Website, ‘Learn’: Ordered tutorials and underlined manuals
Hi all,
Two things have questioned me for a while in the ‘Learn’ part of the website.
The first is, why are the tutorials in a different order from the Inkscape program tutorial submenu's? I guess they're ordered by publication date on the website, but this detail is quite obsolete now; so could I reorder the tutorials on the website to match the order in Inkscape's ‘Tutorials’ submenu, which is a bit more logical?
Second thing: why are all 3rd-level headings on the ‘Books and Manuals’ page underlined? Here, my thought is that it was initially decided to underline the books' titles. But the keyboard shortcut and command line references are not really books bound to an author… I would also recommend that we use italic, as those thick lines have a look which is a bit hard. Then we would have Tav's manual and the book in italic.
By the way, aren't there more books about Inkscape? On Packt Publishing's website, I see there are at least 4 books: https://www.packtpub.com/all?search=inkscape One of them is evoked in an old news article on the Inkscape website: https://inkscape.org/en/news/2011/04/30/inkscape-048-illustrators-cookbook-a... Maybe we should have a single heading for all books on Packt Publishing to avoid promoting it. Let me see… Among the 4, 3 are by Bethany Hiitola and list her (or his?) book with bullets. We could also have a subsection for Bethany and another for the cookbook. What do you prefer?
For my two things, I'll deal with all languages (unless anybody wants to help). For the books, I'll call the help of translators as the text will change. -- Sylvain
Hi Sylvain,
The first is, why are the tutorials in a different order from the Inkscape program tutorial submenu's?
- They have been added in the order they were added to the program, I think.
I guess they're ordered by publication date on the website, but this detail is quite obsolete now; so could I reorder the tutorials on the website to match the order in Inkscape's âTutorialsâ submenu, which is a bit more logical?
- Yes, please go ahead. Would you also reorder for the other languages, if you understand those - or post a message to the translators' mailing list when the change was made? - Ah, saw your offer at the bottom now. Thanks, that would be good!
Second thing: why are all 3rd-level headings on the âBooks and Manualsâ page underlined? Here, my thought is that it was initially decided to underline the books' titles. But the keyboard shortcut and command line references are not really books bound to an author⦠I would also recommend that we use italic, as those thick lines have a look which is a bit hard. Then we would have Tav's manual and the book in italic.
- It was just a style decision made by the editor at the time. No specific reason. I like it as it is, but of course there are many ways to display something.
By the way, aren't there more books about Inkscape? On Packt Publishing's website, I see there are at least 4 books: https://www.packtpub.com/all?search=inkscape One of them is evoked in an old news article on the Inkscape website: https://inkscape.org/en/news/2011/04/30/inkscape-048-illustrators-cookbook-a... Maybe we should have a single heading for all books on Packt Publishing to avoid promoting it. Let me see⦠Among the 4, 3 are by Bethany Hiitola and list her (or his?) book with bullets. We could also have a subsection for Bethany and another for the cookbook. What do you prefer?
- There are. There are *a lot* more books. And they are language-specific. And I wouldn't want to have them all listed there (or rather, I wouldn't want to have hundreds of links to amazon or some publishing house).
I'd rather like to promote books by people who have a connection to the Inkscape community, so if you want to ask around on the Inkscape mailing lists, and gather a few current ones that were written by people who answer, that would make a nicer list. I think we once tried something like this - maybe with some research you will find the discussion, I don't remember every part of it now.
For my two things, I'll deal with all languages (unless anybody wants to help).
- Thanks!
For the books, I'll call the help of translators as the text will change.
- That's fine. It would be nice to only do that when the 'project' of getting new books on the page is finished, so translators don't have to translate it in many steps, but only in one.
Regards, Maren
Le 14/07/2016 à 01:31, maren@...68... a écrit :
- It was just a style decision made by the editor at the time. No specific
reason. I like it as it is, but of course there are many ways to display something.
You're right… The same underlining is used on the Download pages. But HTML for styling is bad.
- There are. There are *a lot* more books. And they are language-specific.
And I wouldn't want to have them all listed there (or rather, I wouldn't want to have hundreds of links to amazon or some publishing house).
We could have different books for each language on the page. I don't think a French person will be really interested in books written in English if books in French also exist and are good. We could specify that one should visit the page in another language to get a list of books in that language.
I'd rather like to promote books by people who have a connection to the Inkscape community, so if you want to ask around on the Inkscape mailing lists, and gather a few current ones that were written by people who answer, that would make a nicer list.
You're right, that would be great.
I think we once tried something like this - maybe with some research you will find the discussion, I don't remember every part of it now.
https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/search/?q=books I browsed a bit, useful information seems hard to find.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm the more appropriate person to ask on mailing lists — I don't feel ease at it. I fear looking demanding with all my remarks: ‘your software is buggy’, ‘your texts are full of mistakes’, ‘your wiki was organized and coded with feet and bottom’, ‘there's that little problem hard to correct but which really annoys me in this or that reference’ — and now ‘hey, I'm new and I wonder why you left your Books page empty like that’, while my work has not been of high value till now, it might be too much. I'll wait.
- That's fine. It would be nice to only do that when the 'project' of
getting new books on the page is finished, so translators don't have to translate it in many steps, but only in one.
Yes, of course.
I had actually had that exact link listed on that page, at one time. But was told that we don't want to advertise the publisher, so it was removed.
I understand it's a problem. I already found Packt Publishing in the news several times. If it's the only publisher we talk about on the Books page, it's even worse.
There are a lot of books about Inkscape, but I think the problem is that if none of us have reviewed, or even seen them, it's hard to justify promoting them.
True. The authors are often not well-known by the community? (This is sad.)
We had a looong discussion about where to put the Keyboard Ref and Command Line Ref, because they are neither books or manuals. Then we had a loong discussion about changing the name of the page. None of the discussions produced a result that we all found acceptable, so everything was left as it is.
Well, if you want the Command Line Ref, type ‘man inkscape’ (Windows 10 will offer you a UNIX shell soon so this should work), and to access the Keyboard Ref, find the menu item in the Inkscape software. The command line ref is a UNIX ‘man(ual) page’, hence it's a bit of a manual. I think it's acceptable like that.
I do think the underlines could be dropped from the 2 Refs. It probably didn't not look quite as imposing as it does now, since we changed the h3 style.
Yeah, it was a line of 1px height instead of 2px. I removed the <u></u> on the Books page and translations; I'll now deal with the Download page and the Windows subpage. -- Sylvain
Maren: ">> - There are. There are *a lot* more books. And they are language-specific.
And I wouldn't want to have them all listed there (or rather, I wouldn't want to have hundreds of links to amazon or some publishing house)."
Sylvain: "> We could have different books for each language on the page. I don't
think a French person will be really interested in books written in English if books in French also exist and are good. We could specify that one should visit the page in another language to get a list of books in that language."
Maren: ">> I'd rather like to promote books by people who have a connection to the
Inkscape community, so if you want to ask around on the Inkscape mailing lists, and gather a few current ones that were written by people who answer, that would make a nicer list."
I like that idea of having books in certain languages showing on certain translation pages. However, I'm afraid some people are in such a hurry, they might not find the translation for their language, and they're stumbling along in English.
I think it might work if the English translation has all the books in all the languages....then for the rest: French only shows French books, Spanish only shows Spanish books, etc.
This reminds me of an idea that seems to recycle itself in my mind every few months. The idea of a sort of more or less regular Inkscape Users' article on the website. Realistically, twice a year is about the most I could imagine, especially since we would be out there, sort of fishing for people to write them (if not writing ourselves). But it could be something like a manual review, or a presentation of a really cool project someone has done with Inkscape. Or interview a developer, maybe?? Just a way to have something on the website that could help bring more interest for users.
Well anyway, just a thought :-)
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:29 PM To: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Website, ‘Learn’: Ordered tutorials and underlined manuals
Le 14/07/2016 à 01:31, maren@...68... a écrit :
- It was just a style decision made by the editor at the time. No
specific reason. I like it as it is, but of course there are many ways to display something.
You're right… The same underlining is used on the Download pages. But HTML for styling is bad.
- There are. There are *a lot* more books. And they are
language-specific. And I wouldn't want to have them all listed there (or rather, I wouldn't want to have hundreds of links to amazon or some publishing house).
We could have different books for each language on the page. I don't think a French person will be really interested in books written in English if books in French also exist and are good. We could specify that one should visit the page in another language to get a list of books in that language.
I'd rather like to promote books by people who have a connection to the Inkscape community, so if you want to ask around on the Inkscape mailing lists, and gather a few current ones that were written by people who answer, that would make a nicer list.
You're right, that would be great.
I think we once tried something like this - maybe with some research you will find the discussion, I don't remember every part of it now.
https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/search/?q=books I browsed a bit, useful information seems hard to find.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm the more appropriate person to ask on mailing lists — I don't feel ease at it. I fear looking demanding with all my remarks: ‘your software is buggy’, ‘your texts are full of mistakes’, ‘your wiki was organized and coded with feet and bottom’, ‘there's that little problem hard to correct but which really annoys me in this or that reference’ — and now ‘hey, I'm new and I wonder why you left your Books page empty like that’, while my work has not been of high value till now, it might be too much. I'll wait.
- That's fine. It would be nice to only do that when the 'project' of
getting new books on the page is finished, so translators don't have to translate it in many steps, but only in one.
Yes, of course.
I had actually had that exact link listed on that page, at one time. But was told that we don't want to advertise the publisher, so it was removed.
I understand it's a problem. I already found Packt Publishing in the news several times. If it's the only publisher we talk about on the Books page, it's even worse.
There are a lot of books about Inkscape, but I think the problem is that if none of us have reviewed, or even seen them, it's hard to justify promoting them.
True. The authors are often not well-known by the community? (This is sad.)
We had a looong discussion about where to put the Keyboard Ref and Command Line Ref, because they are neither books or manuals. Then we had a loong discussion about changing the name of the page. None of the discussions produced a result that we all found acceptable, so everything was left as it is.
Well, if you want the Command Line Ref, type ‘man inkscape’ (Windows 10 will offer you a UNIX shell soon so this should work), and to access the Keyboard Ref, find the menu item in the Inkscape software. The command line ref is a UNIX ‘man(ual) page’, hence it's a bit of a manual. I think it's acceptable like that.
I do think the underlines could be dropped from the 2 Refs. It probably didn't not look quite as imposing as it does now, since we changed the h3 style.
Yeah, it was a line of 1px height instead of 2px. I removed the <u></u> on the Books page and translations; I'll now deal with the Download page and the Windows subpage. -- Sylvain
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Le 18/07/2016 à 14:54, Brynn a écrit :
I like that idea of having books in certain languages showing on certain translation pages. However, I'm afraid some people are in such a hurry, they might not find the translation for their language, and they're stumbling along in English.
My first suggestion was to precise you need to change the language with a simple sentence, but if that's not enough we could have links at the top (or at the bottom in a dedicated section) of the page: ‘Books in German’, ‘Books in French’, ‘Books in Portuguese’, etc. (I'm promoting the most active translators) which would lead to the translated page.
I think it might work if the English translation has all the books in all the languages....then for the rest: French only shows French books, Spanish only shows Spanish books, etc.
Then the English page would still be very long…
This reminds me of an idea that seems to recycle itself in my mind every few months. The idea of a sort of more or less regular Inkscape Users' article on the website. Realistically, twice a year is about the most I could imagine, especially since we would be out there, sort of fishing for people to write them (if not writing ourselves). But it could be something like a manual review, or a presentation of a really cool project someone has done with Inkscape. Or interview a developer, maybe?? Just a way to have something on the website that could help bring more interest for users.
Yeah, that's would be really nice, but I don't know how this could be implemented. You should ask if some people are interested, then describe what you want on a feature request quoting your supporters. (In my case I'm not able to write such articles yet.) -- Sylvain
By the way, aren't there more books about Inkscape? On Packt Publishing's website, I see there are at least 4 books: https://www.packtpub.com/all?search=inkscape One of them is evoked in an old news article on the Inkscape website: https://inkscape.org/en/news/2011/04/30/inkscape-048-illustrators-cookbook-a... Maybe we should have a single heading for all books on Packt Publishing
I had actually had that exact link listed on that page, at one time. But was told that we don't want to advertise the publisher, so it was removed.
There are a lot of books about Inkscape, but I think the problem is that if none of us have reviewed, or even seen them, it's hard to justify promoting them.
We had a looong discussion about where to put the Keyboard Ref and Command Line Ref, because they are neither books or manuals. Then we had a loong discussion about changing the name of the page. None of the discussions produced a result that we all found acceptable, so everything was left as it is.
I do think the underlines could be dropped from the 2 Refs. It probably didn't not look quite as imposing as it does now, since we changed the h3 style.
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:58 PM To: "Inkscape Docs" inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Inkscape-docs] Website, ‘Learn’: Ordered tutorials and underlined manuals
Hi all,
Two things have questioned me for a while in the ‘Learn’ part of the website.
The first is, why are the tutorials in a different order from the Inkscape program tutorial submenu's? I guess they're ordered by publication date on the website, but this detail is quite obsolete now; so could I reorder the tutorials on the website to match the order in Inkscape's ‘Tutorials’ submenu, which is a bit more logical?
Second thing: why are all 3rd-level headings on the ‘Books and Manuals’ page underlined? Here, my thought is that it was initially decided to underline the books' titles. But the keyboard shortcut and command line references are not really books bound to an author… I would also recommend that we use italic, as those thick lines have a look which is a bit hard. Then we would have Tav's manual and the book in italic.
By the way, aren't there more books about Inkscape? On Packt Publishing's website, I see there are at least 4 books: https://www.packtpub.com/all?search=inkscape One of them is evoked in an old news article on the Inkscape website: https://inkscape.org/en/news/2011/04/30/inkscape-048-illustrators-cookbook-a... Maybe we should have a single heading for all books on Packt Publishing to avoid promoting it. Let me see… Among the 4, 3 are by Bethany Hiitola and list her (or his?) book with bullets. We could also have a subsection for Bethany and another for the cookbook. What do you prefer?
For my two things, I'll deal with all languages (unless anybody wants to help). For the books, I'll call the help of translators as the text will change. -- Sylvain
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Hello Everybody in the Inkscape Community,
My name is Roy Torley. I started to write yet another tutorial for Inkscape as a means for teaching myself how to use it. It is my pleasure to share the few chapters that I have written for the Inkscape community. You will find them at:
I need to learn more about Github so you can download what you would like. I have written only three chapters so far. I intend to write, perhaps up to 20 chapters featuring the various capabilities that Inkscape has to offer.
Again, I remind you that I write these chapters for myself. This is my preferred way of learning at this time. I will write more when I can make more time to think things through.
I hope that all of you in the Inkscape find these chapters a good introduction to drawing without a pencil or pen, and that you find them enjoyable.
Use in good health,
Roy Torley
Hi Roy!
Le 20/07/2016 à 10:35, bandura1@...114... a écrit :
My name is Roy Torley. I started to write yet another tutorial for Inkscape as a means for teaching myself how to use it. It is my pleasure to share the few chapters that I have written for the Inkscape community. You will find them at:
Maybe we could include: https://roy-torley.github.io/Inkscape_Tutorial/Inkscape_Tutorial_Contents.ht... in the Tutorial list page: https://inkscape.org/en/learn/tutorials/ But I don't know the policy for including tutorials there. Maren's tutorials seem not to be included for example. There's also the wiki page: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Tutorials_and_help
I need to learn more about Github so you can download what you would like. I have written only three chapters so far. I intend to write, perhaps up to 20 chapters featuring the various capabilities that Inkscape has to offer.
We can already download your contents quite easily as they're provided on the web.
What license are they under? I see no copyright information, which by default means that your contents belong to you and we cannot copy it (but we could use it as a reference, of course), from what I know/believe. You should look for the meaning of some licences, e.g. Creative Commons which are as far as I know the best licences for such contents. Then you should link to the license you chose on some of your pages (such as the table of contents) so that we can see it in small, for example at the bottom; and you should add it to /all/ of your pages in a meta tag: <meta name="author" content="Roy Torley"/> <meta name="copyright" content="here write your license information"/> Please write ‘name="author"’ — I see ‘type="author"’ on some of your pages. You should also include a COPYRIGHT file containing your license in your repository's root: https://github.com/Roy-Torley/Roy-Torley.github.io I'm not sure of this information so you may look further on the web.
You should also make your pages pass the W3 Validator as I see many errors in it (and it's ugly): http://validator.w3.org/ or simply open your pages with Firefox and press Ctrl+U, you'll see many red parts. It means that your tags aren't correctly written.
Again, I remind you that I write these chapters for myself. This is my preferred way of learning at this time. I will write more when I can make more time to think things through.
Thanks for sharing!
If you'd like to join the ‘official’ community and contribute to official contents (such as the tutorials included with the Inkscape software), feel free to ask any questions.
I hope that all of you in the Inkscape find these chapters a good introduction to drawing without a pencil or pen, and that you find them enjoyable.
I won't read them fully right now, but the didacticism I see here can certainly interest some people.
Regards, -- Sylvain
Hi Roy, Brynn and Sylvain,
Maybe we could include: https://roy-torley.github.io/Inkscape_Tutorial/Inkscape_Tutorial_Contents.ht... in the Tutorial list page: https://inkscape.org/en/learn/tutorials/ But I don't know the policy for including tutorials there.
- They need to be good :) and useful for many people. I can't currently take a close look at Roy's tuts, but if Sylvain and Brynn agree that these are nice, then, of course, they can be included. Or, maybe, they could be uploaded into the 'Tutorials' section of the gallery, even as links only - that would allow Roy to change and update the info about his tutorials himself and to tag them, to add a licence, etc.
Maren's tutorials seem not to be included for example.
- I'm not a lot into self-promotion (but I'm happy that Brynn included them into the list at her forum).
Regards, Maren
Hi Roy, Sylvain, Maren and all, I think the general philosophy about which tutorials to include on the Tutorials page, is not to have many 3rd party tutorials. In general, the project wants to avoid using a lot of bitrot-able links. I think there are only 4 or 5 third party links on that page, and I would hesitate to put more. On my site, Inkscape Community (http://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php) I've curated what I think are all the best tutorials around the internet. (I review and update all the links twice each year.) I'll be more than happy to review the tutorials, and potentially include them on that page. Are you willing to receive tips for improving them? Or are you just making them available as is? Recently I had the idea to use my list of known tutorials in much the same way we're using the list of extensions I've made. (https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-web/+bug/1580783) I made a new bug report as a proposal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-web/+bug/1603669. Briefly, this will be an attempt to have as many tutorials as possible, available for download (or just viewing) on the website. Of course, Roy would be welcome to upload those tutorials already! The first step is to register an account for the website, and then it should be relatively easy to figure out from there. Although we'll be glad to help, if you get stuck. I don't have the registration link available, but it should be readily visible when you visit the website: https://inkscape.org/ Or maybe someone else has it handy?
All best, brynn
-------------------------------------------------- From: <maren@...68...> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 3:55 PM To: "Sylvain Chiron" <chironsylvain@...102...> Cc: inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] Yet another tutorial for Inkscape
Hi Roy, Brynn and Sylvain,
Maybe we could include: https://roy-torley.github.io/Inkscape_Tutorial/Inkscape_Tutorial_Contents.ht... in the Tutorial list page: https://inkscape.org/en/learn/tutorials/ But I don't know the policy for including tutorials there.
- They need to be good :) and useful for many people. I can't currently
take a close look at Roy's tuts, but if Sylvain and Brynn agree that these are nice, then, of course, they can be included. Or, maybe, they could be uploaded into the 'Tutorials' section of the gallery, even as links only - that would allow Roy to change and update the info about his tutorials himself and to tag them, to add a licence, etc.
Maren's tutorials seem not to be included for example.
- I'm not a lot into self-promotion (but I'm happy that Brynn included
them into the list at her forum).
Regards, Maren
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
participants (3)
-
unknown＠example.com -
Brynn -
Sylvain Chiron