Code style example + FLOSS manual
Hi all,
My work of translating the website into French progresses a lot. Maren: German won't dominate much longer (oh, mamamia, you should hurry!).
On this page, in this section: https://inkscape.org/en/develop/coding-style/#file-layout I've noticed the last sentence… which is a bit… alone. It requires a code example, which I couldn't find. Could someone here add it?
Also, I see on the TODO-list: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ ‘French-to-English translation: A group of French speaking community members wrote a new "Introduction to Inkscape" manual. To enable further translations, we need an English translation of this user centered manual first.’ I am not a good English speaker or writer (I let you judge) but we could do that in two steps: I could start an approximate translation to English and someone could then make a real English text of it (ow, what a tedious work…). Are you okay? Brynn, would you do that? (In any case, I think I am a better translator than Google for French ⇒ English.)
(And thanks for your previous replies to my request; I finally chose another manual.) -- Sylvain
Good evening, Sylvain,
Am 03.04.2016 um 23:00 schrieb Sylvain Chiron:
Hi all,
My work of translating the website into French progresses a lot. Maren: German won't dominate much longer (oh, mamamia, you should hurry!).
- I didn't know there was a race.
On this page, in this section: https://inkscape.org/en/develop/coding-style/#file-layout I've noticed the last sentence… which is a bit… alone. It requires a code example, which I couldn't find. Could someone here add it?
- Seems that was a CMS plugin that was lost along the way.
CMS Pygments plugin - color coded code example. I've rescued these 4 from my cms backups now, it must have been one of the following code bits (I think it's the second one, as I remember the code you're asking about contained Krzysztof's name.)
Could you convert the formatting back to unicode, Sylvain, so it will look alright and insert as <code> into the correct place?
I don't know where the other three are missing - if you can figure that out, we can reinsert those into their corresponding places, too.
namespace Inkscape {\r\nnamespace UI {\r\n\r\nSandwich make_sandwich(int x);\r\nint make_a_mess(float y);\r\n\r \n} // namespace UI\r\n} // namespace Inkscape\r\n\r\nclass Bunkum\r\n : public Nonsense\r\n , protected PublicSpeech\r\n{\r\n public:\r\n Bunkum()\r\n : _x(1024)\r\n , _y(42)\r\n {}\r\nprivate:\r\n void _forget();\r\n int _x, _y;\r\ n};\r\n\r\ntemplate <typename Basket>\r\nvoid fill_basket(Basket &b)\r\n{\r\n switch (a) {\r\n case 1:\r\n do_one();\r\ n break;\r\n\r\n case 2:\r\n do_two();\r\n break;\r\n\r\n default:\r\n break;\r\n }\r\n\r\n for (int i = 0; i < 30; ++i) {\r\n b << Inkscape::UI::make_sandwich();\r\n }\r\n return b;\r\n}
/** @file\r\n * Selector component (click and rubberband)\r\n *//*\r\n * Authors:\r\n * Krzysztof Kosi\u0144ski <tweenk.pl@...2...>\r\n *\r\n * Copyright (C) 2009 Authors\r\n * Released under GNU GPL, read the file 'COPYING' for more information\r\n */\r\n\r\n#ifndef SEEN_UI_TOOL_SELECTOR_H\r\n#define SEEN_UI_TOOL_SELECTOR_H\r\n\r\n#include <memory>\r\n#include <gdk/gdk.h>\r\n#include <2geom/rect.h>\r\n#include "ui/tool/manipulator.h"\r\n\r\nclass SPDesktop;\r\nclass CtrlRect;\r\n\r\nnamespace Inkscape {\r\nnamespace UI {\r\n\r\nclass SelectorPoint;\r\n\r\nclass Selector : public Manipulator {\r\npublic:\r\n Selector(SPDesktop *d);\r\n virtual ~Selector();\r\n virtual bool event(SPEventContext *, GdkEvent *);\r\n \r\n sigc::signal<void, Geom::Rect const &, GdkEventButton*> signal_area;\r\n sigc::signal<void, Geom::Point const &, GdkEventButton*> signal_point;\r\nprivate:\r\n SelectorPoint *_dragger;\r\n Geom::Point _start;\r\n CtrlRect *_rubber;\r\n gulong _connection;\r\n bool _cancel;\r\n friend class SelectorPoint;\r\n};\r\n\r\n} // namespace UI\r\n} // namespace Inkscape\r\n\r\n#endif\r\n\r\n/*\r\n Local Variables:\r\n mode:c++\r\n c-file-style:"stroustrup"\r\n c-file-offsets:((innamespace . 0)(inline-open . 0)(case-label . +))\r\n indent-tabs-mode:nil\r\n fill-column:99\r\n End:\r\n*/\r\n// vim: filetype=cpp:expandtab:shiftwidth=4:tabstop=8:softtabstop=4:fileencoding=utf-8:textwidth=99 :
#define SOME_MACRO(x) x\r\nvoid call_global();\r\nunsigned const IMPORTANT_CONSTANT = 42;\r\n\r\nclass Example {\r\npublic:\r\n void callPublic();\r\n static void call_public_static();\r\n int public_variable;\r\nprotected:\r\n void _callProtected();\r\n static void _call_protected_static();\r\n int _protected_variable;\r\nprivate:\r\n void _callPrivate();\r\n static void _call_private_static();\r\n int _private_variable;\r\n};\r\n\r\ntemplate <typename TypeParam, int INTEGER_PARAM>\r\nvoid call_global_template(boost::array<TypeParam, INTEGER_PARAM> const &array);
#define SOME_MACRO(x) x\r\nvoid call_global();\r\nunsigned const IMPORTANT_CONSTANT = 42;\r\n\r\nclass Example {\r\npublic:\r\n void callPublic();\r\n static void call_public_static();\r\n int public_variable;\r\nprotected:\r\n void _callProtected();\r\n static void _call_protected_static();\r\n int _protected_variable;\r\nprivate:\r\n void _callPrivate();\r\n static void _call_private_static();\r\n int _private_variable;\r\n};\r\n\r\ntemplate <typename TypeParam, int INTEGER_PARAM>\r\nvoid call_global_template(boost::array<TypeParam, INTEGER_PARAM> const &array);
Maren
Also, I see on the TODO-list: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ ‘French-to-English translation: A group of French speaking community members wrote a new "Introduction to Inkscape" manual. To enable further translations, we need an English translation of this user centered manual first.’ I am not a good English speaker or writer (I let you judge) but we could do that in two steps: I could start an approximate translation to English and someone could then make a real English text of it (ow, what a tedious work…). Are you okay? Brynn, would you do that? (In any case, I think I am a better translator than Google for French ⇒ English.)
(And thanks for your previous replies to my request; I finally chose another manual.)
Sylvain
- Seems that was a CMS plugin that was lost along the way.
CMS Pygments plugin - color coded code example. I've rescued these 4 from my cms backups now, it must have been one of the following code bits (I think it's the second one, as I remember the code you're asking about contained Krzysztof's name.)
Yeah, it's certainly this one as it contains the parts evoked in the corresponding section.
Could you convert the formatting back to unicode, Sylvain, so it will look alright and insert as <code> into the correct place?
I don't know how to convert efficiently; I re-formatted at hand with a text editor and a Find&Replace tool. You mean, insert as <pre>? I did it on the French version.
I don't know where the other three are missing - if you can figure that out, we can reinsert those into their corresponding places, too.
Probably on the same page: they demonstrate other elements of the coding style. I put the codes on the page: https://inkscape.org/fr/developper/style-du-code-source/ Please check everything's good and copy it to the English version. The codes look a bit big; we could reduce the font size, or put them in a fixed-height block with a scrollbar…
Also, I see on the TODO-list: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ ‘French-to-English translation: A group of French speaking community members wrote a new "Introduction to Inkscape" manual. To enable further translations, we need an English translation of this user centered manual first.’ I am not a good English speaker or writer (I let you judge) but we could do that in two steps: I could start an approximate translation to English and someone could then make a real English text of it (ow, what a tedious work…). Are you okay? Brynn, would you do that? (In any case, I think I am a better translator than Google for French ⇒ English.)
I am still waiting for my answer (but I might start before you give it to me). -- Sylvain
Hi Sylvain,
Am 04.04.2016 um 20:33 schrieb Sylvain Chiron:
- Seems that was a CMS plugin that was lost along the way.
CMS Pygments plugin - color coded code example. I've rescued these 4 from my cms backups now, it must have been one of the following code bits (I think it's the second one, as I remember the code you're asking about contained Krzysztof's name.)
Yeah, it's certainly this one as it contains the parts evoked in the corresponding section.
Could you convert the formatting back to unicode, Sylvain, so it will look alright and insert as <code> into the correct place?
I don't know how to convert efficiently; I re-formatted at hand with a text editor and a Find&Replace tool. You mean, insert as <pre>? I did it on the French version.
- Yes, pre makes more sense here than the code tag provided by the editor. Thanks for putting it in.
I don't know where the other three are missing - if you can figure that out, we can reinsert those into their corresponding places, too.
Probably on the same page: they demonstrate other elements of the coding style. I put the codes on the page: https://inkscape.org/fr/developper/style-du-code-source/ Please check everything's good and copy it to the English version.
- Could you ask the devs on the developers' mailing list about checking?
The codes look a bit big; we could reduce the font size, or put them in a fixed-height block with a scrollbar…
- Our pre CSS is this currently: pre { background-color: #f5f5f5; margin: 0.5ex 0; padding: 0.5ex 0.5em; }
You're welcome to improve on it, or create a bug report in inkscape-web, so we can follow up on this - or you can just style it inline :)
Maybe there's also an option to use a code plugin again, if there exists one (I couldn't find one yet). The pygments plugin was probably removed because it was incompatible (as the last release date from 2010 seems to hint at compatibility issues).
Regards, Maren
On Mon, 2016-04-04 at 21:07 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
Maybe there's also an option to use a code plugin again, if there exists one (I couldn't find one yet). The pygments plugin was probably removed because it was incompatible (as the last release date from 2010 seems to hint at compatibility issues).
I can confirm I removed it for compatibility reasons. Sorry about the missing code, I did a search but didn't pick up on these uses.
Keep an eye open for any code viewing or hilighting functions, we can always add in things if they're useful and easy to maintain.
Martin,
Le 04/04/2016 21:07, Maren Hachmann a écrit :
- Yes, pre makes more sense here than the code tag provided by the
editor. Thanks for putting it in.
Actually, the editor provides a <pre> tag: in the same combobox where you usually select a level of heading, there is a choice ‘Formatted’ which corresponds to a <pre>.
- Could you ask the devs on the developers' mailing list about checking?
I'll do it.
- Our pre CSS is this currently:
pre { background-color: #f5f5f5; margin: 0.5ex 0; padding: 0.5ex 0.5em; }
You're welcome to improve on it, or create a bug report in inkscape-web, so we can follow up on this - or you can just style it inline :)
I'm not a good designer… I'll let as it is. -- Sylvain
Hi Sylvain, Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it. Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 12:33 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Code style example + FLOSS manual
- Seems that was a CMS plugin that was lost along the way.
CMS Pygments plugin - color coded code example. I've rescued these 4 from my cms backups now, it must have been one of the following code bits (I think it's the second one, as I remember the code you're asking about contained Krzysztof's name.)
Yeah, it's certainly this one as it contains the parts evoked in the corresponding section.
Could you convert the formatting back to unicode, Sylvain, so it will look alright and insert as <code> into the correct place?
I don't know how to convert efficiently; I re-formatted at hand with a text editor and a Find&Replace tool. You mean, insert as <pre>? I did it on the French version.
I don't know where the other three are missing - if you can figure that out, we can reinsert those into their corresponding places, too.
Probably on the same page: they demonstrate other elements of the coding style. I put the codes on the page: https://inkscape.org/fr/developper/style-du-code-source/ Please check everything's good and copy it to the English version. The codes look a bit big; we could reduce the font size, or put them in a fixed-height block with a scrollbar…
Also, I see on the TODO-list: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ ‘French-to-English translation: A group of French speaking community members wrote a new "Introduction to Inkscape" manual. To enable further translations, we need an English translation of this user centered manual first.’ I am not a good English speaker or writer (I let you judge) but we could do that in two steps: I could start an approximate translation to English and someone could then make a real English text of it (ow, what a tedious work…). Are you okay? Brynn, would you do that? (In any case, I think I am a better translator than Google for French ⇒ English.)
I am still waiting for my answer (but I might start before you give it to me). -- Sylvain
Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain, Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it. Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?
All best, brynn
From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 12:33 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Code style example + FLOSS manual
- Seems that was a CMS plugin that was lost along the way.
CMS Pygments plugin - color coded code example. I've rescued these 4 from my cms backups now, it must have been one of the following code bits (I think it's the second one, as I remember the code you're asking about contained Krzysztof's name.)
Yeah, it's certainly this one as it contains the parts evoked in the corresponding section.
Could you convert the formatting back to unicode, Sylvain, so it will look alright and insert as <code> into the correct place?
I don't know how to convert efficiently; I re-formatted at hand with a text editor and a Find&Replace tool. You mean, insert as <pre>? I did it on the French version.
I don't know where the other three are missing - if you can figure that out, we can reinsert those into their corresponding places, too.
Probably on the same page: they demonstrate other elements of the coding style. I put the codes on the page: https://inkscape.org/fr/developper/style-du-code-source/ Please check everything's good and copy it to the English version. The codes look a bit big; we could reduce the font size, or put them in a fixed-height block with a scrollbar…
Also, I see on the TODO-list: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/to-do-list/ ‘French-to-English translation: A group of French speaking community members wrote a new "Introduction to Inkscape" manual. To enable
further
translations, we need an English translation of this user centered manual first.’ I am not a good English speaker or writer (I let you judge) but we
could
do that in two steps: I could start an approximate translation to English and someone could then make a real English text of it (ow, what a tedious work…). Are you okay? Brynn, would you do that? (In any case, I think I am a better translator than Google for French ⇒ English.)
I am still waiting for my answer (but I might start before you give it to me). -- Sylvain
Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started. I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... mailto:brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain,
Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.
The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?
This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most? -- Sylvain
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
If we're going to use flossmanuals.net I need to register. Or can the translation be shown without needing login?
Maybe we need to start getting organized?
In another topic, on the dev mailing list (https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34995212/)someone is giving input about making Inkscape more beginner-friendly. While answering that, I was wondering if this new manual could be made with Inkscape SVG files. That might offer 2 advantages -- a) it would make having an internal manual more possible (packed with Inkscape, rather than on the internet), and b) it would have the possibility of being an interactive manual!
Although I realize Inkscape's Text tool is still not quite up to par, as a text editor (doesn't auto-wrap unless flowed text is used - but then have to convert back to regular text, e.g.).
Just a thought :-)
Thanks, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 3:19 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started. I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... mailto:brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain,Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
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Hi again, Sorry, I think I missed the last part of your message, Sylvain. I get so confused with these inline replies.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
Since I don't read or understand French, I have no idea, yet, about the contents or quality of that chapter. Translating a few words here and there, I have a clue. But not an overall impression yet.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
While I would prefer a manual which can be helpful to newbies or novices (because there isn't one, and there already exists a theoretical manual), the main goal (imho) is to create an open manual which can be maintained by the community, without waiting months for a single author to update after upgrades.
If this new manual that we're discussing will be more theoretical, I still will be happy to help if I can. I will probably be less useful for the theoretical stuff. (And certainly for not advanced stuff, like how some extensions work, for example.) I think my strongest skills are in simplifying things for newbies. But I'll be glad to help in whatever way I can.
Perhaps I could think about making some sort of SVG file-interactive-newbie-introduction-document, that could ship with Inkscape? Maybe I'll write up some kind of proposal and submit to the mailing list for comments and suggestions? Or possibly wiki proposal, although I tend to get lost writing in the wiki @@. Or maybe I could write a newbie start guide for this new manual?? Or for the website??
But anyway, imho, what's important is that everyone who will be on this initial, starting manual "team" has a clear understanding what the goal is! And I think we need to get some clarity about that before we start (except for the translating). Also perhaps we need to discuss logistics, and what kind of workflow we'll use, and who will have which jobs or responsibilities, and etc? And most of all, what form will this new manual take? Will it be a 2nd floss manual? Or will it be...well no, it won't be in the wiki, since the wiki is being groomed as a developer's resource only these days. Will it be SVG documents, PDF download, or what? Could it be on the website??
Also, before that, perhaps we need to put out a mail on devel and user lists asking for anyone else who might want to volunteer/participate. Although these messages have been on the Docs list, for everyone to see, perhaps an invite would be nice, for people who might not be subscribed to the Docs list. I don't know -- just a thought.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a super-strict disciplinarian about organization. But we do need to all be "on the same page" (as they say) before we start. Right? I mean, we can't just start writing willy-nilly, randomly, can we? Well, we could, but it's probably not the best approach.
Let me know when you have something translated for me to work on :-)
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 8:06 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net; "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
If we're going to use flossmanuals.net I need to register. Or can the translation be shown without needing login?
Maybe we need to start getting organized?
In another topic, on the dev mailing list (https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34995212/)someone is giving input about making Inkscape more beginner-friendly. While answering that, I was wondering if this new manual could be made with Inkscape SVG files. That might offer 2 advantages -- a) it would make having an internal manual more possible (packed with Inkscape, rather than on the internet), and b) it would have the possibility of being an interactive manual!
Although I realize Inkscape's Text tool is still not quite up to par, as a text editor (doesn't auto-wrap unless flowed text is used - but then have to convert back to regular text, e.g.).
Just a thought :-)
Thanks, brynn
From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 3:19 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started. I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... mailto:brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain,Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
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Just a few quick thoughts:
Wouldn't it - if you want to build the real manual, not a newbie guide as could be done by translating the French intro - make sense to extend the existing FLOSS manual?
It already gives a strong basis which we could build upon. As a first step, updating it in the most important places could be a goal. Refining could come later.
For accessibility, compatibility, and sanity reasons my suggestion would be to go with the book creation software used at flossmanuals.
-> It provides an interface that allows anyone to easily update the book. -> It has version (and release) control. -> It can export to different formats, which can come in handy if you need a web version, an ebook version or a pdf. -> Text editing in Inkscape for huge amounts of text is too slow, and it's also not made for this kind of task.
Kind regards, Maren
Am 09.04.2016 um 17:28 schrieb Brynn:
Hi again, Sorry, I think I missed the last part of your message, Sylvain. I get so confused with these inline replies.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
Since I don't read or understand French, I have no idea, yet, about the contents or quality of that chapter. Translating a few words here and there, I have a clue. But not an overall impression yet.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
While I would prefer a manual which can be helpful to newbies or novices (because there isn't one, and there already exists a theoretical manual), the main goal (imho) is to create an open manual which can be maintained by the community, without waiting months for a single author to update after upgrades.
If this new manual that we're discussing will be more theoretical, I still will be happy to help if I can. I will probably be less useful for the theoretical stuff. (And certainly for not advanced stuff, like how some extensions work, for example.) I think my strongest skills are in simplifying things for newbies. But I'll be glad to help in whatever way I can.
Perhaps I could think about making some sort of SVG file-interactive-newbie-introduction-document, that could ship with Inkscape? Maybe I'll write up some kind of proposal and submit to the mailing list for comments and suggestions? Or possibly wiki proposal, although I tend to get lost writing in the wiki @@. Or maybe I could write a newbie start guide for this new manual?? Or for the website??
But anyway, imho, what's important is that everyone who will be on this initial, starting manual "team" has a clear understanding what the goal is! And I think we need to get some clarity about that before we start (except for the translating). Also perhaps we need to discuss logistics, and what kind of workflow we'll use, and who will have which jobs or responsibilities, and etc? And most of all, what form will this new manual take? Will it be a 2nd floss manual? Or will it be...well no, it won't be in the wiki, since the wiki is being groomed as a developer's resource only these days. Will it be SVG documents, PDF download, or what? Could it be on the website??
Also, before that, perhaps we need to put out a mail on devel and user lists asking for anyone else who might want to volunteer/participate. Although these messages have been on the Docs list, for everyone to see, perhaps an invite would be nice, for people who might not be subscribed to the Docs list. I don't know -- just a thought.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a super-strict disciplinarian about organization. But we do need to all be "on the same page" (as they say) before we start. Right? I mean, we can't just start writing willy-nilly, randomly, can we? Well, we could, but it's probably not the best approach.
Let me know when you have something translated for me to work on :-)
All best, brynn
From: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 8:06 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net; "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
If we're going to use flossmanuals.net I need to register. Or can the translation be shown without needing login?
Maybe we need to start getting organized?
In another topic, on the dev mailing list (https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34995212/)someone is giving input about making Inkscape more beginner-friendly. While answering that, I was wondering if this new manual could be made with Inkscape SVG files. That might offer 2 advantages -- a) it would make having an internal manual more possible (packed with Inkscape, rather than on the internet), and b) it would have the possibility of being an interactive manual!
Although I realize Inkscape's Text tool is still not quite up to par, as a text editor (doesn't auto-wrap unless flowed text is used - but then have to convert back to regular text, e.g.).
Just a thought :-)
Thanks, brynn
From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 3:19 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started. I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... mailto:brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain,Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/ gampad/clk?id=1444514301&iu=/ca-pub-7940484522588532 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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Hi Maren, Sylvain, everyone,
Wouldn't it - if you want to build the real manual, not a newbie guide as could be done by translating the French intro - make sense to extend the existing FLOSS manual?
Yes, that's what I was asking a few days back. It's been my understanding that the French introduction chapter was supposed to be the beginning of a manual that is more suitable for newbies (more step-by-step).
Since I can't read the French one yet, I'm still a little bit in the dark about its style. But I thought all our earlier discussions were about using it for a newbie, step-by-step manual.
The existing floss manual: 1 -- is already in the more theoretical style 2 -- is already in progress 3 -- doesn't need translating
So I agree with Maren, that if a theoretical manual is wanted, it should be built upon the current floss manual.
Personally, I won't be able to help much with a theoretical manual. Browsing through, I think I could maybe help a little bit here and there. But as I said, I think my skills are better for presenting info for beginners.
For the beginner's guide, I'm happy to use the FLOSS interface. I've never done anything like this before. Well, I mean making a whole manual. Of course I break things down for newbies every day! But I'm happy to use whatever you all think is best.
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 2:54 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Just a few quick thoughts:
Wouldn't it - if you want to build the real manual, not a newbie guide as could be done by translating the French intro - make sense to extend the existing FLOSS manual?
It already gives a strong basis which we could build upon. As a first step, updating it in the most important places could be a goal. Refining could come later.
For accessibility, compatibility, and sanity reasons my suggestion would be to go with the book creation software used at flossmanuals.
-> It provides an interface that allows anyone to easily update the book. -> It has version (and release) control. -> It can export to different formats, which can come in handy if you need a web version, an ebook version or a pdf. -> Text editing in Inkscape for huge amounts of text is too slow, and it's also not made for this kind of task.
Kind regards, Maren
Am 09.04.2016 um 17:28 schrieb Brynn:
Hi again, Sorry, I think I missed the last part of your message, Sylvain. I get so confused with these inline replies.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
Since I don't read or understand French, I have no idea, yet, about the contents or quality of that chapter. Translating a few words here and there, I have a clue. But not an overall impression yet.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
While I would prefer a manual which can be helpful to newbies or novices (because there isn't one, and there already exists a theoretical manual), the main goal (imho) is to create an open manual which can be maintained by the community, without waiting months for a single author to update after upgrades.
If this new manual that we're discussing will be more theoretical, I still will be happy to help if I can. I will probably be less useful for the theoretical stuff. (And certainly for not advanced stuff, like how some extensions work, for example.) I think my strongest skills are in simplifying things for newbies. But I'll be glad to help in whatever way I can.
Perhaps I could think about making some sort of SVG file-interactive-newbie-introduction-document, that could ship with Inkscape? Maybe I'll write up some kind of proposal and submit to the mailing list for comments and suggestions? Or possibly wiki proposal, although I tend to get lost writing in the wiki @@. Or maybe I could write a newbie start guide for this new manual?? Or for the website??
But anyway, imho, what's important is that everyone who will be on this initial, starting manual "team" has a clear understanding what the goal is! And I think we need to get some clarity about that before we start (except for the translating). Also perhaps we need to discuss logistics, and what kind of workflow we'll use, and who will have which jobs or responsibilities, and etc? And most of all, what form will this new manual take? Will it be a 2nd floss manual? Or will it be...well no, it won't be in the wiki, since the wiki is being groomed as a developer's resource only these days. Will it be SVG documents, PDF download, or what? Could it be on the website??
Also, before that, perhaps we need to put out a mail on devel and user lists asking for anyone else who might want to volunteer/participate. Although these messages have been on the Docs list, for everyone to see, perhaps an invite would be nice, for people who might not be subscribed to the Docs list. I don't know -- just a thought.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a super-strict disciplinarian about organization. But we do need to all be "on the same page" (as they say) before we start. Right? I mean, we can't just start writing willy-nilly, randomly, can we? Well, we could, but it's probably not the best approach.
Let me know when you have something translated for me to work on :-)
All best, brynn
From: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 8:06 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net; "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
If we're going to use flossmanuals.net I need to register. Or can the translation be shown without needing login?
Maybe we need to start getting organized?
In another topic, on the dev mailing list (https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34995212/)someone is giving input about making Inkscape more beginner-friendly. While answering that, I was wondering if this new manual could be made with Inkscape SVG files. That might offer 2 advantages -- a) it would make having an internal manual more possible (packed with Inkscape, rather than on the internet), and b) it would have the possibility of being an interactive manual!
Although I realize Inkscape's Text tool is still not quite up to par, as a text editor (doesn't auto-wrap unless flowed text is used - but then have to convert back to regular text, e.g.).
Just a thought :-)
Thanks, brynn
From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 3:19 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] FLOSS manual
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started. I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... mailto:brynn@...78...>:
Hi Sylvain,Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title,("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.
The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/ gampad/clk?id=1444514301&iu=/ca-pub-7940484522588532 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/ gampad/clk?id=1444514301&iu=/ca-pub-7940484522588532 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/ gampad/clk?id=1444514301&iu=/ca-pub-7940484522588532 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
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2016-04-08 23:19 GMT+02:00 Sylvain Chiron <chironsylvain@...102...>:
Le 08/04/2016 15:14, Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra a écrit :
Hi,
Courtneay want help in the translation of the initiation inkscape in french to translate it into english. FMfr host this project here : http://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_edit/
join our force.
Cheers, Elisa
Hi Elisa,
Shouldn't the translated manual be on en.flossmanuals.net?
I'm the manager of flossmanuals french, so we have to speak with the floss manuals english people to know.
As she was ready to help, i make quickly all necessary to start the work. If you want i can ask Mick who manage floss manuals english to host our project.
Please be careful with the translation… Seeing something like ‘Draw since geometric shapes’, I'm a bit afraid. It should rather be ‘Draw using/with/from geometric shapes’ or even just ‘Draw geometric shapes’.
I'm not good in english. So i translate some title of chapter to explain to her how manage floss manuals. Sorry for this mistake.
Viewing the manual, I see many microtypographic imperfections, and the way things are expressed could easily be improved… Can I touch it? I already started.
yes of course :-)
I also wonder how it could be renamed from ‘Initiation Inkscape’ to ‘Initiation à Inkscape’.
the url of the book is not possible to change it, but after we can rename this book (in the real life) as we want.
Regards Elisa
2016-04-05 16:20 GMT+02:00 Brynn <brynn@...78... <mailto:brynn@...78...
:
Hi Sylvain,Hi Brynn,
Sorry for delay in responding. Because of the title, ("code style") I thought the message might be about something that I can't help with. So I didn't read it right away and only just now read it.The ‘+’ in the subject meant that I talked about two subjects in a single message. But I should have sent two messages, like others do. It's saved in my brain.
Yes, I'd be very happy to help! But what's the plan now? Since the FLOSS manual is now editable, are we looking to that, for the creation of a more step by step (rather than theoretical) open manual? Or are we going to use a translation of the French introduction chapter as a starting point for a new and open manual?This is what I stated: I could translate the French introduction into English and maybe you could make it a better English-ed book.
But actually, reading the book, I don't really find what it brings to the reader… It's just a bit more detailed than the tutorials, but not much. And the style or pedagogy aren't magic.
I would rather prefer a theoretical manual, as you're saying, something that needs a bit of skills to be read and understood, but quickly provides interesting information.
That's that? What would you like most?
Sylvain
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/ gampad/clk?id=1444514301&iu=/ca-pub-7940484522588532 _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
participants (5)
-
Brynn -
Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra -
Maren Hachmann -
Martin Owens -
Sylvain Chiron