Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinkingMaren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the widercommunity up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
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Can someone help Maren?
I feel like a news article and a deviantArt post would be useful for drumming up volunteers.
But also, for a project director when just getting started, it's useful to hand out jobs, so people know that they are needed and that they don't have to think too much about which of the jobs they should do while figuring out the software/editing platform.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the wider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
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Thank you Marten,
I have been in touch with Brynn and I have offered to help if I can. But I too was wondering who is the Project Manager, handling the task analysis and the work assignments. I really don't think you can have a project of this level, with multiple people involved, and not have someone assessing skill levels, tracking task completion, determining milestones, and communicating progress.
Your Project Manager must also be given the authority to ask questions related to the tasks and resources needed to complete the assigned progress and to expect an answer. I have been waiting for someone to contact me related to the skill set I possess to let me know if I can help at all.
Brynn I am sorry, I thought you were the Project Manager, so I shared my skill set with you, thinking you were putting together people and skills.
Maren seems to be moving along and as she mentioned, you do need someone familiar with Inkscape, which I am not. I just started using it a few months ago to do basic 2D drawings for quilting projects.
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 10:09 AM, Martin Owens wrote:
Can someone help Maren?
I feel like a news article and a deviantArt post would be useful for drumming up volunteers.
But also, for a project director when just getting started, it's useful to hand out jobs, so people know that they are needed and that they don't have to think too much about which of the jobs they should do while figuring out the software/editing platform.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep thewider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
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On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Thank you, Marietta, Carl, and Martin for pointing me into the right direction (hopefully) and for calling for help, and volunteering your time :)
I'm glad to know that people are still interested in helping, but might just not have known how (or, in CR's case, are too busy with other stuff - believe me, I understand). Guess I got too used to the standard open source theme of 'grab a task and do it if you're up to it' - and I'm also kind of shy about telling others what to do. I'm sorry about not getting that I should take on a more active, guiding role, to make it easier for new members to join.
@Marietta: What do you think about Martin's suggestion?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:52 schrieb Martin Owens:
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
I think it will suit me perfectly.
Thanks--Marietta
On 6/4/2017 5:55 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Thank you, Marietta, Carl, and Martin for pointing me into the right direction (hopefully) and for calling for help, and volunteering your time :)
I'm glad to know that people are still interested in helping, but might just not have known how (or, in CR's case, are too busy with other stuff
- believe me, I understand).
Guess I got too used to the standard open source theme of 'grab a task and do it if you're up to it' - and I'm also kind of shy about telling others what to do. I'm sorry about not getting that I should take on a more active, guiding role, to make it easier for new members to join.
@Marietta: What do you think about Martin's suggestion?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:52 schrieb Martin Owens:
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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Hi all,
I have set myself up with Trello in order to track notes and completion of Chapter review.. (Just to let everyone know I will not be actually editing chapters, only providing feedback to Maren on those things I need to. )
I digress. Trello is free and easy to use. It has taken me about ten minutes to figure it out and set my self up with a checklist, which I am now working on breaking into Sub-heading groups.
With that said, if anyone would like to join me there to create checklists /progress tracking, If everyone jumped in to use, we could also let the group know where we are because I have made it public for viewing.
So if you want to check it out-here is the link. https://trello.com/b/5MTvCikC/inkscape
If you want to use it, then create an account and then send me your info.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 6:10 PM, Marietta Walker wrote:
I think it will suit me perfectly.
Thanks--Marietta
On 6/4/2017 5:55 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Thank you, Marietta, Carl, and Martin for pointing me into the right direction (hopefully) and for calling for help, and volunteering your time :)
I'm glad to know that people are still interested in helping, but might just not have known how (or, in CR's case, are too busy with other stuff
- believe me, I understand).
Guess I got too used to the standard open source theme of 'grab a task and do it if you're up to it' - and I'm also kind of shy about telling others what to do. I'm sorry about not getting that I should take on a more active, guiding role, to make it easier for new members to join.
@Marietta: What do you think about Martin's suggestion?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:52 schrieb Martin Owens:
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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No thanks for me. (I've already got a whole notebook of login passwords.) But I think Martin has been looking for something like that. Especially if it would give automatic reminders (afaiu).
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Marietta Walker Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 9:59 AM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
Hi all,
I have set myself up with Trello in order to track notes and completion of Chapter review.. (Just to let everyone know I will not be actually editing chapters, only providing feedback to Maren on those things I need to. )
I digress. Trello is free and easy to use. It has taken me about ten minutes to figure it out and set my self up with a checklist, which I am now working on breaking into Sub-heading groups.
With that said, if anyone would like to join me there to create checklists /progress tracking, If everyone jumped in to use, we could also let the group know where we are because I have made it public for viewing.
So if you want to check it out-here is the link. https://trello.com/b/5MTvCikC/inkscape
If you want to use it, then create an account and then send me your info.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 6:10 PM, Marietta Walker wrote:
I think it will suit me perfectly.
Thanks--Marietta
On 6/4/2017 5:55 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Thank you, Marietta, Carl, and Martin for pointing me into the right direction (hopefully) and for calling for help, and volunteering your time :)
I'm glad to know that people are still interested in helping, but might just not have known how (or, in CR's case, are too busy with other stuff
- believe me, I understand).
Guess I got too used to the standard open source theme of 'grab a task and do it if you're up to it' - and I'm also kind of shy about telling others what to do. I'm sorry about not getting that I should take on a more active, guiding role, to make it easier for new members to join.
@Marietta: What do you think about Martin's suggestion?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:52 schrieb Martin Owens:
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hi Marietta,
a kanban board is a good idea, but there are free alternatives which I would prefer to see used, e.g. https://framaboard.org/.
Perhaps you would be willing to extract the tasks from previous messages (esp. the one about the news item to Brynn) and move the board over to framaboard? Also, we would need someone to take care of marking tasks that are done by people who are not registered there as done.
We don't need everyone to have an account, I think - we could also just add their names, when we know they want to work on it.
What do you think, Marietta?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 06.06.2017 um 20:45 schrieb brynn:
No thanks for me. (I've already got a whole notebook of login passwords.) But I think Martin has been looking for something like that. Especially if it would give automatic reminders (afaiu).
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Marietta Walker Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 9:59 AM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
Hi all,
I have set myself up with Trello in order to track notes and completion of Chapter review.. (Just to let everyone know I will not be actually editing chapters, only providing feedback to Maren on those things I need to. )
I digress. Trello is free and easy to use. It has taken me about ten minutes to figure it out and set my self up with a checklist, which I am now working on breaking into Sub-heading groups.
With that said, if anyone would like to join me there to create checklists /progress tracking, If everyone jumped in to use, we could also let the group know where we are because I have made it public for viewing.
So if you want to check it out-here is the link. https://trello.com/b/5MTvCikC/inkscape
If you want to use it, then create an account and then send me your info.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 6:10 PM, Marietta Walker wrote:
I think it will suit me perfectly.
Thanks--Marietta
On 6/4/2017 5:55 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Thank you, Marietta, Carl, and Martin for pointing me into the right direction (hopefully) and for calling for help, and volunteering your time :)
I'm glad to know that people are still interested in helping, but might just not have known how (or, in CR's case, are too busy with other stuff
- believe me, I understand).
Guess I got too used to the standard open source theme of 'grab a task and do it if you're up to it' - and I'm also kind of shy about telling others what to do. I'm sorry about not getting that I should take on a more active, guiding role, to make it easier for new members to join.
@Marietta: What do you think about Martin's suggestion?
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:52 schrieb Martin Owens:
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 13:20 -0500, Marietta Walker wrote:
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
You would make a good editor then, both in the generic sense for English grammar and the functional sense in 'do you understand this'
Is this something you'd be good at helping with?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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Hi Marietta and Everyone, That was my fault. When you first messaged me, I didn't notice that you messaged me privately, off-list. So everything I said, I thought everyone else was reading (except for the last one, where I realized it, and shared some personal info).
One of the things I said, which I thought the whole list was seeing, is getting Marietta's account connected with the manual. I couldn't figure out how to do it. I can see, apparently, everyone who is reg'd for Floss Manuals profiles. But I don't see how to get into them to change anything. I'm not sure if that has happened yet? Looks like not? I'll send Maren your username, and she can get it set properly.
Maren (it's Maren, not Marten) could be called the project manager, but C R and I are also co-admins (just in case Maren is not available for some urgent admin-level need).
For everyone else, Marietta certainly has the kind of skills we can use in this project! It's up to her whether, or how much she wants to participate. Marietta, you could certainly jump in, even if you just notice a word or phrase which could be better. Just to get your feet wet (as soon as your account is set properly).
When you see that you're set up, go to the Notes tab, and read through the guidelines. Then you can decide if there's something you'd like to do.
Sorry for the mix-up. And congrats for sticking with it, and speaking up again.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Marietta Walker Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 12:20 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
Thank you Marten,
I have been in touch with Brynn and I have offered to help if I can. But I too was wondering who is the Project Manager, handling the task analysis and the work assignments. I really don't think you can have a project of this level, with multiple people involved, and not have someone assessing skill levels, tracking task completion, determining milestones, and communicating progress.
Your Project Manager must also be given the authority to ask questions related to the tasks and resources needed to complete the assigned progress and to expect an answer. I have been waiting for someone to contact me related to the skill set I possess to let me know if I can help at all.
Brynn I am sorry, I thought you were the Project Manager, so I shared my skill set with you, thinking you were putting together people and skills.
Maren seems to be moving along and as she mentioned, you do need someone familiar with Inkscape, which I am not. I just started using it a few months ago to do basic 2D drawings for quilting projects.
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 10:09 AM, Martin Owens wrote:
Can someone help Maren?
I feel like a news article and a deviantArt post would be useful for drumming up volunteers.
But also, for a project director when just getting started, it's useful to hand out jobs, so people know that they are needed and that they don't have to think too much about which of the jobs they should do while figuring out the software/editing platform.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep thewider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
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Am 06.06.2017 um 14:20 schrieb brynn:
Hi Marietta and Everyone, That was my fault. When you first messaged me, I didn't notice that you messaged me privately, off-list. So everything I said, I thought everyone else was reading (except for the last one, where I realized it, and shared some personal info).
One of the things I said, which I thought the whole list wasseeing, is getting Marietta's account connected with the manual.
- No need to do that. Just join the group as is described in the email that started this, then start working :)
I couldn't figure out how to do it. I can see, apparently, everyone who is reg'd for Floss Manuals profiles. But I don't see how to get into them to change anything. I'm not sure if that has happened yet? Looks like not? I'll send Maren your username, and she can get it set properly.
Maren (it's Maren, not Marten) could be called the projectmanager, but C R and I are also co-admins (just in case Maren is not available for some urgent admin-level need).
- It's Elisa, CR and you, Brynn, who have admin permissions, in addition to myself as the 'owner' of the book - which doesn't amount to much, because there's not really a lot that an admin can do more than a normal user.
This has been done to ensure that there will be someone at the Hackfest who does have access to all the functionality, in case it's needed, and to have a fallback who can create new versions, in case something happens to me ;-) (we do have too little redundancy in this project in many places). Also, to honor the people who have shown the largest interest in this with some additional responsibility :P
Kind Regards, Maren
For everyone else, Marietta certainly has the kind of skills wecan use in this project! It's up to her whether, or how much she wants to participate. Marietta, you could certainly jump in, even if you just notice a word or phrase which could be better. Just to get your feet wet (as soon as your account is set properly).
When you see that you're set up, go to the Notes tab, and readthrough the guidelines. Then you can decide if there's something you'd like to do.
Sorry for the mix-up. And congrats for sticking with it, andspeaking up again.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Marietta Walker Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 12:20 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
Thank you Marten,
I have been in touch with Brynn and I have offered to help if I can. But I too was wondering who is the Project Manager, handling the task analysis and the work assignments. I really don't think you can have a project of this level, with multiple people involved, and not have someone assessing skill levels, tracking task completion, determining milestones, and communicating progress.
Your Project Manager must also be given the authority to ask questions related to the tasks and resources needed to complete the assigned progress and to expect an answer. I have been waiting for someone to contact me related to the skill set I possess to let me know if I can help at all.
Brynn I am sorry, I thought you were the Project Manager, so I shared my skill set with you, thinking you were putting together people and skills.
Maren seems to be moving along and as she mentioned, you do need someone familiar with Inkscape, which I am not. I just started using it a few months ago to do basic 2D drawings for quilting projects.
If I can help, I will be glad to do so, but I do have limitations in knowing the software.
Regards Marietta
On 6/4/2017 10:09 AM, Martin Owens wrote:
Can someone help Maren?
I feel like a news article and a deviantArt post would be useful for drumming up volunteers.
But also, for a project director when just getting started, it's useful to hand out jobs, so people know that they are needed and that they don't have to think too much about which of the jobs they should do while figuring out the software/editing platform.
Thoughts?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep thewider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
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Thanks Maren for your work! I hope soon can get more help. Sorry the therad about manual become too long and finaly remove atention from me.
The manual is a HTML5, Scribus or...? Whats the TODO list about this?
Cheers, Jabier.
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the wider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi Jabier (and all who are interested in joining),
thank you for your offer!
You can have a look here, it has most of the info and all the important links: https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/35841546/
Jabier, maybe you would like to help with the styling or cover design? I haven't explored all about how much freedom the platform allows us, though.
As this is just a basic, beginners' guide, I think a developer is a bit overqualified for the contents! We could use your help with contents later, when (if) we create a more glossary-like manual, for looking things up. But this would be a separate project, most probably written on a different platform.
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 22:06 schrieb Jabier Arraiza:
Thanks Maren for your work! I hope soon can get more help. Sorry the therad about manual become too long and finaly remove atention from me.
The manual is a HTML5, Scribus or...? Whats the TODO list about this?
Cheers, Jabier.
On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep thewider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about
helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Don't worry, Maren. I'm still on top of helping with the manual. It's just life offline keeps pulling me away from computer lately.
I will start proofing as soon as I can get this moderation stuff settled.
For working on the graphics, as you have outlined, I have some blockers on that. Somewhere I've mentioned them, but I don't think they were answered. (I think I put comments in the Notes tab, below the line of *. But I see now that that line of * is gone, and so are the comments I made.)
Starting on Interface chapter:
1 -- graphics are not proportional, they're stretched long and squeezed side to side 2 -- the interface that's being used, uses a non-default display mode (with command bar on the right) 3 -- the interface is using some custom icon set
Before we start working on the graphics issues, these things need to be addressed, in my opinion (otherwise we might have to eventually duplicate some work).
I think we need to be using the most default interface screenshots as possible. And of course, the graphics should be displayed in proper proportions.
The most important thing to decide, is where the new graphics will come from. Should be someone with not such an ugly theme (color) as mine. Should be someone who is committed to providing the graphics and won't disappear. Should be using a default display mode and icon set.
I wonder if it's possible in Windows, if I make a new user account, that account could use a different theme? I'll investigate. If I can, I'll provide the graphics.
I'm changing the title of this message to start a separate thread on the graphics issues. (I see a long string of replies to making a News item, and I suspect there may be a few different issues. I'm off to read more now :-) (Also switching to only Docs list)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 6:46 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinkingMaren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the widercommunity up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
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Hi Brynn,
Am 06.06.2017 um 13:50 schrieb brynn:
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about
helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Don't worry, Maren. I'm still on top of helping with the manual. It's just life offline keeps pulling me away from computer lately.
- Mine is busy, too.
I will start proofing as soon as I can get this moderation stuff settled.
- Yes, if you could help with fixing language errors, that would be helpful.
For working on the graphics, as you have outlined, I have some blockers on that. Somewhere I've mentioned them, but I don't think they were answered. (I think I put comments in the Notes tab, below the line of *. But I see now that that line of * is gone, and so are the comments I made.)
- Yes, that tab has been wiped.
Starting on Interface chapter:
1 -- graphics are not proportional, they're stretched long and squeezed side to side
2 -- the interface that's being used, uses a non-default display mode (with command bar on the right)
- Yes, this is described in the book. It's the standard display mode new users get when they are using a wide screen (please someone correct me if I'm wrong, my screen is 4:3). Widescreens are standard now, so most users should get that display.
3 -- the interface is using some custom icon set
- It uses the standard icons. All the icons that look different to you are provided by the operating system and look different from your Windows setup, yes (they look the same for me, btw.).
Before we start working on the graphics issues, these things need to be addressed, in my opinion (otherwise we might have to eventually duplicate some work).
- You can leave the picture layouting to someone experienced with web page styling. This also requires coordination with the style person or persons, and some understanding of how the different output formats influence the layout.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
And then, as a native speaker, language fixes would help us, and perhaps compiling that list of frequent issues for the chapter that we would like to add.
Also, I seem to remember there was a glossary chapter that needed to be added.
I think we need to be using the most default interface screenshots as possible. And of course, the graphics should be displayed in proper proportions.
The most important thing to decide, is where the new graphics will come from. Should be someone with not such an ugly theme (color) as mine. Should be someone who is committed to providing the graphics and won't disappear. Should be using a default display mode and icon set.
- CR volunteered for this in another email :D
I wonder if it's possible in Windows, if I make a new user account, that account could use a different theme? I'll investigate. If I can, I'll provide the graphics.
- Let's take one step after the other, Brynn. It's better to finish one thing, then take on the next.
This is also easier for me, because I don't need to be all over the place when I know that a task is being tackled and finished.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Can you get back to us when you are done with that, so we can then find a new task?
(Probably one of: proofreading for language errors, compiling list of frequent basic issues and helpful tricks).
Kind Regards, Maren
I'm changing the title of this message to start a separate thread on the graphics issues. (I see a long string of replies to making a News item, and I suspect there may be a few different issues. I'm off to read more now :-) (Also switching to only Docs list)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 6:46 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the widercommunity up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
- Yes, this is described in the book. It's the standard display mode new
users get when they are using a wide screen (please someone correct me if I'm wrong, my screen is 4:3). Widescreens are standard now, so most users should get that display.
If you're saying that Inkscape is supposed to detect what kind of screen is being used, and automatically set itself accordingly, that's something I've never heard of, or experienced.
Someone told me once that my screen is wide (14 inch laptop) default res 1366 x 768. My View menu shows Default is ticked, and it's the one with the command bar at the top, snap bar on the right. So it's not telling me that Wide is default for me (if that's what you meant).
If it ever did switch me to wide, I would have switched it back immediately. So I'm not sure if I would remember it. I tend to get bizarre mouse actions at times (unintended clicks), so I probably thought that was why, if it had ever been switched.
- It uses the standard icons. All the icons that look different to you
are provided by the operating system and look different from your Windows setup, yes (they look the same for me, btw.).
Oh, is that a Linux set? Uggh....but at least it's easier to change themes with Linux (afaiu), whenever I finally get switched.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that
do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
I haven't started yet. I don't want to duplicate or waste work energy. It seems like it would be less work all around, to just give appropriate names to the new screens and graphics, than to rename them all now, and upload whole new images to relace them later. Or am I missing something about the plans and processes?
Don't we want to change them all? For continuity of the appearances? Or do you mean there are some graphics which don't show the interface or dialogs? Since I can't read the text, or make sense of the meaning of the graphics, I haven't looked at many pages yet. But so far, I've only seen interface graphics.
I wonder if it's possible in Windows, if I make a new user account, that account could use a different theme? I'll investigate. If I can, I'll provide the graphics.
- Let's take one step after the other, Brynn. It's better to finish one thing, then take on the next. __________________
Not sure what you thought I meant. But I was thinking outloud, and wondering if I could provide the graphics after all. I must have missed the message where C R volunteered to make the screens and graphics. (Only saw the front page cover draft.) So that's great! Now I won't bother investigating about a new user account.
Yes, we discussed possibly adding a glossary. And now possibly an faq or troubleshooting or getting unstuck page or section too. They can both wait until after hackfest.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be
deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Wouldn't I need to work with C R (or whoever), to determine which are kept and which are replaced? It seems like some level of coordination and communication should happen for this, rather than 2 different people going at it separately in different ways, possibly making incompatible decisions?
By the way, why does it need to be ready for hackfest? I was thinking the end of the year for a target publishing date, not 3 weeks!
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:22 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs]News item.... graphics issues in manual
Hi Brynn,
Am 06.06.2017 um 13:50 schrieb brynn:
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about
helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Don't worry, Maren. I'm still on top of helping with the manual. It's just life offline keeps pulling me away from computer lately.
- Mine is busy, too.
I will start proofing as soon as I can get this moderation stuff settled.
- Yes, if you could help with fixing language errors, that would be helpful.
For working on the graphics, as you have outlined, I have some blockers on that. Somewhere I've mentioned them, but I don't think they were answered. (I think I put comments in the Notes tab, below the line of *. But I see now that that line of * is gone, and so are the comments I made.)
- Yes, that tab has been wiped.
Starting on Interface chapter:
1 -- graphics are not proportional, they're stretched long and squeezed side to side
2 -- the interface that's being used, uses a non-default display mode (with command bar on the right)
- Yes, this is described in the book. It's the standard display mode new users get when they are using a wide screen (please someone correct me if I'm wrong, my screen is 4:3). Widescreens are standard now, so most users should get that display.
3 -- the interface is using some custom icon set
- It uses the standard icons. All the icons that look different to you are provided by the operating system and look different from your Windows setup, yes (they look the same for me, btw.).
Before we start working on the graphics issues, these things need to be addressed, in my opinion (otherwise we might have to eventually duplicate some work).
- You can leave the picture layouting to someone experienced with web page styling. This also requires coordination with the style person or persons, and some understanding of how the different output formats influence the layout.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
And then, as a native speaker, language fixes would help us, and perhaps compiling that list of frequent issues for the chapter that we would like to add.
Also, I seem to remember there was a glossary chapter that needed to be added.
I think we need to be using the most default interface screenshots as possible. And of course, the graphics should be displayed in proper proportions.
The most important thing to decide, is where the new graphics will come from. Should be someone with not such an ugly theme (color) as mine. Should be someone who is committed to providing the graphics and won't disappear. Should be using a default display mode and icon set.
- CR volunteered for this in another email :D
I wonder if it's possible in Windows, if I make a new user account, that account could use a different theme? I'll investigate. If I can, I'll provide the graphics.
- Let's take one step after the other, Brynn. It's better to finish one thing, then take on the next.
This is also easier for me, because I don't need to be all over the place when I know that a task is being tackled and finished.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Can you get back to us when you are done with that, so we can then find a new task?
(Probably one of: proofreading for language errors, compiling list of frequent basic issues and helpful tricks).
Kind Regards, Maren
I'm changing the title of this message to start a separate thread on the graphics issues. (I see a long string of replies to making a News item, and I suspect there may be a few different issues. I'm off to read more now :-) (Also switching to only Docs list)
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 6:46 AM To: inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 chapters each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through (35 chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be seen around, after the first week, when one person translated a chapter (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be rewritten from scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a couple of chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone seems to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were supposed to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug).
I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting people get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through with translating.
I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal about helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 weeks already. But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't started this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what.
Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations will be ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing through my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I expect to not have time for much else.
I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with the manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and know Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really do well, like fixing up language or styling).
There are more than enough open tasks: from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency checking and layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to adding missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course).
And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to honor the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept of the book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it to get started, without much theoretical ballast. Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she built up the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect her concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses.
Maren
Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R:
I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it.
If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :)
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :)
-C
On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:
Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual?
I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'mthinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it.
I think it would help in community-building, to keep the widercommunity up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think?
All best, brynn
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Am 07.06.2017 um 03:08 schrieb brynn:
If you're saying that Inkscape is supposed to detect what kind of screen is being used, and automatically set itself accordingly, that's something I've never heard of, or experienced.
- According to the program code, if width/height > 1.65, Inkscape will switch to 'Wide' mode. You could try it out by removing / renaming your preferences file. I suspect you have moved it from your old computer. Let's stick to that for screenshots, it makes sense. If it doesn't work, it's a bug.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that
do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
I haven't started yet. I don't want to duplicate or waste work energy. It seems like it would be less work all around, to just give appropriate names to the new screens and graphics, than to rename them all now, and upload whole new images to relace them later. Or am I missing something about the plans and processes?
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be
deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Wouldn't I need to work with C R (or whoever), to determine which are kept and which are replaced? It seems like some level of coordination and communication should happen for this, rather than 2 different people going at it separately in different ways, possibly making incompatible decisions?
- CR is there for talking, but I trust that you can figure out if an image is just a tool icon, or contains a drawing without text, and does not need to be re-created. You might even use gimp to cut off some French text. This would speed up manual creation quite a bit. Improvements can be done later.
By the way, why does it need to be ready for hackfest? I was thinking the end of the year for a target publishing date, not 3 weeks!
- Ready as in 'translated' and ready to work on and test out for people speaking English.
Kind Regards, Maren
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want
to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
No, I don't mind doing it. I just need to be clear what the goal is and what the parameters are. Although I won't be happy if I rename files and find out later that they're going to be replaced.
Here you seem to be asking me to make the screenshots. But in a different message, I thought you said that CR had volunteered. Maybe I misunderstood somewhere? But I don't have a very pretty theme color.
How about if I make a list of all the ones that need to be replaced, and give the list to C R. Then he could make them with the default Windows theme, and either upload them himself, or send to me and I'll upload?
Not sure about developers spending time reviewing the manual at hackfest, when time is at such a premium, with travel expenses and all. It seems like after hackfest would be better. Plus do we really need reviews from advanced users? New users would seem better for sources of reviews?
But I can finish my part before hackfest. If C R has time to make them, I'm sure we can finish the whole thing by that time. Or even if you want me to try making another user account, to find out if it could use a different theme. Then I could make the screenshots.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 7:50 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs]News item.... graphics issues in manual
Am 07.06.2017 um 03:08 schrieb brynn:
If you're saying that Inkscape is supposed to detect what kind of screen is being used, and automatically set itself accordingly, that's something I've never heard of, or experienced.
- According to the program code, if width/height > 1.65, Inkscape will switch to 'Wide' mode. You could try it out by removing / renaming your preferences file. I suspect you have moved it from your old computer. Let's stick to that for screenshots, it makes sense. If it doesn't work, it's a bug.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that
do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
I haven't started yet. I don't want to duplicate or waste work energy. It seems like it would be less work all around, to just give appropriate names to the new screens and graphics, than to rename them all now, and upload whole new images to relace them later. Or am I missing something about the plans and processes?
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be
deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Wouldn't I need to work with C R (or whoever), to determine which are kept and which are replaced? It seems like some level of coordination and communication should happen for this, rather than 2 different people going at it separately in different ways, possibly making incompatible decisions?
- CR is there for talking, but I trust that you can figure out if an image is just a tool icon, or contains a drawing without text, and does not need to be re-created. You might even use gimp to cut off some French text. This would speed up manual creation quite a bit. Improvements can be done later.
By the way, why does it need to be ready for hackfest? I was thinking the end of the year for a target publishing date, not 3 weeks!
- Ready as in 'translated' and ready to work on and test out for people speaking English.
Kind Regards, Maren
For Martin:
Are we working on the project at Gitlab titled: Inkscape\Inkscape-docs\manuals or are you creating another project? If we keep it under one large generic heading such as the above mentioned, then we can track sub projects under one umbrella, English Translation for Inkscape Beginners/Dutch Translation for "Whatever/etc. Am I making any sense?
Also do I need to add SSH to my account?
Since I am completely unfamiliar with Gitlab, I am wanting to get in there and learn and get started.
Thanks
On 6/6/2017 10:15 PM, brynn wrote:
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want
to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
No, I don't mind doing it. I just need to be clear what the goal is and what the parameters are. Although I won't be happy if I rename files and find out later that they're going to be replaced.
Here you seem to be asking me to make the screenshots. But in a different message, I thought you said that CR had volunteered. Maybe I misunderstood somewhere? But I don't have a very pretty theme color.
How about if I make a list of all the ones that need to be replaced, and give the list to C R. Then he could make them with the default Windows theme, and either upload them himself, or send to me and I'll upload?
Not sure about developers spending time reviewing the manual at hackfest, when time is at such a premium, with travel expenses and all. It seems like after hackfest would be better. Plus do we really need reviews from advanced users? New users would seem better for sources of reviews?
But I can finish my part before hackfest. If C R has time to make them, I'm sure we can finish the whole thing by that time. Or even if you want me to try making another user account, to find out if it could use a different theme. Then I could make the screenshots.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 7:50 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs]News item.... graphics issues in manual
Am 07.06.2017 um 03:08 schrieb brynn:
If you're saying that Inkscape is supposed to detect what kind of screen is being used, and automatically set itself accordingly, that's something I've never heard of, or experienced.
- According to the program code, if width/height > 1.65, Inkscape will
switch to 'Wide' mode. You could try it out by removing / renaming your preferences file. I suspect you have moved it from your old computer. Let's stick to that for screenshots, it makes sense. If it doesn't work, it's a bug.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that
do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
I haven't started yet. I don't want to duplicate or waste work energy. It seems like it would be less work all around, to just give appropriate names to the new screens and graphics, than to rename them all now, and upload whole new images to relace them later. Or am I missing something about the plans and processes?
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want
to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be
deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Wouldn't I need to work with C R (or whoever), to determine which are kept and which are replaced? It seems like some level of coordination and communication should happen for this, rather than 2 different people going at it separately in different ways, possibly making incompatible decisions?
- CR is there for talking, but I trust that you can figure out if an
image is just a tool icon, or contains a drawing without text, and does not need to be re-created. You might even use gimp to cut off some French text. This would speed up manual creation quite a bit. Improvements can be done later.
By the way, why does it need to be ready for hackfest? I was thinking the end of the year for a target publishing date, not 3 weeks!
- Ready as in 'translated' and ready to work on and test out for people
speaking English.
Kind Regards, Maren
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hi Marietta,
I now have master permissions on the linked project, and have added you as a developer there. Also assigned you to your first task :)
You don't need SSH to just work on the issues section. We will not use the repository for anything but the README file currently.
Translations are far in the future, let's start with the task at hand. Try to keep the overhead small (short issue texts, concise descriptions).
If you like, you can create an issue for 'We need to figure out how translations of the manual can be created and tracked' (proposed solution: just make a copy of the book on flossmanuals, then translate, organize translators via issue on gitlab, use issue tags to specify language.).
Kind Regards, Maren
Am 07.06.2017 um 06:41 schrieb Marietta Walker:
For Martin:
Are we working on the project at Gitlab titled: Inkscape\Inkscape-docs\manuals or are you creating another project? If we keep it under one large generic heading such as the above mentioned, then we can track sub projects under one umbrella, English Translation for Inkscape Beginners/Dutch Translation for "Whatever/etc. Am I making any sense?
Also do I need to add SSH to my account?
Since I am completely unfamiliar with Gitlab, I am wanting to get in there and learn and get started.
Thanks
On 6/6/2017 10:15 PM, brynn wrote:
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want
to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
No, I don't mind doing it. I just need to be clear what the goal is and what the parameters are. Although I won't be happy if I rename files and find out later that they're going to be replaced.
Here you seem to be asking me to make the screenshots. But in a different message, I thought you said that CR had volunteered. Maybe I misunderstood somewhere? But I don't have a very pretty theme color.
How about if I make a list of all the ones that need to be replaced, and give the list to C R. Then he could make them with the default Windows theme, and either upload them himself, or send to me and I'll upload?
Not sure about developers spending time reviewing the manual at hackfest, when time is at such a premium, with travel expenses and all. It seems like after hackfest would be better. Plus do we really need reviews from advanced users? New users would seem better for sources of reviews?
But I can finish my part before hackfest. If C R has time to make them, I'm sure we can finish the whole thing by that time. Or even if you want me to try making another user account, to find out if it could use a different theme. Then I could make the screenshots.
All best, brynn
-----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 7:50 PM To: brynn ; Inkscape-Docs Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs]News item.... graphics issues in manual
Am 07.06.2017 um 03:08 schrieb brynn:
If you're saying that Inkscape is supposed to detect what kind of screen is being used, and automatically set itself accordingly, that's something I've never heard of, or experienced.
- According to the program code, if width/height > 1.65, Inkscape will
switch to 'Wide' mode. You could try it out by removing / renaming your preferences file. I suspect you have moved it from your old computer. Let's stick to that for screenshots, it makes sense. If it doesn't work, it's a bug.
It would be helpful if you could continue with renaming the images that
do not need to be changed - i.e. the tool icons, or drawings without any text or menus shown.
I haven't started yet. I don't want to duplicate or waste work energy. It seems like it would be less work all around, to just give appropriate names to the new screens and graphics, than to rename them all now, and upload whole new images to relace them later. Or am I missing something about the plans and processes?
- We will delete some, and keep those that are good. If you don't want
to work on this, then we can add this to the task list, for someone else to grab.
Can you go through the images, and rename all the files that will not be
deleted, so they will be understandable when others look at them at Hackfest time?
Wouldn't I need to work with C R (or whoever), to determine which are kept and which are replaced? It seems like some level of coordination and communication should happen for this, rather than 2 different people going at it separately in different ways, possibly making incompatible decisions?
- CR is there for talking, but I trust that you can figure out if an
image is just a tool icon, or contains a drawing without text, and does not need to be re-created. You might even use gimp to cut off some French text. This would speed up manual creation quite a bit. Improvements can be done later.
By the way, why does it need to be ready for hackfest? I was thinking the end of the year for a target publishing date, not 3 weeks!
- Ready as in 'translated' and ready to work on and test out for people
speaking English.
Kind Regards, Maren
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participants (5)
-
brynn -
Jabier Arraiza -
Maren Hachmann -
Marietta Walker -
Martin Owens