Re: [Inkscape-docs] Update "Video Tutorials" section in website

14 Jan 2017

      Hi Maren and all,
        So you're saying that you don't see a need for tutorials to be curated 
at all?  So that searching the Inkscape website for a tutorial offers the 
visitor no more assurance that they'll find a decent tutorial, than if they 
search the internet?
        It seems to me like the Inkscape website should bear some responsibility 
for providing quality content (even if it's not its own content), especially 
regarding tutorials.
Thanks,
brynn
-----Original Message----- 
From: Maren Hachmann
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 7:35 PM
To: brynn ; Vardenis Pavardenis ; Martin Owens ; 
inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Update "Video Tutorials" section in website
Hi Brynn and Vardenis, and everyone else,
just answering Brynn's questions now.
Am 13.01.2017 um 02:44 schrieb brynn:
...
   That's assuming it's allowed to have 2 words in a single tag?

- Yes, that is possible.
...
Everyone,
-- I would suggest that whoever uploads the video should have watched it
all the way through.   Sometimes a video gets uploaded (to YT or vimeo)
which is broken - either the video or the sound craps out halfway
through, for example. Or sometimes they're just poor quality video or
sound.
- This is possible for videos where 'we' post the link, but not for
videos uploaded by 'just any' user. We can maybe add a way to mark
videos as 'featured' or 'recommendable' (e.g. by uploading it under a
specified user name, or into a specific gallery, or by a mechanism that
would still need to be added or repurposed), but letting users decide,
by upvoting, is much easier on our staff resources.
...
Should we discuss and post guidelines for tutorials that we want to....I
can't think of the right word?  Not exactly "bless", but we're
essentially recommending or approving them.  And it seems like if anyone
can load anyone else's tutorials, there should be some kind of quality
control.
- All we may be checking for in 'anybody''s uploads is that they do not
contain spam, or are intentionally misleading. For the rest, if your
neighbour makes a little video, where he presents his favourite Inkscape
tool to the world, he's welcome to link it from the Inkscape website.
...
When I was thinking of doing it, all that stuff is already in
my mind.  But if all kinds of people will do it, I wonder if there
should be some guidelines?
- The guidelines are in the community CoC. A video is just a resource
like any other one.
...
Either that, or new ones will need to be
moderated (by a moderator watching or reading the whole thing, judging
its quality, and possibly tagging).  And it seems like the person who
uploads it should bear that burden.  Moderators will already have a lot
of work to do, and watching new videos will take more time.
- Yes, people who upload a video link, or artwork, or tutorial, or
anything are responsible for their uploads. Moderator(s) currently have
a very light job, there's little to do, fortunately. It takes me less
than 15 minutes a day to check all uploads, and unpublish or delete,
deactivate user accounts if suitable, or add more or less encouraging
comments and questions.
...
I wonder if it might be better for 1 person to be responsible for
judging the skill level (beginner, intermediate, advanced)?  Because
people are going to be all over the place with that, and I fear that
those ratings will quickly become useless (if they aren't consistent).
- If someone disputes the difficulty level of a video, they can always
ask for it to be changed in a comment. It's not a strict science, so
even when a single person does it, it may feel very different for
another person. For the videos that we 'feature', if we decide to do so,
the input of everyone who is interested in watching the videos will be
taken into account for setting the level. I doubt it's a topic we'll
want to have long discussions about, though.
...
   I'm not sure if there will be some kind of limit on the number of

videos, or tutorials in general?
- Links are tiny in our db, so this won't be a problem.
...
   So if I'm understanding how it works better, the only difference

between clicking on a text link, and clicking on a video in the gallery,
is that it can possibly have a thumbnail image in the gallery?  (Oh!
When contacting the author, I would ask if they want to provide a
thumbnail.)
- That, and that the video can be watched while you stay on the Inkscape
website.
...
   So that's why there's no copyright issue.  We aren't actually

uploading their videos.  Instead, we're....well, it would be sort of
hotlinking, except for YT does allow that, since they even provide the
embedding code themselves.
- It's called embedding :)
...
   Well, something still feels weird about this kind of routine.  I

assume it takes more resources - bandwidth, space, cpu or other? to do
it using the gallery, than just a simple text link.
- Possibly. On the upside, people can sort to their liking, use the
upvotes of others as recommendations, and use a search, they can
comment, interact. It's so much more interactive and community-building
than a list. Also more visually attractive...
...
I guess I'm just old
fashioned.  I'd rather see nicely organized text, lists or table, where
potentially hundreds of tutorials can be linked on one page.
- Maybe :) Those kinds of pages are rare nowadays. People aren't used to
see them a lot anymore.
...
The
visitor can quickly scan the page for the category they need.  Rather
than a gallery entry, where you can only see....what is it, 20 at once.
And you have to search for your catagory, where if you don't already
know the terminology of what you're looking for, you won't be very
successful finding it.  And the website speed.....well, I hope we get
more space sooner than later.
- I hope so, too. And more RAM :)
...
  If and when we get more server space, could we host our own video

tutorials?  Or is it never in the plans?  I think it would make the
website even better.  (And of course, not depending on other websites
for content is a plus.)
- That's difficult to do, because video files are so large. Also, we'd
get more people to find them if they're hosted on a website like
youtube. And most uploaders use those public services anyway. Uploading
twice is a lot to ask, it takes a long time to upload a video, depending
upon your internet connection.
Hope this helps a bit,
Regards,
Maren
...
Thanks,
brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Vardenis Pavardenis
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 6:44 AM
To: Maren Hachmann ; brynn ; Martin Owens ;
inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Update "Video Tutorials" section in website
Hello,
Matin Owens said: "Because really that page needs to not exist in the
form it is." and he doing website improvements. So, maybe just wait and
don't update if really this page change form from current form to new
form. Lessons list can be created easily, if something agrees with my
suggestion, but if the page really change whether it's worth it to build?
11.01.2017, 05:22, "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...>:
Am 11.01.2017 um 04:00 schrieb brynn:
I think that page may need to exist into the future. Not all video
authors will want to go to the trouble to upload their....links. And
having this page will allow us to have a list of some of the best ones,
which are not in the gallery.

Anyone can add any video to the gallery. You can do so, too. We could

have a 'featured' tag or something similar, too, if we want to designate
'the best'. But we can also just let the community decide what they like
best, by voting on the items. Who knows with certainty what is helpful
for others...
Although eventually, maybe it could be combined with the Text Tutorials
page. They won't be intermingled, just 2 separate section. Maybe - just
a thought.

I would go so far as to replace the text tutorials page, too... it's

just causing translation work, with no additional benefit in comparison
to a gallery page (for me).
As I've said before, I'm sure we can make it nicer to look at.
Another thought - links to non-YouTube videos will work as well? vimeo,
e.g.

All links will work. For embedding, vimeo and youtube do work. Other

providers can be added as needed.
Regards,
Maren
All best,
brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Owens
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 4:37 PM
To: Maren Hachmann ; inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Update "Video Tutorials" section in website
On Tue, 2017-01-10 at 21:21 +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Can't say that I can see why we'd take this route, when seemingly, we
all agree that the page would be better off being replaced with a
proper
solution to the problem...
We already had this situation once (where it was my fault), I don't
like
to see it repeated.
Btw. anyone can add a link to an Inkscape tutorial video they like,
and
mark as 'Tutorial'. It needn't be the author (but it would be good to
have them on board, of course). If someone needs help with how to do
this, I'm available for explanations / step-by-steps.
I'm really hoping my improvements which are yet to go in, will help get
links added correctly.
Because really that page needs to not exist in the form it is.
But who knows, I have hope the next website release will be met with
positive review.
Best Regards, Martin Owens

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