Hi people,
A week ago I was in Zagreb on Open Translation Tools 2007 conference. One of the guys there wa Adam Hyde who created http://flossmanuals.net/. This is a website based on twiki which is multilingual by design. You can create/edit content, translate content etc. It outputs PDF, HTML and zipped HTML, maybe even more.
Do we want to invest time into figuring out how it might fit our workflow?
Alexandre
Thanks, Alexandre!
I looked at the site and it looks like it might work really well for us. I contacted Adam Hyde, who is now monitoring this list. FM was already interested in doing some Inkscape docs, though unofficially, I believe, so they're interested in helping us.
The main issues I asked about were:
-can we write original content in multiple languages within the same manual so that it can be translated easily to others -can we have multiple authors -can we import what we have easily
The answer appears to be yes for all of those, but we'll need to discuss what our options are with him. Adam, since you're listening now, I think that our first topic of discussion with you should be the multi-lingual authorship (if everyone here agrees). What are the possibilities we have for this? Ideally any user would be able to write original content in any language, and that content would be available to translate into any other language. I know we're probably limited on how this will work - can you give us some details?
Adam has set up our test manual at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Inkscape_docs
Adam, is this solely a test place, or will it become our functional manual eventually? I think the answer to that question will determine how much we're willing to mess it up while we play with it :)
Also, can you tell us what our export format options are? I think that's interesting to us, since it could make wrapping the manual for releases very easy.
If I understand correctly, you said we could import xhtml into the FM format. How would we have to set it up? Would it take a monolithic document, or separated by chapter, or something else?
One other important point of discussion was the option for an more community-driven set of docs/how-tos. I think it might be nice to have "Inkscape Docs" as well as "Inkscape Manual" on FM. The manual would be the official Inkscape documentation (as it is now), and we could draw on good stuff from the docs also. But the docs section would be a great place for things (such as tutorials/how-tos) that don't belong in the manual. And this way, everything would be easily accessible and editable by anyone who want to use / contribute. How does that sound?
I hope I have not left anything out. Oh, Adam, thank you (and Floss Manuals people) for your time and help!
JF
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Hi people,
A week ago I was in Zagreb on Open Translation Tools 2007 conference. One of the guys there wa Adam Hyde who created http://flossmanuals.net/. This is a website based on twiki which is multilingual by design. You can create/edit content, translate content etc. It outputs PDF, HTML and zipped HTML, maybe even more.
Do we want to invest time into figuring out how it might fit our workflow?
Alexandre
SF.Net email is sponsored by: Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
hi Joshua and the Inkscape Docs team :)
-can we write original content in multiple languages within the same manual so that it can be translated easily to others -can we have multiple authors -can we import what we have easily
The answer appears to be yes for all of those, but we'll need to discuss what our options are with him.
All those are possible. I think it is really important that the doc team gets familiar with FLOSS Manuals and how it works. This is best through creating an account and some content.
We have built FM for collaboratively writing quality documentation on free softwares. We built it because there are no equivalent systems available. So we can offer you a tool set specific to creating documentation collaboratively, and the opportunity to shape that tool set to meet your needs. However because there are no equivalent systems you should give yourself some time to get used to the workflow.
By creating some content you will get an idea of how FM works, and will help shape the discussion on how to use FM and how we can help to meet your needs.
Adam, since you're listening now, I think that our first topic of discussion with you should be the multi-lingual authorship (if everyone here agrees). What are the possibilities we have for this? Ideally any user would be able to write original content in any language, and that content would be available to translate into any other language. I know we're probably limited on how this will work - can you give us some details?
There are a few options that already exist for this or we can do some dev work to shape something that more readily fits what the doc team would like. I think the second option is probably only possible after you have had some experience with the system and you can see what it is like you would like to change.
As a starter, I recommend making a new chapter for each topic in each language. For example if you wished to create the following structure:
Introduction to Inkscape What are Vector Graphics Installing on Ubuntu Creating a New Image
You could author the content in language specific chapters like so: Introduction to Inkscape_fr Introduction to Inkscape_en What are Vector Graphics_en What are Vector Graphics_de Installing on Ubuntu_de Creating a New Image_fr
Adam has set up our test manual at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Inkscape_docs
Adam, is this solely a test place, or will it become our functional manual eventually? I think the answer to that question will determine how much we're willing to mess it up while we play with it :)
I think it is important for you and the doc team to get used to how FM works first so lets treat this as a test space. When you are ready I can either clean it out or create a new clean manual for you.
Also, can you tell us what our export format options are? I think that's interesting to us, since it could make wrapping the manual for releases very easy.
At the moment we enable export to indexed PDF and HTML. We are currently working on linking the output to other formats including (at first) man pages and docbook.
We are also building the print on demand processes so manuals can be published directly to a print on demand system. We currently use lulu.com for this but the process is more manual they we would like. If we automate it on our server side then you would be able to update the manual and publish the updates to print on demand copy which would eb uploaded directly to lulu.
Additionally we have a api for including manuals in webpages by cutting and pasting a few lines of html. This might be of interest to your team as you can create content in FM and host it on your domain.
If I understand correctly, you said we could import xhtml into the FM format. How would we have to set it up?
All content is stored in xhtml. So just copy and paste the html from your current docs into new chapters in FM.
Would it take a monolithic document, or separated by chapter, or something else?
Manuals are broken down to chapters. My recommendation is : * one topic per chapter * one H1 per chapter
You create new chapters from within the repository homepage for the manual, ie: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Inkscape_docs
Here you will find an option to 'Create a new chapter'
One other important point of discussion was the option for an more community-driven set of docs/how-tos. I think it might be nice to have "Inkscape Docs" as well as "Inkscape Manual" on FM.
ok, sounds great.
The manual would be the official Inkscape documentation (as it is now), and we could draw on good stuff from the docs also. But the docs section would be a great place for things (such as tutorials/how-tos) that don't belong in the manual. And this way, everything would be easily accessible and editable by anyone who want to use / contribute. How does that sound?
Sounds good. You can have as many manuals as you like. You can also include chapters from one manual in another using %INCLUDE% statements, but when you need these I can walk you through how to use them.
I hope I have not left anything out. Oh, Adam, thank you (and Floss Manuals people) for your time and help!
We are very happy the Inkscape doc team would like to utilise what we have built for your documentation! If there is anything we can do to help make the system work better for you or assist with using it then please let me know. I would also recommend to anyone interested that they join the FM list as you can also discuss things there about the system: http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net
adam
JF
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Hi people,
A week ago I was in Zagreb on Open Translation Tools 2007 conference. One of the guys there wa Adam Hyde who created http://flossmanuals.net/. This is a website based on twiki which is multilingual by design. You can create/edit content, translate content etc. It outputs PDF, HTML and zipped HTML, maybe even more.
Do we want to invest time into figuring out how it might fit our workflow?
Alexandre
SF.Net email is sponsored by: Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hello,
Using Floss Manual is a good idea :-) I test it yesterday and now, it's much more simplier of Docbook.
It's : - easy to creat chapter, - to write the text and edit it, - to see all the revision, - a good help for many authors, - a good help to join a community of writer.
Le Friday 15 February 2008 20:55:39 adam hyde, vous avez écrit :
hi Joshua and the Inkscape Docs team :)
-can we write original content in multiple languages within the same manual so that it can be translated easily to others -can we have multiple authors -can we import what we have easily
The answer appears to be yes for all of those, but we'll need to discuss what our options are with him.
All those are possible. I think it is really important that the doc team gets familiar with FLOSS Manuals and how it works. This is best through creating an account and some content.
That's why i make some test. I have play with all the button. It's ok i think. I see how put images but we don't have any folder to our project (inkscape) where i can creat it ?
Do you think we can import all our docbook into the FM easily ? About it i don't know if we need that because we have a new TOC and all the content have to be (remanier) reorganized the text. (Scuse my english i understand better than a write it. That's why i never do translation.)
We have built FM for collaboratively writing quality documentation on free softwares. We built it because there are no equivalent systems available. So we can offer you a tool set specific to creating documentation collaboratively, and the opportunity to shape that tool set to meet your needs. However because there are no equivalent systems you should give yourself some time to get used to the workflow.
By creating some content you will get an idea of how FM works, and will help shape the discussion on how to use FM and how we can help to meet your needs.
Adam, since you're listening now, I think that our first topic of discussion with you should be the multi-lingual authorship (if everyone here agrees). What are the possibilities we have for this? Ideally any user would be able to write original content in any language, and that content would be available to translate into any other language. I know we're probably limited on how this will work - can you give us some details?
There are a few options that already exist for this or we can do some dev work to shape something that more readily fits what the doc team would like. I think the second option is probably only possible after you have had some experience with the system and you can see what it is like you would like to change.
As a starter, I recommend making a new chapter for each topic in each language. For example if you wished to create the following structure:
Introduction to Inkscape What are Vector Graphics Installing on Ubuntu Creating a New Image
You could author the content in language specific chapters like so: Introduction to Inkscape_fr Introduction to Inkscape_en What are Vector Graphics_en What are Vector Graphics_de Installing on Ubuntu_de Creating a New Image_fr
Ok we can start like this idea (chapter-en, chapter-fr). But it will be possible to have some chapter different in each langages. We can talk about this after when the situation will exist.
Adam has set up our test manual at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Inkscape_docs
Adam, is this solely a test place, or will it become our functional manual eventually? I think the answer to that question will determine how much we're willing to mess it up while we play with it :)
I think it is important for you and the doc team to get used to how FM works first so lets treat this as a test space. When you are ready I can either clean it out or create a new clean manual for you.
Ok i begun to write and paste no serious content. But before start we need to see if it's easier for us to import all the content into FM or reorganized. Joshua what do you think ?
Maybe i can see if it's quick to start of nothing. If it's too long, we can import our (old) docbook. (i'm clear ?)
Also, can you tell us what our export format options are? I think that's interesting to us, since it could make wrapping the manual for releases very easy.
At the moment we enable export to indexed PDF and HTML. We are currently working on linking the output to other formats including (at first) man pages and docbook.
We are also building the print on demand processes so manuals can be published directly to a print on demand system. We currently use lulu.com for this but the process is more manual they we would like. If we automate it on our server side then you would be able to update the manual and publish the updates to print on demand copy which would eb uploaded directly to lulu.
Additionally we have a api for including manuals in webpages by cutting and pasting a few lines of html. This might be of interest to your team as you can create content in FM and host it on your domain.
ok
If I understand correctly, you said we could import xhtml into the FM format. How would we have to set it up?
All content is stored in xhtml. So just copy and paste the html from your current docs into new chapters in FM.
ok
Would it take a monolithic document, or separated by chapter, or something else?
Manuals are broken down to chapters. My recommendation is :
- one topic per chapter
- one H1 per chapter
You create new chapters from within the repository homepage for the manual, ie: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Inkscape_docs
Here you will find an option to 'Create a new chapter'
One other important point of discussion was the option for an more community-driven set of docs/how-tos. I think it might be nice to have "Inkscape Docs" as well as "Inkscape Manual" on FM.
ok, sounds great.
The manual would be the official Inkscape documentation (as it is now), and we could draw on good stuff from the docs also. But the docs section would be a great place for things (such as tutorials/how-tos) that don't belong in the manual. And this way, everything would be easily accessible and editable by anyone who want to use / contribute. How does that sound?
Sounds good. You can have as many manuals as you like. You can also include chapters from one manual in another using %INCLUDE% statements, but when you need these I can walk you through how to use them.
I hope I have not left anything out. Oh, Adam, thank you (and Floss Manuals people) for your time and help!
We are very happy the Inkscape doc team would like to utilise what we have built for your documentation! If there is anything we can do to help make the system work better for you or assist with using it then please let me know. I would also recommend to anyone interested that they join the FM list as you can also discuss things there about the system: http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net
Thanks Alexandre to have discover them. Thanks Joshua to have creat contact. Thanks Adam to help us!
Pygmee, this idea sounds good. I know you know a lot with docbook and you are familiar with it. I do not suceed with it. I prefer the big help from FM and take time only in creat content.
Elisa
adam
JF
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Hi people,
A week ago I was in Zagreb on Open Translation Tools 2007 conference. One of the guys there wa Adam Hyde who created http://flossmanuals.net/. This is a website based on twiki which is multilingual by design. You can create/edit content, translate content etc. It outputs PDF, HTML and zipped HTML, maybe even more.
Do we want to invest time into figuring out how it might fit our workflow?
Alexandre
hi,
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 17:32 +0100, Elisa-yemanja wrote:
Hello,
Using Floss Manual is a good idea :-) I test it yesterday and now, it's much more simplier of Docbook.
It's :
- easy to creat chapter,
- to write the text and edit it,
- to see all the revision,
- a good help for many authors,
- a good help to join a community of writer.
Great! I am glad you like using the system Elisa and can find your way around.
The answer appears to be yes for all of those, but we'll need to discuss what our options are with him.
All those are possible. I think it is really important that the doc team gets familiar with FLOSS Manuals and how it works. This is best through creating an account and some content.
That's why i make some test. I have play with all the button. It's ok i think. I see how put images but we don't have any folder to our project (inkscape) where i can creat it ?
You can create a new folder in the images folder. I just made one for you called 'Inkscape_docs' to get you started.
Do you think we can import all our docbook into the FM easily ? About it i don't know if we need that because we have a new TOC and all the content have to be (remanier) reorganized the text. (Scuse my english i understand better than a write it. That's why i never do translation.)
Are the docs you are talking about the same as the ones online?
You could author the content in language specific chapters like so: Introduction to Inkscape_fr Introduction to Inkscape_en What are Vector Graphics_en What are Vector Graphics_de Installing on Ubuntu_de Creating a New Image_fr
Ok we can start like this idea (chapter-en, chapter-fr). But it will be possible to have some chapter different in each langages. We can talk about this after when the situation will exist.
I think it is possible to work it the way you wish. When it comes time and you have a specific example then let me know and we can talk about it then.
Thanks Alexandre to have discover them. Thanks Joshua to have creat contact. Thanks Adam to help us!
no problem, very happy to help :)
adam
Adam Hyde FLOSS Manuals
Adam,
I have begun the serious thing in Inkscape.
I observe a little problem. When i toogle code HTML/wysiwyg all the special french characters become very strange. What can i do to resolve this issue ?
ex : "sélectionné" and not more "sélectionné"
On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 19:50 +0100, Elisa-yemanja wrote:
Adam,
I have begun the serious thing in Inkscape.
I observe a little problem. When i toogle code HTML/wysiwyg all the special french characters become very strange. What can i do to resolve this issue ?
ex : "sélectionné" and not more "sélectionné"
hi Elisa,
Thanks for this information. Could you try it again and let me know if the behaviour is still the same? (I changed a config file which should clean it up).
Kind regards,
adam
Le Tuesday 19 February 2008 11:42:33 adam hyde, vous avez écrit :
On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 19:50 +0100, Elisa-yemanja wrote:
Adam,
I have begun the serious thing in Inkscape.
I observe a little problem. When i toogle code HTML/wysiwyg all the special french characters become very strange. What can i do to resolve this issue ?
ex : "sélectionné" and not more "sélectionné"
hi Elisa,
Thanks for this information. Could you try it again and let me know if the behaviour is still the same? (I changed a config file which should clean it up).
It's ok now, thanks a lot :)
Kind regards,
adam
participants (4)
-
adam hyde -
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Elisa-yemanja -
Joshua Facemyer / Impressus Art