suffice for the basis > of contribution, and we can worry about scribus and doc publishing later. > - This sounds to me like it would be duplicating work, when automated systems exist, but aren't used from the start. > > Also, it would be good if things like the keyboard+mouse reference and > other stuff we already have could be included. > > > Probably should use markdown code to identify key shortcuts in plain > text. Makes them easier to edit, diff, and provides an easy way to add > new ones. - Yes, but we could copy the structure and contents, which are both good. I certainly don't know all the shortcuts by heart. And there are many that aren't listed in the keys.xml file. > Also, crediting people for their work is just > something that makes them more willing to contribute (as stated above). > CC-By would lose that, after the first iteration, as far as my > understanding of the licence goes. > > > We get into the territory of having to edit each and every diagram or > screen capture. It's messy. I think a better credit would be to have a > contributor page for those who contribute the most. If that's > insufficient credit, I think people might be contributing for the wrong > reasons. > - I fully agree that a general 'Credits' page would be sufficient. The Inkscape website contents is dual licenced, too. And we do not have individual credits for each page, word, image, link or whatever. It would be very difficult to do that anyway. Do you think that poses a problem? If someone wants to know specifically, a git blame would be sufficient to find out (this wouldn't work for the website's CMS, though)... > Some of the people involved in flossmanualsfr are also long-time > contributors to and developers of Inkscape, so that's the relation. > > > But you see how the licensing gets in the way? We can't use any of it > now. People wanted credit more than they wanted to have the contents be > reusable. GPL is for software. People try to rewrite for content, but > that's not what it's for. Worse, it imposes more restrictions than CC-BY. - We could, if we used GPL... It doesn't prevent translation or modification. And we can ask, as Martin suggested. > I think it's best to say something like: "Unless otherwise stated, all > content in this book is CC0, Public Domain." Then, those who require > attribution can include it in the caption below the graphics. - That's certainly possible. However, I wouldn't contribute text or proofreading or maintenance help under these circumstances. There are many things that I have published as CC0 (Public Domain is impossible in Germany, because there are certain moral rights, such as 'authorship' that one cannot give up, even if one wanted to). But a manual that is made for an open source, copyleft software should fit the philosophy, in my opinion. I care about attributing work to the people who did it, and I don't want that someone who comes along to grab what they did can just deprive them of it. Regards, Maren --===============2377515157089429117==--