I'm thinking either Learn menu or Learn page.

I guess for the Learn menu, to continue with the current structure, the URL should be http://..../learn/keys091, or something like that. I also guess there's probably a way to put it in the menu without changing it's URL (although I'm not immediately sure how).

But putting a link on the Learn page, that issue goes away. Another option might be Tutorials page. But it's not really a tutorial.

Just my thoughts :-)

brynn

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Owens" <doctormo@...2...> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:47 AM To: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Cc: "Inkscape-Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

I agree with your thoughts Brynn,

Where to put a good link to the docs page? We can choose a menu item or we can link from another page.

Any ideas.

Martin,

On 18 May 2015 at 06:22, Brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:

...

Hi Friends, I wonder if anyone else would like to see this, or thinks it should happen? I've noticed that the Inkscape Keyboard and Mouse Reference has been moved to the website....some time ago, actually. (https://inkscape.org/en/doc/keys091.html). Often I want to look something up, on that page, but I don't have Inkscape open at the moment. (Usually it's to answer forum messages.) I think it would be nice to have a link to it, in a menu, or somewhere relatively easy to find....like maybe on the Learn page? Or is there already a link somewhere, and I just haven't found it yet? I tried using the site Search. Some results were found, but not that page. (tried several different search tems) Thanks :-)

All best, brynn

---

One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs

Hi everyone,

I would link them from 'Books and Manuals' and from the FAQ ('Where can I find a list of keyboard commands?' or similar), I wouldn't create an extra menu item for this, and those are the pages where I would look for this kind of info.

I have just added the proposed links to those pages:

https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#Where_to_find_a_list_of_all_keyboard_shor... and https://inkscape.org/en/learn/books/

Any improvement suggestions before I send this out to translators (and translate myself)?

Regards, Maren

I'd say it makes sense to reference the shortcuts from the learn page.

Via mobile.

On 22 May 2015, at 4:12 am, Brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:

Hi Maren and all, I think it's neither a book or a manual, so I have some concern about it being on that page. The new FAQ item sounds great though! I guess you must have a reason for not having it on the Learn page? I understand about not being in the menu. I don't agree, but I understand. But to me, Learn page seems more appropriate. Discuss?

Thanks, brynn

---

From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:49 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

...

Hi everyone,

...

I would link them from 'Books and Manuals' and from the FAQ ('Where can I find a list of keyboard commands?' or similar), I wouldn't create an extra menu item for this, and those are the pages where I would look for this kind of info.

I have just added the proposed links to those pages:

https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#Where_to_find_a_list_of_all_keyboard_shor... and https://inkscape.org/en/learn/books/

Any improvement suggestions before I send this out to translators (and translate myself)?

Regards, Maren

---

One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs

---

One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs

Hi Maren, Oh, now I understand much better! But I still have a couple of questions.

I did not want to make this an extra menu item, because that menu item would then lead to a page with only a single link on it. This would not make too much sense, in my opinion.

I don't understand that. Why does it matter if the Keys and Mouse Reference only has 1 link on it?

Why I would not want to put it on the main 'Learn' page is because I consider that page an overview of the sub-sections, which is supposed to help you find the right subsection.

The Learn page happens to be that, an overview with links leading to the sub-pages. But not all of the main menu pages are strictly an overview. For example, the Community page has content of its own, that does not have any sub-pages. And there are sub-pages or sub-menu items which are not previewed on the main Community page.

I do not like the duplication of links too much for maintenance reasons.

I don't understand what you mean about duplication of links.

I guess I would not mind it being on Books and Manuals page, if it was re-named Books, Manuals, Reference, or something that indicates the Keys reference might be there And I see that the command line ref is there too. I didn't realize that was there. It must have been added since the last time I looked at that page.

So if the menu item and page name indicates that references are there, it gives visitors a clue. If I were an Inkscape user who hasn't figured out how to use the Help menu, I probably would not guess that I could find the Keys ref on the Books page.

Books, Manuals and Refs is probably too long for the menu. How about just Manuals and Reference. Because books about Inkscape really are manuals anyway. Or maybe "Manuals, Reference"?

Thanks for discussion :-)

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 1:17 PM To: "Donna Benjamin" <donna@...92...>; "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Cc: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

Hi,

okay, so let me explain why I thought it would be good if the link to the keyboard reference lived in 'Books and Manuals'.

To me, a keyboard reference is something that should be part of the manual. It belongs into the 'documentation' section. We do not have a page called 'Documentation', but the thing which is nearest to this is 'Manual'. I would not want to delete it from that page again, because it (for me...) so clearly belongs there.

I did not want to make this an extra menu item, because that menu item would then lead to a page with only a single link on it. This would not make too much sense, in my opinion.

Why I would not want to put it on the main 'Learn' page is because I consider that page an overview of the sub-sections, which is supposed to help you find the right subsection. I do not like the duplication of links too much for maintenance reasons. We will have to exchange the link in several places for the next version and for (up to) 12 languages. That's the kind of work I would like to avoid - the links are version specific, unfortunately.

If we add it in to the section overview page, too, someone needs to want to do all the exchange work. I have done this for one Inkscape version (almost) alone already, and I'd really be happy if it would be limited to the strictly necessary.

If you still want to add it, we can do so, of course - majority vote ;)

Kind regards, Maren

Am 23.05.2015 um 19:21 schrieb Donna Benjamin:

...

I'd say it makes sense to reference the shortcuts from the learn page.

Via mobile.

...

On 22 May 2015, at 4:12 am, Brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:

Hi Maren and all, I think it's neither a book or a manual, so I have some concern about it being on that page. The new FAQ item sounds great though! I guess you must have a reason for not having it on the Learn page? I understand about not being in the menu. I don't agree, but I understand. But to me, Learn page seems more appropriate. Discuss?

Thanks, brynn

---

From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:49 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

...

Hi everyone,

...

I would link them from 'Books and Manuals' and from the FAQ ('Where can I find a list of keyboard commands?' or similar), I wouldn't create an extra menu item for this, and those are the pages where I would look for this kind of info.

I have just added the proposed links to those pages:

https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#Where_to_find_a_list_of_all_keyboard_shor... and https://inkscape.org/en/learn/books/

Any improvement suggestions before I send this out to translators (and translate myself)?

Regards, Maren

Oh no! Maybe that was what you meant all the time?...

No, that page with 1 link makes no sense. Yes, I was thinking a direct link - the menu goes directly to that page. I have not looked into whether that's possible (without changing the url), but it seems like it should be. Although, read on....

• How about the more standard 'Documentation' or 'Docs and Literature'?

But yes, that's essentially what I'd like most. It would collect things that belong together on one page, and make it quite clear what that page is about.

Yes, I like that! (so putting it in the Learn menu can be forgotten, for me)

I'm only a little hesitant about renaming the page, because other people may have linked to it... *If* we change the name, we should create a redirect (so old links will still lead to the page), and also be very certain about the new name, so we won't change it another time (and need another redirect).

Would we have to change the link/URL? Isn't it possible to change the text of the menu, without changing the page name? I thought I did that somewhere, a while ago..... Yes, in the Learn menu, I changed "Videos" to "Video Tutorials". I had approval on that in an e mail thread, although it was quite a while ago. (I might not even still have that thread.)

Maybe for the long term, that's not a very good idea. But if the next new website is coming up within.....let's say a year, maybe it wouldn't be so bad?

All best, brynn

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 7:40 PM To: "Brynn" <brynn@...78...>; "Inkscape-Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: "Donna Benjamin" <donna@...92...> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

Hi Brynn,

...

...

I did not want to make this an extra menu item, because that menu item would then lead to a page with only a single link on it. This would not make too much sense, in my opinion.

I don't understand that. Why does it matter if the Keys and Mouse Reference only has 1 link on it?

• Because we would make an extra menu entry for a page like this:

http://staging.inkscape.org/en/keyboard-and-mouse-reference That menu entry would make the corresponding sub-menu longer, it creates an extra page which needs to be edited separately, and the resulting page is largely empty. I think it's not worth all this 'extra', if we can find a home for that link somewhere else. Of course if we could directly include the reference on the page, then it would make a lot more sense... Oh no! Maybe that was what you meant all the time?...

...

...

Why I would not want to put it on the main 'Learn' page is because I consider that page an overview of the sub-sections, which is supposed to help you find the right subsection.

The Learn page happens to be that, an overview with links leading to the sub-pages. But not all of the main menu pages are strictly an overview. For example, the Community page has content of its own, that does not have any sub-pages. And there are sub-pages or sub-menu items which are not previewed on the main Community page.

• Right :)

...

...

I do not like the duplication of links too much for maintenance reasons.

I don't understand what you mean about duplication of links.

• The link would be on the Manual page *and* on the Learn page. That's

two, because I'd want to keep it next to the manual in any case ;) (just as the tutorials are duplicates, and they are a pain to edit, when you need to find out their respective links for all those languages. Because of the plugin links, simple copy-paste doesn't work, either...)

...

I guess I would not mind it being on Books and Manuals page, if it was re-named Books, Manuals, Reference, or something that indicates the Keys reference might be there And I see that the command line ref is there too. I didn't realize that was there. It must have been added since the last time I looked at that page.

So if the menu item and page name indicates that references are there, it gives visitors a clue. If I were an Inkscape user who hasn't figured out how to use the Help menu, I probably would not guess that I could find the Keys ref on the Books page.

Books, Manuals and Refs is probably too long for the menu. How about just Manuals and Reference. Because books about Inkscape really are manuals anyway. Or maybe "Manuals, Reference"?

• How about the more standard 'Documentation' or 'Docs and Literature'?

But yes, that's essentially what I'd like most. It would collect things that belong together on one page, and make it quite clear what that page is about. I'm only a little hesitant about renaming the page, because other people may have linked to it... *If* we change the name, we should create a redirect (so old links will still lead to the page), and also be very certain about the new name, so we won't change it another time (and need another redirect).

Probably Hinerangi or Martin may have some opinion about this, too, as it touches usability and naming preferences ;)

Regards, Maren

...

Thanks for discussion :-)

---

From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 1:17 PM To: "Donna Benjamin" <donna@...92...>; "Brynn" <brynn@...78...> Cc: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

...

Hi,

okay, so let me explain why I thought it would be good if the link to the keyboard reference lived in 'Books and Manuals'.

To me, a keyboard reference is something that should be part of the manual. It belongs into the 'documentation' section. We do not have a page called 'Documentation', but the thing which is nearest to this is 'Manual'. I would not want to delete it from that page again, because it (for me...) so clearly belongs there.

I did not want to make this an extra menu item, because that menu item would then lead to a page with only a single link on it. This would not make too much sense, in my opinion.

Why I would not want to put it on the main 'Learn' page is because I consider that page an overview of the sub-sections, which is supposed to help you find the right subsection. I do not like the duplication of links too much for maintenance reasons. We will have to exchange the link in several places for the next version and for (up to) 12 languages. That's the kind of work I would like to avoid - the links are version specific, unfortunately.

If we add it in to the section overview page, too, someone needs to want to do all the exchange work. I have done this for one Inkscape version (almost) alone already, and I'd really be happy if it would be limited to the strictly necessary.

If you still want to add it, we can do so, of course - majority vote ;)

Kind regards, Maren

Am 23.05.2015 um 19:21 schrieb Donna Benjamin:

...

I'd say it makes sense to reference the shortcuts from the learn page.

Via mobile.

...

On 22 May 2015, at 4:12 am, Brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote:

Hi Maren and all, I think it's neither a book or a manual, so I have some concern about it being on that page. The new FAQ item sounds great though! I guess you must have a reason for not having it on the Learn page? I understand about not being in the menu. I don't agree, but I understand. But to me, Learn page seems more appropriate. Discuss?

Thanks, brynn

---

From: "Maren Hachmann" <maren@...68...> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:49 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the key/mouse ref?

...

Hi everyone, > I would link them from 'Books and Manuals' and from the FAQ > ('Where can > I find a list of keyboard commands?' or similar), I wouldn't > create an > extra menu item for this, and those are the pages where I would > look for > this kind of info. I have just added the proposed links to those pages:

https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#Where_to_find_a_list_of_all_keyboard_shor...

and https://inkscape.org/en/learn/books/

Any improvement suggestions before I send this out to translators (and translate myself)?

Regards, Maren